how important are rankings?

Thanks for the feedback! Actually I'm not from Ohio, but the DC area. . . so no, I don't plan on settling in OH.

In terms of the joint degree, I was hoping to get good grades in my MBA program to help offset my lower undergrad GPA - that's why I wasn't planning on applying to both B-school and law school at the same time. . . however, the more I read, the more it seems law schools don't really consider graduate GPAs?

Thanks for your response!
I was pretty sure I could reach the high 600 - 700 mark on the GMAT. During my first practice exam, I scored a 630, so I figured with the proper studying, I could work my way up. The problem is my undergrad GPA, which is just shy of a 2.7. This is why I'm not thinking about applying to law school right away, since they place a heavier emphasis on the undergrad GPA than do b-schools.
I'm not really sure what my chances would be at other b-schools. I have great and varied work experience, including a unique stint that I know none of the applicants will have had, my essays tend to be stellar, along with interviews. . . however, there's no guarantee I'll score that 700 if I take the GMAT a second time, and my undergrad GPA won't change. . .

I just don't want it to be a year from, and being in the same place: accepted only by a school around 50 and above.

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Thanks, yes I have. I would love to attend Georgetown! But I really don't know where I'd stand. . . like I said I think I can reach a high 600 GMAT score, but it's yet to be done. Also, I seriously slacked off in undergrad and my GPA is just shy of 2.7. . . not sure if this makes me a strong candidate for the G-town b-school?
However, I know they place a lot of emphasis on a global perspective and community service - both of which I have a great deal of.

I dont know much about law school apps, just that the process is VERY numbers based.

But, if gaining an MBA doesnt help get you into the law school of your dreams, and you want to fall back on getting a great job in the DC area, there are many school that would make that journy a bit easier.

I'd take it again, if you can even just get above the 650 mark you'd have a shot at georgetown and maryland. Over 700, who knows? I wouldnt settle during this process.

<--- I took the gmat 3 times, because I knew I could do better.

with a low undergrad GPA, its always possible to sign up for a few summer classes (especially if you werent a business undergrad) try something quant heavy, and work your ass off for an A, just prove that you can handle the curriculum.

A year from now, you may be in the same situation... BUT, if you are, atleast you wont wonder "what if?".

This is true - thank you. I feel like I'm playing roulette with my life. . .
so basically, getting an MBA in two years versus three years, won't be worth it if it means I could have attended a better ranked institution?

The easy way to understand law school admissions is to know that they are driven almost entirely by the US News rankings. Since those only include undergrad GPA as a factor, the schools don't really look at grad GPA.

Business school admissions are much more focused on work experience and leadership, with grades and test scores as just a check that you can handle the workload.

Sounds like you really want to go to law school rather than business school, but you want to use the MBA to leverage and give yourself a leg up to get into a better law school because of your GPA.

The law school admissions process appears to be more numbers driven than business schools because if you see some of the grids from LSAC's guide to law schools, certain numbers practically guarantee admission, and others do not. It is also clear that low GPA's for law school (3.3 and below) make it nearly impossible to get into Top 40 law schools, much less the coveted "T-14" tier:

Yale, Harvard, Stanford, NYU, Columbia, Chicago, UVA, Berkeley, Michigan, Penn, Duke, Northwestern, Cornell, Georgetown

, unless you score close to 170 (top 3%ile on the LSAT) for the schools around the Top 40, and definitely above that for the schools I listed above. Granted, law school is having some tough times right now getting students due to the scamblogs, and the general climate around big law firms (right now, NY firm Dewey and LeBouef is basically about to go under). However, I don't anticipate seeing the standards drop that much if at all for the T-14 schools, and marginally for most of the rest of the Top 40.

With B Schools, especially full time, your numbers will earn you an interview, but after that you still have to sell yourself more.

Even LOR's may have to be different. Business school wants only professional letters. Law schools want your professors, unless you are at least five years out of college and you're about there now, so they'd accept your boss' rec too.

And with undergrad grades, well, you're farther out than most law applicants presumably so grades may not count so much, but they still will count heavily, and you aren't necessarily getting to a better school because of work experience.

If you do a JD/MBA, you are going to have to apply to both schools in order to do such a program, but what side of the degree do you want more, and if you only had to pick one degree, what would it be?

Hope this helps. Good luck!

exactly, look at it this way, georgetown's average salary (base + bonus) coming out is 111K, Case Western is 81K. Add in the fact that you'll be returning to DC after, georgetown (or something on that level) holds a bit more clout on a resume along with a much better network.

The letters MBA dont mean as much as they used to, simply having those letters wont get you a great job BUT better ranked schools are perceived by recruiters as turning out better potential employees, so, you should have more options coming out of a higher ranked school. On top of that, outside of maybe the top ten, the majority of students who get an mba will stay within a close metro area of the program. With the non M7 or top 10s, the closer you stay to the school, the bigger your alumni network will be.

