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Re: 620->750 | African Engineer Blessed by Grace + 28 Months [#permalink]
What a debrief! What a long story!
Congrats!
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Re: 620->750 | African Engineer Blessed by Grace + 28 Months [#permalink]
Congratulations TooLong150,
TooLong150 post is too long................... :wink: just kidding.
You deserve the success very much after all this pain and perseverance.
All the best for your applications.
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Re: 620->750 | African Engineer Blessed by Grace + 28 Months [#permalink]
Congratulation to your great score after such great efforts.
Great debrief!

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Re: 620->750 | African Engineer Blessed by Grace + 28 Months [#permalink]
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Congrats.

Originally posted by Wan915 on 23 Feb 2016, 19:17.
Last edited by Wan915 on 14 Dec 2017, 20:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 620->750 | African Engineer Blessed by Grace + 28 Months [#permalink]
Amazing debrief! As a fellow African and Christian, this was definitely encouraging and detailed! I am a bit curious - how many hours did you study daily?

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Re: 620->750 | African Engineer Blessed by Grace + 28 Months [#permalink]
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shasadou wrote:
great debrief! thanks. as for verbal part of Gc u are absolutely right - i was amazed by the depth and quality of the solutions on LR questions.

btw i have solved so far 5 tests - that is about 100 questions as I skipped some non-gmat ones. one question to u: how many LR questions had you solved before you realized that your CR knoledge is solid. CR 51 is really an incredible thing - looks like you nailed every question - the hardest ones. can you please tell what is your average time on CR questions per ESR? And what type of questions the GMAT was throiwing to you annd at what sequence by type? can you please share more of your tips on tackling CR after you have gained som muc experience in LR LSAT?

Thanks


shasadou, please see below.

Honestly, that CR score is not representative of my CR ability; it was a miracle. My true CR level is most likely between 38-41. In fact on the last exam that I took (01/15/16), my CR level was a 38. I was surprised at the CR 51, because I didn't see any truly hard CR questions when I took the exam on that date. The below is all I remember regarding CR on 12/28/15:
* 2 easy ASU
* 1 easy FLAW
* No INFER/BoldFace/EVA/Parallel Reasoning or Except questions
* Many STR/WEAK questions
* Arguments were getting shorter as the exam progressed.

What most likely happened is that I got a lot of early questions correct, so I had the ability to get a lot of hard questions and answer them correctly. You must remember that what is hard in the GMAT's eyes might be easy for you.

Doing LSAT questions strengthens your ability to own FLAW and ASU questions, because unlike the frequency of these question types on the GMAT, the frequency of these question types, especially the FLAW question type, is much higher on the LSAT.

I finally got a good grip of CR after doing 500 LSAT LR questions (The Next 10 Actual Official LSAT PREPTESTS (29-38) twice and 10 New Actual, Official LSAT PREPTESTS (52-61) once) in addition to the 440 CR questions that I took and retook.

My CR tips are below:

GENERAL
1) Read the question.
2) Read the statements carefully.
3) Understand line of reasoning/Think through argument.
4) Eliminate irrelevant answers.

INFER
1) Find answer that must be true given the statements
1A) It must not contradict the statements.
1B) It can be a summary of the statements.

ASU
1) Read the argument carefully and note any subtle shifts, which can include any of the following.
1A) Something mentioned in the premise, but not in the conclusion.
1B) Term Shifts
2) Focus on the conclusion.
3) Negate choices and pick the choice that greatly weakens the argument.

WEAK/STR
1) Focus on the conclusion.
2) Predict an answer to get my brain thinking.
3) Pick the choice that best WEAK/STR the conclusion.

PDOX
1) Understand the paradox.
2) Eliminate choices that expand or don't address the paradox.

EVA
1) Pick a choice that strengthens conclusion depending on whether the answer to the question is Y/N and that weakens the conclusion if the answer
to the question is opposite the answer that strengthens the conclusion.

FLAW
1) Pick a mistake that the argument makes AND that weakens the argument.

BF
1) Find the conclusion and understand how each statement in the argument relates to it.
2) Eliminate choices that don't accurately describe the statements.



