700 GMAT: Retake? Give up on Wharton?

wharton is going to be very tough with a 710 assuming you're a white/asian/indian male without some extraordinary story. given your score was in line with your practices, it will likely be tough to significantly boost your score unless you have some sort of breakthrough over the next few weeks. Having said that, there's no downside in still applying if you have the time/effort to spend on the app. I would probably diversify a bit and add some additional schools such as darden, ross, fuqua, anderson. You could also just roll the dice with Wharton, CBS, Tuck, SOM round 1 and plan on applying to some lower ranked schools in round 2 if it doesn't work out. Best of luck.

Thanks. One problem is that I don't think I have the time to effectively study for the GMAT, take it again in September, and write R1 essays/applications all at once. I could take the risk and apply in R1 with the 700 or retake the GMAT and apply in R2. Right now I'm leaning towards the latter.

I think getting a 720 is realistic for me.

For further background info, I had a 3.3 GPA as math major (major GPA 3.6; last two-year GPA 3.7), and then got an MS in Statistics immediately following undergrad. I have over 3 years of full-time WE post-master's, along with graduate teaching (UVA business undergrads), and summer/winter work every year through college/grad school. I've also spoken to a manager and a director at work who would both be glad to give me stellar recommendations. Tons of leadership and extracurriculars I can speak to... 26 y/o white American male.

I realize the list is a little ambitious, but I want to stay in the Northeast, and all of the Top-15 NE programs have fairly similar GPA/GMAT averages (although Johnson is a little lower for both). I guess my best option at this point is to retake.

I think the only program that would draw me out of the Northeast is Darden. I would probably enjoy that program, though I'm already a UVA alum and prefer to see something new. (I think UCLA is far too liberal for me... I don't think I'd be happy there. ).

have you spoken to an MBA consultant? maybe CriticalSquare or fxMBAconsulting can chime in here

I'll tell you what's unlucky- scoring a 48 M 40 V and getting a 710. That would be a 720 in any other month. I agree with the others, that Wharton is ambitious but I'm most likely going to apply (with a lower than average gpa). Wharton is only one essay so I'd probably do it last. If you feel that taking the gmat wont hurt the quality of your other school essays then take the gmat again. Thats my plan.

Given your numbers are an exact match for Johnson's medians (3.3, 700), maybe tossing a round 1 app to Johnson while studying for a retake would be manageable. Then, if your retake goes well, Johnson turns into your safer match/safety while the other schools become match/managable reaches. This of course predicates you having any interest in attending Johnson at all.

I don't really have much interest in Johnson... it seems to place people well in banking/finance related careers, but not so much for the areas I'm interested in. My current stats also match closely to Darden, and that program is a better fit for me.

I think I've decided the best thing to do is to apply in R2. I don't see any reason not to at this point. The extra time helps with many aspects:

1) I can visit programs in the fall before I apply.
2) Have more time to write essays/applications.
3) See if I can get another promotion.
4) Retake the GMAT in a few months and hopefully push that up to at least 720.
5) Apply to five schools in R2: Wharton, SOM, CBS, Tuck, and Darden.

Any reason why R1 would be better?

-R1 tends to have more slots in general, this means you're more likely to receive admissions or waitlist (instead of outright reject) than someone from R2.
-This also goes for scholarship. Since the school has more scholarship funds in R1 than R2, they're more likely to be more generous and would give larger $$$ to more people.
-If accepted, you'll get more time to choose which schools you'd want to end up. You can also use this as a safety net to apply to other schools you may not have considered during R1 without penalizing yourself by applying in R3 or reapplying next year.
-R1 would be better if you think you cannot improve your overall profile anymore than what other applicant would be able to do between R1 & R2 deadlines. Example, if you think you can increase your profile by 10 points while many other applicants can increase it by 20 points, you might be better off applying in R1 since the (hypothetical aggregated) score gap would put you at a disadvantage.

Please note that this doesn't apply to all the schools so take this with a grain of salt.

Thanks. I was under the impression that R1 and R2 admissions standards are very similar (the only one I definitely want to avoid is R3). At Tuck and SOM, the acceptance rates are about the same (even EA at Tuck is no better!). The only program that has a higher acceptance rate in R1 is Wharton, but that may be because Wharton accepts a lot financial analysts/consultants who have their acts together early (i.e. it may be a stronger pool in R1). As it stands now, I think I have next to no chance at Wharton, so I don't think it's worth it to apply unless I get at least a 720.

CBS has rolling admissions, so I can do that one whenever I retake the GMAT / get promoted / improve my application. Financial packages are award through the beginning of January or so.

