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Re: Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases [#permalink]
Niveditha28 wrote:
The most difficult question i have encountered.
Wording in option B makes it eeven more trickier for one to understand what the option actually conveys.
I misunderstood option B .

My interpretation was - As restriction imposed on hunting is closed earlier than scheduled date , limit of 5% is actually achieved way before the hunting season ends. And thus is strengthening the argument.

Basis the various discussions posted for this question , what i understand from option B -- " It has been many years since the restriction led to the hunting season for snow geese being closed earlier than the scheduled date." is - key lies in the words" It has been many years since " - author says- its been many years since restriction is imposed , where this restriction has led to closure of hunting season earlier than scheduled. . Restriction never came into play only.


Can anyone help me if my understanding is right . GMATNinja VeritasKarishma chetan2u


Thank you. I also misunderstood this interpretation.
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Re: Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases [#permalink]
@GMATNiga
Why Answer B can't be interpreted as "Because hunters have already hunted over 5% limit in advance, the hunting season has been closed earlier than the scheduled date for many years"?

Therefore, removing the 5% limit can actually help to reduce the SG population.➢Could be strengthening?

Please kindly help, thanks a lot
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Re: Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases [#permalink]
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Well0909 wrote:
@GMATNiga
Why Answer B can't be interpreted as "Because hunters have already hunted over 5% limit in advance, the hunting season has been closed earlier than the scheduled date for many years"?

Therefore, removing the 5% limit can actually help to reduce the SG population.➢Could be strengthening?

Please kindly help, thanks a lot

Take a closer look at (B):

Quote:
(B) It has been many years since the restriction led to the hunting season for snow geese being closed earlier than the scheduled date.

(B) does not suggest that hunters have gone over the 5% limit for many years. Instead, it indicates that they have NOT gone over that limit for many years. That’s why (B) says it has been many years since the season was closed early. For that reason, (B) indicates that removing the 5% limit will have little effect, and it's the best answer choice.

I hope that helps!
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Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases [#permalink]
Hi - quick question on (d) ?

Per (D) - snow geese are increasing in population. This "increased population" is settling where ?

Is this "increased population" settling in the artic or the southern region ?

I think as per D, this "increased population" is showing up in the artic region.

If true, the fact would weaken the conclusion.

Why ? Even if you remove the hunting restriction, hunters cant get to the 'increased population' [all of which are settled in the artic region]

Hunters are NOT in the northern region but in the southern region.
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Re: Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases [#permalink]
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jabhatta2 wrote:
Hi - quick question on (d) ?

Per (D) - snow geese are increasing in population. This "increased population" is settling where ?

Is this "increased population" settling in the artic or the southern region ?

I think as per D, this "increased population" is showing up in the artic region.

If true, the fact would weaken the conclusion.

Why ? Even if you remove the hunting restriction, hunters cant get to the 'increased population' [all of which are settled in the artic region]

Hunters are NOT in the northern region but in the southern region.

(D) tells us that "snow geese have recolonized wintering grounds that they had not used for several seasons," but does not specify WHERE those wintering grounds are. They could be even farther south than the current location. There's just no way of knowing the location of this new wintering ground, so we can't assume that it is out of reach for hunters.

That's why (D) doesn't necessarily weaken the conclusion.

I hope that helps!
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Re: Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases [#permalink]
KarishmaB wrote:
vdadwal wrote:
Karishma,
Lets say the hunting season is from Jan to June and for many years the hunters reach the 5% goal in april. How does this weaken the argument that If we drop the restriction altogether than it will help other species.

In D , it is stated that they have moved on to a different location so dropping the restriction will have no affect.


Option B tells you that the restriction has not come into effect since many years. "It has been many years since ..." means the restriction came into effect many years ago and since then, it has NOT come into effect. So if the hunting season is from Jan to June, it has been closing in June only. This means that even if hunters hunt for the entire hunting season, they still do not reach the 5% limit. So removing the restriction will have no effect.

D only tells you that the increasing population has led to colonizing other grounds too. It just tells you that the population has increased a lot and the geese are spreading. It doesn't say that removing the restrictions will not help.
Understand the argument: Snow geese populate the Arctic (i.e. the north pole region) and are displacing other species there. They move south in winters where there numbers are reduced due to hunting. There are restrictions on hunting. The argument says 'remove these restrictions so that the number of geese reduces more so that other species can survive.