CR Timing Per ESR
Date______Verbal Score______CR Score__CR Timing (min)
09/14/11_______31____________ESR NA______ ESR NA

09/16/14_______37____________40___________2.49

11/08/14_______28____________17___________2.02

12/20/14_______34____________37___________2.07

08/08/15_______36____________41___________1.67

08/28/15_______35____________25___________2.25

12/28/15_______42____________51___________1.88

01/15/16_______39____________38___________1.84
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Re: 620->750 | African Engineer Blessed by Grace + 28 Months [#permalink]
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DebbieN1989 wrote:
Amazing debrief! As a fellow African and Christian, this was definitely encouraging and detailed! I am a bit curious - how many hours did you study daily?

Posted from my mobile device

DebbieN1989, 2 hours each day on weekdays when work permitted and 6 hours each day on weekends. By the way, I'm glad that this encouraged you. If it is Jesus' will for you to get an MBA, keep on trusting Him and never give up; He'll make it happen! However, I urge you to not place too much emphasis on the GMAT. Focus on taking initiative at work or in your volunteer work and fostering relationships with potential references, who can speak highly of you. Remember that schools look at applicants holistically. :)
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Re: 620->750 | African Engineer Blessed by Grace + 28 Months [#permalink]
Hey TooLong150,
I am really intrigued about the LSAT material you used. Can you elaborate further on which specific book, website, or prep company you used?
Did it contain explanations to questions, correct?
Lastly, what LSAT parts resemble more the GMAT and which do you think they should be omitted?

It is true that we don´t have as many official Verbal questions as we´d like and this could help to solve the problem.

Thanks!
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Re: 620->750 | African Engineer Blessed by Grace + 28 Months [#permalink]
Wonderful debrief and congratulations on your great score. I am not even done reading it but wanted to congratulate you before I forget. :lol:
What you have accomplished is phenomenal.

I do have to "sort of" disagree with point 1. GMAT is unfortunately a big deal for getting into a good program. I agree that for the real business world it may not be... but unfortunately ALL business school place a very important emphasis on this silly standardized test because it is the only "standard comparison" they have.
I used to think that it's not all that important as long as you have a stellar GPA, great letters of recommendations and some decent work experience. All these things apply to me.... but I just can't get my act together and score a good result on the GMAT which is extremely frustrating for me. I know I am smart, I know I am persistent and driven and all that.... but for whatever reason I can't score well on the GMAT.

I worked my butt off for a perfect GPA in undergraduate and graduate school and honestly I don't know too many people who graduated with a 4.0 from undergraduate school. The imposter syndrome in me says that maybe I was just lucky with my grades and now the GMAT is telling the truth about my real intellectual capabilities (or flaws for that matter) .... It's pretty damn hard NOT to take a low GMAT score personal.

I am going back to read the rest of your post now for more motivation.

Great job!
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Re: 620->750 | African Engineer Blessed by Grace + 28 Months [#permalink]
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wizzard wrote:
Hey TooLong150,
I am really intrigued about the LSAT material you used. Can you elaborate further on which specific book, website, or prep company you used?
Did it contain explanations to questions, correct?
Lastly, what LSAT parts resemble more the GMAT and which do you think they should be omitted?

It is true that we don´t have as many official Verbal questions as we´d like and this could help to solve the problem.

Thanks!


wizzard, at the risk of sounding rude, all of your questions except for prep company part of the first question and the last question are answered in section 6, the Resources section, specifically where I talk about the LSAT materials. I'll answer the unanswered questions here.

I didn't use a prep company for the LSAT; I just used the Manhattan LSAT forum (https://www.manhattanprep.com/lsat/forums/) mentioned in the LSAT materials section of the debrief and the LSAT Hacks site written by Graeme Blake (https://lsathacks.com/) for explanations of each question. The Resources section describes which tests have explanations by these free resources.

