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Re: Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy go to a movie and [#permalink]
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total ways of arranging 6 ppl = 6! = 6*5*4*3*2 = 720

ways in which m&j sit together = 5!*2 = 240

ans = 720 - 240 = 480
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Re: Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy go to a movie and [#permalink]
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480 as well

total number of arrangements 6*5*4*3*2*1 = 720

want to count criteria we dont want

If Marcia sits in first chair, and Jan sits in 2nd chair there are 4! = 24 arrangements for the other people

Jan could also sit in first chair and Marcia in 2nd, so there are also 24 different arrangments

24+24 = 48

so we can have 1st and 2nd, 2nd and 3rd, 3rd and 4th, 4th and 5th, or 5th and 6th


therefore there are 5 ways each have 48 combinations so 48*5=240

720-240 = 480
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Re: Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy go to a movie and [#permalink]
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Variant-2.1 of this question -
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 7 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. A will not sit to the left of F and F will not sit to the left of E in how many different arrangements ?


Variant-3.1 of this question -

7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 8 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. A will not sit to the left of F in how many different arrangements ?


Variant-4.1 of this question -

7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 8 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. A will not sit to the left of F and F will not sit to the left of E in how many different arrangements ?
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Re: Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy go to a movie and [#permalink]
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Variant-1 of this question -
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F.H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 7 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. A and F will not sit next to each other in how many different arrangements ?

-->

7! - 2((7-2+1)!) = 7!-2(6!)=7(6!)-2(6!) = 5(6!) ways


Yes, that's fine. You make them sit together and subtract that out of 7!.

Variant-2 of this question -
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 7 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. A,F and E will not sit next to each other in how many different arrangements ?

7!-(3!)(7-3+1)! = 7!- 6(5!) ways

A little ambiguity here.
I would say - A, F and E will not all sit together in how many ways?
The solution is fine.
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Re: Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy go to a movie and [#permalink]
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Variant-3 of this question -
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 8 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. A and F will not sit next to each other in how many different arrangements ?

-->

8P7-2[(8-2+1)P(7-2+1)] = 8P7-2(7P6) ways = 8! - 2(7!) = 6(7!) ways

The answer is correct. An alternative approach could be this:

I will just think of the vacant seat as a person V.
So 8 people, 8 seats in 8! ways.
2 people should not be together so 8! - 2*7!

Another interesting variant could be this:
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 8 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. In how many different arrangements will there be at least one person between A and F?

Try it.


Variant-4 of this question -
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 8 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. A ,F and E will not sit next to each other in how many different arrangements ?

Correct solution. Alternative approach parallel to the one above:

The vacant spot is a person V.
Required arrangements: 8! - 3!*6!
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Re: Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy go to a movie and [#permalink]
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Variant-1.1 of this question -
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F.H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 7 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. A will not sit to the left of F in how many different arrangements ?

-->
7!/2 ways

Correct.

Variant-2.1 of this question -
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 7 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. A will not sit to the left of F and F will not sit to the left of E in how many different arrangements ?

Variant-3.1 of this question -

7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 8 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. A will not sit to the left of F in how many different arrangements ?

Variant-4.1 of this question -
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 8 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. A will not sit to the left of F and F will not sit to the left of E in how many different arrangements ?

You can apply symmetry in all these questions. Tell me how you will do it. I will confirm the answer.
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Re: Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy go to a movie and [#permalink]
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
Variant-3 of this question -
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 8 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. A and F will not sit next to each other in how many different arrangements ?

-->

8P7-2[(8-2+1)P(7-2+1)] = 8P7-2(7P6) ways = 8! - 2(7!) = 6(7!) ways

The answer is correct. An alternative approach could be this:

I will just think of the vacant seat as a person V.
So 8 people, 8 seats in 8! ways.
2 people should not be together so 8! - 2*7!

WoW - Loved this Approach --> Kudos +1
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
Another interesting variant could be this:
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 8 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. In how many different arrangements will there be at least one person between A and F?

Try it.


This is equivalent to saying 8 people sit in 8 adjacent seats with an imaginary girl Ms. X with them :P
Subtract the number of arrangements when Ms. X sits between A and F
AXF
FXA
XAF
XFA
AFX
FAX
All the above are equivalent - No person sits between A and F
So answer will be
8!-(3!)(6!) ways

Now let me apply my traditional approach and confirm this -
8P7-(3!)((8-3+1)P(7-3+1)) = 8P7-(3!)(6P5) =
8!-(3!)(6!) ways
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krishp84 wrote:
Variant-2.1 of this question -
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 7 adjacent seats in the front row of the theater. A will not sit to the left of F and F will not sit to the left of E in how many different arrangements ?