You are right that GULC and MSB offer part time programs, but a part time student at either GULC or Georgetown Evening MBA can't get a dual or joint degree. Also, GULC is not located in Georgetown's campus, but rather four or five blocks from the Capitol. I believe it may be possible at GW Law/GW MBA because there is a flex MBA program but if such a program were done, it's like five years long, considering that a full time JD/MBA is four years at both schools. You are also right that not many law schools offer part time programs. In addition, part time law school options are generally only available at lower ranked schools. Fortunately in DC, virtually every program does except Howard. Georgetown is the only T-14 school with a part time school, and it is due to tradition (it was founded as a part time school). GW also has a part time school and is in the Top 20. Part time programs are generally unheard of for most prestigious schools, but the numbers aren't too far off either from the full time averages though they are a little lower than the full time numbers.

There is also a big difference in class time between a part time law student and a typical evening MBA student. A GULC/GW Law/American, etc. part time student would have to go to class four days a week for three hours a day and take 10-12 credit hours a semester (fall and spring), and probably have to take a summer class. This may all be on top of a full time job. A Georgetown/GW MBA evening student typically has class two times a week for about three hours a day and takes 6 hours a semester in a cohort format. It's a lot of work either way, but part time law is essentially full time law at night and you can pretty much kiss your life goodbye during the weekdays.

As someone who's been accepted to both a top 10 law school (UVA) and a top 10 b-school 2 years apart (will be attending this fall) and who considered doing a JD/MBA. Here's my take.

Your 2.7 GPA precludes you from almost any T14 law school unless you get a ridiculous LSAT score (think 174+) The LSAT is more difficult than the GMAT by a factor of 10 (IMO), so judging by your GMAT score I'd say its hghly unlikely you'll get near 174 on the lsat. As far as law school.....its ALL about prestige. If you don't have a degree from a T14 (and with top grades) you'll struggle getting a law job (or any job). Which brings us to the MBA.

If you can't get into a T14 law school (and get good grades)., you'll have to rely on your MBA to land a well paying job. But there seems to be some stigma attached to JD/MBA,...it can be interpreted as having a lack of focus. Which brings us to conclusion number 1: What will the ROI for the JD portion of your education be? It won't help you get a job but you'll pay for it. Therefore, in your case, DON'T DO A JD/MBA. If you really want to be a lawyer,..forget the MBA and concentrate on smashing the LSAT,..which will be more of a longshot than getting a 700 on the GMAT.

So the final choice is getting ONLY an MBA. This seems to be the most prudent option for you. However, I think its a good idea to study for the GMAT and retake,... with your GPA you actually still have a chance to get into a good school (Top 20). You're only 27, age is not a problem yet. I applied to B-school when I was 29 and will be matriculating at age 30.

PS...even though I got into a great law school,...I was scared off by the horror stories about the legal job market and the nature of law school. I advise you to do your due diligience regarding law school. It does not seem to be a happy experience. Whereas most people seem to enjoy their B-school years. Thats an important factor to consider.

You basically corroborated with some of what I wrote minus actually recommending anything. But UVA Law is definitely solidly in that elite T-14 tier and I guess it says something when you're turning it down due to the legal market.

Either way, it is true that class ranking within law school, especially the first year is what determines job prospects for a student. At most schools, classes are also bell curved in such a way so that it's possible that students could do real well on their exams in and of themselves, yet end up with C's because most of the rest of the class just managed to do even better on an exam. Now that has gotta suck.

Rankings are somewhat important because they generally reflect factors that actually matter, like employment opportunities, faculty quality, etc. That said, no ranking is a perfect reflection for any individual (or employer). You can start with the rankings, but then you need to figure out what is best for your eductaion, your career, your personal life and your finances. Depending on your goals, rankings may have little relevance. Even setting aside all the really unique factors, the idea that you can force rank schools in general is misguided. I recommend using rankings as a starting point for your research and nothing more.

Thanks for the feedback!

Thanks - I'll certainly consider this!
Do you know if it's necessary to travel to the schools you're applying to? When I look at it that way, I feel I should just take what's in hand. . . versus spending a year brown nosing and traveling across the country just to visit schools so I can write in a sentence in my essays about how much I enjoyed Professor X's class.

I actually did make a recommendation,..read carefully, it's in there

Also, your point about how law school grading works is a major reason I decided against going to law school. For starters,...I'm not a fan of having your entire grade decided on the basis of a single exam. That seems absurd on many levels. When you add the forced grading curve it effectively means you lose a great deal of control over how you perform. You can do everything right and still fall below the median. That was a huge turnoff for me. Although I know I'm smart, UVA students average 3.7 GPAs and 172 on the LSAT. So I realized my brains wouldn't neccesarily gaurantee me a place above median. Sometimes a little humility can save you from disaster.

First, congratulations to you. It must be nice to have been accepted into the top 10 community for both business and law.

I don't believe in the lack of focus stigma. . . I see nothing wrong with having dual degrees - especially when they complement each other.

In terms of the LSAT, I took a practice exam a few years ago. I don't recall my overall score, but I do remember scoring 100% in the logic games section with time remaining. Also, I'm pretty strong in the verbal section of the GMAT, and I know some of the types of questions are similar. So overall, I'm not worried about the LSAT -just my undergrad GPA as you know. It almost seems more prudent to skip the MBA and get a second undergrad degree just so I can get the 4.0 I need to impress law schools. . .

This brings me back to my undergrad GPA. . . you believe that with a 2.6-2.7 I still have a good shot at a top 20?

Thanks for your feedback.