Below are the question types on the LSAT that most resemble those on the GMAT. I don't remember all of the question types, so this is not necessarily an exhaustive list, but the rule is that if you see the question type in the analogous GMAT section, it is relevant to the GMAT; If you don't, it is not relevant

The LSAT RC completely resembles the GMAT RC for the following question types: Weaken, Strengthen, Necessary Assumption, Infer (suggests, must be true), According to the Passage.
The LSAT LR completely resembles the GMAT CR for the following question types: Weaken, Strengthen, Evaluate the Argument, Necessary Assumption, Infer, Conclusion, Determine The Role (easier version of bold face), Method of Reasoning, Paradox, Flaw, and Parallel Reasoning. Ignore all arguments that are based on necessary/sufficient logic; the GMAT doesn't test this.
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Re: 620->750 | African Engineer Blessed by Grace + 28 Months [#permalink]
rajivsage1 wrote:
Congrats. To be quite honest, though, you should have taken the high road and left the subtle judgemental remarks by the wayside. You should steer clear from questioning anyone's motives for choosing to pursue an MBA. Furthermore, had you given particular effort to understand the the intent behind the critical reasoning section of the exam, you would have recognized that it is some of your ill conceived logic that the exam serves to train us away from. Because one's motive for an MBA is for her parents to live vicariously through her pursuits, in no way permits us to draw the conclusion that she will not work just as hard as the other guy. Perhaps this person is driven to succeed by the joy that this endeavor brings to her parents. People are different, not everyone gets an MBA for the same reason and you should not be so generous as to deal your opinions after a series of misplaced assumptions and unneeded stereotypes. Also - - what's up with the heavy beating on social media and Tv? I work for a large multinational and I'm pretty sure my regional President watches TV and uses social media. In fact, one time I kicked back late at the office for no good reason and he was there too, we sat and watched TV in the kitchen :) Yes we were not watching Keeping up with Kim K, but in no way should you go preaching that as future CEOs we will not have time to LIVE a little.. Come on buddy, I expected better. I didn't read in detail everything in your post, but did you miss the memo that you should treat your approach to the GMAT the same as you would an investment option. After the second attempt of 690, did you really need to go further? The exam/algorithm itself has a standard error of +/- 30 points. You invested so much more with a very limited return. How will this be viewed by an admissions committee? You are already an URM, wouldn't you have been just fine with a 690?


rajivsage1, thanks for your remarks and your best wishes. My opinions stated above will not be shared by everybody, and I understand that. I will clarify that I see nothing wrong with social media. It is an awesome tool to connect with people over the world. I do need to say that a lot of what I mentioned was generally in the context of studying. A person can't spend an hour on social media every day (including weekdays) and expect to own the GMAT. The GMAT needs that time, and social media should take the backseat. Of course, to prevent burnout, a person should relax as I said. This can include taking an entire weekend every month to unwind by doing whatever helps that person unwind.

My remarks about reasons for pursuing an MBA are needed, because they will prevent people who are pursuing an MBA for shallow reasons from embarking on a path that will only leave them miserable and will encourage those who are pursing an MBA for strong and deep reasons. If I were pursing an MBA for shallow reasons especially if I truly did not want to seek one, I definitely would want someone to tell me this to give me one last chance to turn away from a wasted 2 years (excluding the application cycle and the stress involved with that).

Regarding TV, below are three successful people, who don't watch TV (Gates cooled down on this post-MSFT).

References:
Bill Gates:
Most of his life: https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/communi ... -tv.39682/
Qualified (late in his life): https://twitter.com/billgates/status/396397501580066817

Mark Zuckerberg:
Search for "He doesn’t own a TV set"
https://www.mendaily.com/mark-zuckerberg ... idnt-know/

Elizabeth Holmes:
See Fact 17
https://www.inc.com/larry-kim/21-surpris ... naire.html
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GMAT 5: 750 Q49 V42
GMAT 6: 730 Q50 V39
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Re: 620->750 | African Engineer Blessed by Grace + 28 Months [#permalink]
One thing for people trying to do well on the GMAT that I wish that I was told: it doesn't matter that much. The GMAT tests how well you can do on the GMAT. It isn't that great of a predictor of academic performance at an MBA. It is mainly a beauty contest and is used to help business schools improve rankings. This is the same with GPAs. If you think about it, a high GPA does not really tell much about intellectual curiosity. You could have changed since college and become more focused. What matters most is your experience. Do something exceptional such as writing a book, launching a new division at work, creating a great product, etc. Companies hire you based on achievements not GMAT scores. Also, the more you achieve, the more likely a school is to overlook your lower GMAT score.
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Re: 620->750 | African Engineer Blessed by Grace + 28 Months [#permalink]
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