Now your option B tells you that the restrictions are ancient and are meaningful today. They haven't come into effect for many years. Then removing the restrictions won't help, isn't it?
On the other hand, option D says that the geese population has increased and now they are also using those grounds in the southern regions that they had not used for many years. How does it imply that removing restrictions will not help? It doesn't imply that.



KarishmaB if hunting season ends if and when hunters reach 5%, doesnt option B mean that since hunting season ended earlier, then hunters reached 5% earlier , i.e. before end of hunting season
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Re: Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases [#permalink]
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dave13 wrote:
KarishmaB wrote:
vdadwal wrote:
Karishma,
Lets say the hunting season is from Jan to June and for many years the hunters reach the 5% goal in april. How does this weaken the argument that If we drop the restriction altogether than it will help other species.

In D , it is stated that they have moved on to a different location so dropping the restriction will have no affect.


Option B tells you that the restriction has not come into effect since many years. "It has been many years since ..." means the restriction came into effect many years ago and since then, it has NOT come into effect. So if the hunting season is from Jan to June, it has been closing in June only. This means that even if hunters hunt for the entire hunting season, they still do not reach the 5% limit. So removing the restriction will have no effect.

D only tells you that the increasing population has led to colonizing other grounds too. It just tells you that the population has increased a lot and the geese are spreading. It doesn't say that removing the restrictions will not help.
Understand the argument: Snow geese populate the Arctic (i.e. the north pole region) and are displacing other species there. They move south in winters where there numbers are reduced due to hunting. There are restrictions on hunting. The argument says 'remove these restrictions so that the number of geese reduces more so that other species can survive.

Now your option B tells you that the restrictions are ancient and are meaningful today. They haven't come into effect for many years. Then removing the restrictions won't help, isn't it?
On the other hand, option D says that the geese population has increased and now they are also using those grounds in the southern regions that they had not used for many years. How does it imply that removing restrictions will not help? It doesn't imply that.



KarishmaB if hunting season ends if and when hunters reach 5%, doesnt option B mean that since hunting season ended earlier, then hunters reached 5% earlier , i.e. before end of hunting season



(B) It has been many years since the restriction led to the hunting season for snow geese being closed earlier than the scheduled date

This means that for many years, hunting season has NOT closed earlier than scheduled. So for many years, the 5% quota has not been reached.

'It has been many years since A happened' means 'A has NOT happened for many years.'
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At its heart, this is a simple question that reminds us that setting and/or removing limits will only have a noticeable effect if people are actually reaching or exceeding those limits in the first place.

For example, removing a speed limit of 500 miles per hour on the highway would be pointless and have no impact on people's driving, since no one can drive that fast anyway.
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Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases [#permalink]
(B) It has been many years since the restriction led to the hunting season for snow geese being closed earlier than the scheduled date

This means that for many years, hunting season has NOT closed earlier than scheduled. So for many years, the 5% quota has not been reached.

'It has been many years since A happened' means 'A has NOT happened for many years.'

Thanks KarishmaB it make better sense now for the front part of the sentence B.
My confusion is if it hasn't reached the target limit, then why is being closed earlier than the scheduled date? Could you help clarify? Thanks.

MartyTargetTestPrep could you help too? Thanks
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Re: Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases [#permalink]
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Kimberly77 wrote:
(B) It has been many years since the restriction led to the hunting season for snow geese being closed earlier than the scheduled date

This means that for many years, hunting season has NOT closed earlier than scheduled. So for many years, the 5% quota has not been reached.

'It has been many years since A happened' means 'A has NOT happened for many years.'

Thanks KarishmaB it make better sense now for the front part of the sentence B.
My confusion is if it hasn't reached the target limit, then why is being closed earlier than the scheduled date? Could you help clarify? Thanks.

MartyTargetTestPrep could you help too? Thanks

Hi Kimberly77.

Take another look.

