In retrospect....

There wouldnt be much point - I took 21 courses out of who knows how many options. The odds that mine are the same you'd want are slim, and on top of that, there's no guarantee that the same professors are teaching the same courses anymore (I can think of at least 2 that I took who I know have moved on to other places). That said, its not hard to find out who is well respected. Schraeger and Bester are classics known for their impressive courses. Kevin Murphy is considered the most bad!@(# econ professor there - and with good reason - his course demands approximately 16 hours a week of study when most courses average 4. Those who take him cry like schoolgirls during the course and then feel like hardened men when done. It's not for the faint of heart, but if you want to learn from "the best", his class would be hte generally accepted answer. Richard Thaler is also incredibly well known as the father of behavioral economics. In my personal opinion, his research is more impressive than his class, but I am in the minority there - most people love it. Steven Kaplan is probably the most sought after PE professor, and I'm told he's a hardliner... cell phone goes off in class, get ready to get thrown out. Rajan and Zingales are both well known for their respective fields, if those interest you. Kevin Rock teaches a number of advanced finance courses - cases in financial management is probably his most famous and is heavily in demand by those interested in banking jobs. Its a tough class for those without a banking background - and the only class I took that I didn't get an A in.




You probably do have access if you have a cnetid. Try to find them and try again. That said, don't expect too much. You'll see a score of 1 to 4 on a few dimensions. Pay attention to anything lower than a 3, and pay particular attention to the distributions. Most classes have a distro you'd expect: a few 1's (people pissed off at life), a few 2's (mad for some reason), a few 3's, a lot of 4's and a few 5's. The ones to watch out for are the ones with oddball distros: lots of 1's and lots of 4's. In my experience those classes are trouble.

Dont sweat this stuff, you'll figure it all out quite quickly.



A noble offer, but you won't. Life will take over and this site will be the last thing on your mind.

Thanks Rhyme, this is all very helpful. And hey you're still on here posting reviews so let's give him the benefit of the doubt

This is good advice. Like riverripper, I've been shocked by the number of people looking to leave their firms. To be fair, I was one of those (and I've since left) largely because I was sold what I thought was a bag of goods in recruiting and the real job didnt come close to living up to the real thing. It wasn't money in my case -- just the lesser of a few options and the only job offer I had that didn't require me to move or to go back to consulting (which I had no interest in doing) - but after a year at that gig (actually after about 2 weeks) it was clear to me that it wasn't a fit. They (recruiters) know how to market to MBAs... I had dinner with the CFO and CEO of a company that employes over 50,000 people - and yet, when the rubber met the road, the job lacked responsibility, challenge and intellectual rigor.

Some of my friends who chased money are happy - some are just wired for the 100 hour week - others are miserable beyond compare. A "sorta friend" of mine who I ran into while visiting London told me he was making $100K ish base, plus a $50K sign on, plus another $100K bonus on top of that and he was unhappy beyond belief. First class was empty and I got him bumped up - we spent the next 10 hours catching up. A year later he called to tell me he was back in town, had quit, was making half what he had been and was a million times happier. Good for him I say.

I've since gone to a non-traditional firm myself (they dont come to campus) and I couldn't be happier. I may not be making quite as much as some of my peers, but I've got everything I need: a comfortable single family home to raise my family in, a nice backyard i can spend years fighting weeds in, a interesting job, a loving wife, and I'm home by six.

The broader point riverripper makes is a good one: the 'menu' of options presented at MBA programs is woefully small when one stops to consider all the opportunities that are out there. And if you step away from either brand or money for a moment, and really think about what you would want to do, the world opens up.

Haha, add me to the list of people who quit their first post-MBA job less than a year after starting it. I went to Kellogg fully expecting to pursue a non-traditional route but fell victim to the consulting sway and eventually took that path.

Worst idea ever.

After a waste of 7 months I'm back at a non-traditional company doing work that is actually interesting and meaningful to me (with a small pay raise to boot). Just yesterday I was at home after work cooking dinner (something that wouldn't be possible if I were still a consultant) and somehow the thought came to my mind about how much incredibly happier I am now that I've prioritized an industry, type of role, company and especially company culture that really appeal to me.