Let me post my solution -
This will be equivalent as below -

A can come to left/right of F
F can come to left/right of E
(I diagrammed, but it is time-taking to create a picture and post here)

So number of different arrangements = (1/2)(7!/2) = 7!/4 ways
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VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
Variant-3.1 of this question -
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 8 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. A will not sit to the left of F in how many different arrangements ?
This will be 8!/2 ways
or
(8P7)/2 = 8!/2 ways
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
Variant-4.1 of this question -
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 8 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. A will not sit to the left of F and F will not sit to the left of E in how many different arrangements ?
This will be (1/2)(8!/2) = 8!/4 ways
or
(1/2)(1/2)(8P7) = 8!/4 ways

Logic - combination of variant 2.1 and 3.1
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
You can apply symmetry in all these questions. Tell me how you will do it. I will confirm the answer.
I understand this is a HUGE post - But could not find another way to link all these related concepts.
Welcome to any new variant. I LOVE these puzzles.
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VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
Variant-3 of this question -
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 8 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. A and F will not sit next to each other in how many different arrangements ?

-->

I will just think of the vacant seat as a person V.
So 8 people, 8 seats in 8! ways.
2 people should not be together so 8! - 2*7!

Another interesting variant could be this:
7 people(A,B,C,D,E,F,H) go to a movie and sit next to each other in 8 adjacent seats in the front row of the theatre. In how many different arrangements will there be at least one person between A and F?

krishp84 wrote:
This is equivalent to saying 8 people sit in 8 adjacent seats with an imaginary girl Ms. X with them :P
Subtract the number of arrangements when Ms. X sits between A and F
AXF
FXA
XAF
XFA
AFX
FAX
All the above are equivalent - No person sits between A and F
So answer will be 8!-(3!)(6!) ways


This variant wants you to put at least one person between A and F. This means that all those cases where A and F are together are not acceptable and also those cases where A and F have V (or your Ms. X!) between them are not acceptable.
Number of cases where A and F are together = 2*7!
Number of cases where A and F have V between them = 2*6!
[AVF and FVA]
These are the cases that are not acceptable.
Answer should be 8! - 2*7! - 2*6! = 8! - 16*6!

Think about it another way: Compare the two questions.
One where you don't want them to be together,
the other where you don't want them to be together and you don't want the vacant spot between them.
Obviously, in the second case, the number of cases you do not want are higher.
In the first question, you subtracted a total of 2*7! arrangements i.e. 14*6! arrangements.
In the second question, you need to subtract some more. You cannot subtract 3!*6! = 6*6! arrangements only.
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krishp84 wrote:
I understand this is a HUGE post - But could not find another way to link all these related concepts.[/color]
Welcome to any new variant. I LOVE these puzzles.


Your solutions are correct.
If you want to try out further complications, try putting in 2 or 3 vacant spots. Now there will be 2-3 identical people named 'V' so adjustments will be needed.

Also check out these videos:
Video on Permutations: https://youtu.be/LFnLKx06EMU
Video on Combinations: https://youtu.be/tUPJhcUxllQ

Originally posted by KarishmaB on 18 Aug 2011, 22:47.
Last edited by KarishmaB on 23 Aug 2023, 00:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy go to a movie and [#permalink]
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
This variant wants you to put at least one person between A and F. This means that all those cases where A and F are together are not acceptable and also those cases where A and F have V (or your Ms. X!) between them are not acceptable.
Number of cases where A and F are together = 2*7!
Number of cases where A and F have V between them = 2*6!
[AVF and FVA]
These are the cases that are not acceptable.
Answer should be 8! - 2*7! - 2*6! = 8! - 16*6!

Think about it another way: Compare the two questions.
One where you don't want them to be together,
the other where you don't want them to be together and you don't want the vacant spot between them.
Obviously, in the second case, the number of cases you do not want are higher.
In the first question, you subtracted a total of 2*7! arrangements i.e. 14*6! arrangements.
In the second question, you need to subtract some more. You cannot subtract 3!*6! = 6*6! arrangements only.


Yes - I made that mistake of assuming X/V as a part of the group with A,F instead of thinking them separately. Stupid me !!!
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Re: Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy go to a movie and [#permalink]
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
If you want to try out further complications, try putting in 2 or 3 vacant spots. Now there will be 2-3 identical people named 'V' so adjustments will be needed.