R1 is always better for the reasons mentioned above. Also, more people apply in R2 which means there is more competition for fewer slots, plus you will have to compete with the R1 waitlist.

Here's a different point of view: after 700, 20 more points on the GMAT won't help you that much. 50? Of course. But 20? Doubtful.

You say you have stellar recommendations and tons of extracurriculars to talk about. Take a chance and apply on R1. There is a clear advantage over R2.

Back to a question I raised earlier: could I apply in R1 and then update my application with a new GMAT score? For example, submit applications in September, retake the GMAT in October, and tell admissions the new score?

///EDIT/// I thought fewer people applied in R2? That's why the application window is shorter - it takes less time to review fewer candidates.

Hey there jz4analytics,

Figured we'd hop into the fray with our $0.02! First off, we know the GMAT scores can sometimes be a bummer but a 700 is a solid base. It starts with a "7" and that's a plus in anyone's book. It's a good foundation to build from if you do decide to retake the exam and shoot for a higher score.

That said, to a few of your specific questions in this thread:

1) You COULD potentially provide a school with a revised score after the deadline but there is no guarantee they will accept it. Every school has a stated policy that they won't, but eh, we all know how those go. Can you imagine what would happen if they said they did? That said, they usually don't and it's difficult to tell if they will or won't. It isn't specific to a school and it varies by client. We've had clients do it successfully where other clients have failed to get a new score considered at the very same school. Depends on the day, the position of the stars, who knows. It isn't a safe bet.

2) As to whether 20 points will trump the R1 advantage...that's really hard to say. There is no clear cut answer here because we're on the margin splitting hairs. Generally speaking, as long as you're not overrepresented in any way, then applying in R1 or R2 doesn't matter - you pick when YOU will be ready. If you're a strategy consultant or a banker, then yes, R2 probably isn't the way to go. Or if you're an international applicant from India, eh, go R1. But 20 points could make all the difference depending on the specifics of your profile. Or...it could move the needle not. It's hard to say. But we do disagree that a 700 and a 720 are viewed similarly enough that the delta could be ignored.

Hope this helps!

Thanks! This is helpful.

I'm a statistician doing marketing / big data analytics. I want to switch from marketing analytics to management in something that more directly helps people (i.e. healthcare or social enterprise). I plan on targeting schools at their strengths, so healthcare at Wharton and Tuck, and social enterprise at SOM and CBS. I've worked with psychiatric patients before and did some grad work in biostatistics/pharmaceuticals, which I'll weave into my healthcare essays. I've also done community service and teaching, and organized athletic teams, which I'll write about for the social enterprise programs. I'd be just as happy going in either direction, so I'm framing my post-MBA goals inline with the cultures of the schools.

I know Wharton has a completely separate application for healthcare and the program takes only one cohort (roughly 70 people). That's my biggest concern about Wharton R2... the healthcare cohort might be filled up.

Ok - so that is a SUPER valid concern. Last year 50+ of the 70 seats were filled in R1 for the Wharton Healthcare program. In that particular case R1 overwhelms R2 in terms of priority.

Your background isn't particularly unique, but it isn't overrepresented so, at a high level, and with what forums will allow in terms of stellar feedback, we'd say R2 and R1 for most schools should be similar (outside of Wharton). That said, be careful with the social enterprise angle as well as the whole "helping others" narrative. Not saying helping others is bad just...be careful!

Thanks again! Useful to know. I'll write my applications now to see how much time that takes me. If I can get them (or at least, Wharton's) done in a reasonable time, I may sit for the GMAT again in September. I may push for Wharton Healthcare in R1 and the rest in R2 to spread out my efforts. Again, I already have commitments from two recommenders and told them to expect mid-September deadlines, so I should be fine with that.

You're welcome - good luck!

I remember being in your position a few years ago with a nearly identical profile. I made the decision to go to b-school pretty late in the cycle, and was rushed into the GMAT and application. Will an extra 10-20 points matter all that much in the grand scheme of thing? Maybe, but probably not in the way you're hoping. Instead, I think it gives you a better shot at getting a scholarship from where you're admitted, rather than taking you off the bubble. I'd use that money to be in a place where you want to be, that gives you a great shot of doing what you want to do.

For what it's worth, I did wind up getting admission to a top program but decided in the end that Vanderbilt was the best choice (for me) when I added everything up. I was interested in health care, and I was drawn to Nashville as the health care capital, and Vandy has one of the handful of strongest programs in terms of coursework and recruiting. I chuckle when I look back and think of how I bought into the hype for so long and agonized over basically rounding errors in rankings.

Feel free to shoot me a note if you want to chat at all.