Moral of my story: The recruiters and practitioners at the firm I joined duped me. Only rely on the people you trust the most when evaluating a company.

In terms of finding non-traditional opportunities, I think it's mostly about identifying an industry or function and doing as much research as possible on it. Look for industry groups and see who the members are. Look for conferences and exhibitions and see what companies are attending / presenting. Sign up for 10 different LinkedIn or Doostang job search emails and do a quick internet review on each interesting-looking company. Do general LinkedIn searches. Lots of ways but it takes (easy) leg-work. Triangulate that with your school's alumni database and LinkedIn and start to reach out to people that work at your target companies.

In terms of evaluating them, that's a toughie. I think half of it is gut feel (I did not listen to my gut enough when doing on-campus recruiting). The other half is tough. Grill your interviewers (obviously with finesse and tact). Google the company extensively for bad reviews from employees and customers (keeping in mind that most internet reviewers are nutjobs). But mostly try to find about 5 people that you really, really trust to give you their perspective.

Also, as someone mentioned earlier, when you recruit on campus it can be up to a year or more sometimes before you actually join. That makes it hard to define your specific role (consulting is obviously even more ambiguous). When you join just shortly after recruiting, which is more common in non-traditional paths, you can work more to really clarify the types of things you will be doing, especially in the near-term. I joined my 2nd post-MBA company knowing exactly what I would be working on for the first 6 months and a pretty good idea for the first 12-18 months.

When I think of my 5-6 closest alumni friends, the 2 that are happiest with their jobs went the non-traditional, not on-campus route.

Great post!!

Question for you (or anyone else) about rankings:

You said they don't really matter in the end, however, I've been struggling with this question and wonder which way I should go:

Pepperdine MBA vs. UCLA MBA

I'm looking at the fully-employed programs at both schools. Under normal circumstances, it would be a no-brainer for me (UCLA!). However, I have the opportunity to complete my MBA at Pepperdine 18 months earlier and with $60,000 savings over UCLA FEMBA.

If I was younger, this decision would be much easier (UCLA!), however, I will be close to 39 years old (!!) when I enter either program. So I am unsure if a degree from UCLA would give me as much benefit over a Pepperdine degree (job-wise) as it would for a much younger candidate.

Any thoughts?

But mostly try to find about 5 people that you really, really trust to give you their perspective.

I imagine its obvious but they are drinking the koolaid and going to be dissapointed. That simply isn't true. I saw a bunch of Bain consultants spend MONTHS trying to put a $ value on the "Brand" of my prior company. I mean, literally MONTHS on that one piece of work. Strategic? Maybe .... I dont know. Meaningful? Not really. So at the end of this project they present a hundred page deck that effectively concludes that company X has $100M in more "brand equity" than company Y. This wasn't rocket science: start with each firms valuation, adjust for as many things as you can - size, geography, etc... and whatever you can't explain is "brand". They fancied it up with some complicated math and made up metrics, if the industry standard was to use X they would use X+A+2B+3C and then spend 30 pages backing up why that might yield a slightly better figure than just using X. A MCK team I ran into not long ago was working on a valuation model for spare parts. Seriously. Important? Yes, it was used in negotiations in the sale of certain assets, but strategic stuff thats really impactful? No.

I dont have a lot to add to your question but I thought I'd share one anecdote: I recall a story told by one of our professors that went something like this: Guy gets hired to be a assistant brand manager at a large CPG, and is placed in charge of some toothpaste. But not the entire toothpaste product. Just the travel sized one. And not the whole tube, just the lettering. But not the logo, and not the font, but the coloring and text underneath. In a typical MBA fashion, guy comes in and suggests that the right strategy is to complete an LBO of their next biggest competitor, sell off the pieces and own the market.....

Brand marketing is one of those things that seems really rewarding when you reach a certain point in the career - true P&L ownership, etc. In the short term it sounds a bit less exciting (to me personally). The pay is also weaker than most careers (early on anyway), but the work life balance is considered very good. The roles tend to appeal to those interested in general management because they generally offer the opportunity to work on everything from sourcing/procurement, marketing, legal, finance, pricing, etc. It's a multidisciplinary job.