Yes - I was thinking on these lines....I will post some variants on this once I am free.

Also thought of combining Probability with this because it is so related especially - the symmetry part.
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Re: Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy go to a movie and [#permalink]
Bunuel wrote:
GMAT100 wrote:
Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy go to a movie and sit next to each other in 6 adjacent seats in the front row of the theater. If Marcia and Jan will not sit next to each other, in how many different arrangements


The best way to deal with the questions like this is to find the total # of arrangements and then subtract # of arrangements for which opposite of restriction occur:

Total # of arrangements of 6 people (let's say A, B, C, D, E, F) is \(6!\).
# of arrangement for which 2 particular persons (let's say A and B) are adjacent can be calculated as follows: consider these two persons as one unit like {AB}. We would have total 5 units: {AB}{C}{D}{E}{F} - # of arrangement of them 5!, # of arrangements of A and B within their unit is 2!, hence total # of arrangement when A and B are adjacent is \(5!*2!\).

# of arrangement when A and B are not adjacent is \(6!-5!*2!=480\).


Hi , i want to refer to another question that you answered. it is on this link :
alicia-lives-in-a-town-whose-streets-are-on-a-grid-system-126920.html

my question is : on this question above. when you glued AB , the total units changed from 6 units to 5 units {AB}{C}{D}{E}{F}.

but on the other question , you glued the (SS) and the units changed from 6 units to 4 (SEEE).

this doesn't make sense to me. can you explain that please ….. thanks
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shagalo wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
GMAT100 wrote:
Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy go to a movie and sit next to each other in 6 adjacent seats in the front row of the theater. If Marcia and Jan will not sit next to each other, in how many different arrangements


The best way to deal with the questions like this is to find the total # of arrangements and then subtract # of arrangements for which opposite of restriction occur:

Total # of arrangements of 6 people (let's say A, B, C, D, E, F) is \(6!\).
# of arrangement for which 2 particular persons (let's say A and B) are adjacent can be calculated as follows: consider these two persons as one unit like {AB}. We would have total 5 units: {AB}{C}{D}{E}{F} - # of arrangement of them 5!, # of arrangements of A and B within their unit is 2!, hence total # of arrangement when A and B are adjacent is \(5!*2!\).

# of arrangement when A and B are not adjacent is \(6!-5!*2!=480\).


Hi , i want to refer to another question that you answered. it is on this link :
alicia-lives-in-a-town-whose-streets-are-on-a-grid-system-126920.html

my question is : on this question above. when you glued AB , the total units changed from 6 units to 5 units {AB}{C}{D}{E}{F}.

but on the other question , you glued the (SS) and the units changed from 6 units to 4 (SEEE).

this doesn't make sense to me. can you explain that please ….. thanks


In other question we are interested in routs which start with {SS}. We are fixing {SS} and counting the number of permutations of the remaining letters SEEE.

Please re-read the solution.
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Re: Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy go to a movie and [#permalink]
Total number of arrangements =6!= 720

Total arrangements of J and M sitting together = 5!*2 = 240

Total arrangement of J and M not sitting together = 480


Answer = 480
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Re: Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy go to a movie and [#permalink]
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GMAT100 wrote:
Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy go to a movie and sit next to each other in 6 adjacent seats in the front row of the theater. If Marcia and Jan will not sit next to each other, in how many different arrangements


We can use the following formula:

Total number of ways to arrange the 6 people = (number of arrangements whenMarcia sits next to Jan) + (number of arrangements when Marica does not sit next to Jan)

Let’s determine the number of arrangements in which Marcia sits next to Jan.

We can denote Greg, Marcia, Peter, Jan, Bobby and Cindy as G,M, P, J, B, and C, respectively.

If Marcia and Jan must sit together, we can consider them as one person [MJ]. For example, one seating arrangement could be [MJ][G][P][B][C]. Thus, the number of ways to arrange five people in a row is 5! = 120.

However, we must also account for the ways we can arrange Marcia and Jan, that is, either [MJ] or [JM]. Thus, there are 2! = 2 ways to arrange Marcia and Jan.

Therefore, the total number of seating arrangements is 120 x 2 = 240 if Marcia and Jan DO sit next to each other.

Since there are 6 people being arranged, the total number of possible arrangements is 6! = 720.

Thus, the number of arrangements when Marcia does NOT sit next to Jan is 720 - 240 = 480.
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