You just said that the hunting season "has NOT closed earlier than scheduled."
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Kimberly77 wrote:
(B) It has been many years since the restriction led to the hunting season for snow geese being closed earlier than the scheduled date

This means that for many years, hunting season has NOT closed earlier than scheduled. So for many years, the 5% quota has not been reached.

'It has been many years since A happened' means 'A has NOT happened for many years.'

Thanks KarishmaB it make better sense now for the front part of the sentence B.
My confusion is if it hasn't reached the target limit, then why is being closed earlier than the scheduled date? Could you help clarify? Thanks.

MartyTargetTestPrep could you help too? Thanks


We are looking for something that undermines the argument.
We are looking for something that says that dropping the restriction will have no effect and that is exactly what (B) does.

It tells us that the restriction level is anyway not reached so dropping the restriction is useless.

You are probably wondering that why does the author suggest dropping the restriction when the restriction level has not been reached in many years?
It is a case of missing information. The author doesn't know that the 5% numbers haven't been reached in many years. He reads that there is this restriction under which the hunting season ends if and when hunting reduces the population by five percent and he suggests to drop the restriction. Then we bring in new information for him in our option that the restriction anyway hasn't played a role in many years. Hence his argument weakens (or falls apart if you wish).
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Re: Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases [#permalink]
KarishmaB wrote:
Kimberly77 wrote:
(B) It has been many years since the restriction led to the hunting season for snow geese being closed earlier than the scheduled date

This means that for many years, hunting season has NOT closed earlier than scheduled. So for many years, the 5% quota has not been reached.

'It has been many years since A happened' means 'A has NOT happened for many years.'

Thanks KarishmaB it make better sense now for the front part of the sentence B.
My confusion is if it hasn't reached the target limit, then why is being closed earlier than the scheduled date? Could you help clarify? Thanks.

MartyTargetTestPrep could you help too? Thanks


We are looking for something that undermines the argument.
We are looking for something that says that dropping the restriction will have no effect and that is exactly what (B) does.

It tells us that the restriction level is anyway not reached so dropping the restriction is useless.

You are probably wondering that why does the author suggest dropping the restriction when the restriction level has not been reached in many years?
It is a case of missing information. The author doesn't know that the 5% numbers haven't been reached in many years. He reads that there is this restriction under which the hunting season ends if and when hunting reduces the population by five percent and he suggests to drop the restriction. Then we bring in new information for him in our option that the restriction anyway hasn't played a role in many years. Hence his argument weakens (or falls apart if you wish).


Thanks KarishmaB, I think I just need to understand it as anything that follow " 'It has been many years since A happened' means whatever follow will be opposite meaning or negative then. Thanks for your reply :thumbsup: :please:
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Re: Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases [#permalink]
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MartyTargetTestPrep wrote:
Kimberly77 wrote:
(B) It has been many years since the restriction led to the hunting season for snow geese being closed earlier than the scheduled date

This means that for many years, hunting season has NOT closed earlier than scheduled. So for many years, the 5% quota has not been reached.

'It has been many years since A happened' means 'A has NOT happened for many years.'

Thanks KarishmaB it make better sense now for the front part of the sentence B.
My confusion is if it hasn't reached the target limit, then why is being closed earlier than the scheduled date? Could you help clarify? Thanks.

MartyTargetTestPrep could you help too? Thanks

Hi Kimberly77.

Take another look.

You just said that the hunting season "has NOT closed earlier than scheduled."


Thanks MartyTargetTestPrep for your reply, sorry for confusion as that was the word from KarishmaB.
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Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases [#permalink]
GMATNinja, KarishmaB, generis - Please help!

This argument recommends relaxing the restriction on hunting of Snow Geese as a possible solution for the recovery of other species, and the question asks you to weaken it.

My pre-thought answers were along the lines of-

Okay, I need a reason why relaxing the restriction won't work..
1. Okay maybe the Snow Geese is too much in number that relaxing restrictions alone as a solution won't work..
2. The restriction, if relaxed, might drastically reduce Snow Geese population..

But the answer is along the lines of - The hunting never closed before the scheduled date from many years.
I am NOT saying that the answer should always be along the lines of the pre-thought ideas, but this one just threw me off completely.

When I read this, I thought okay, maybe the hunters weren't able to bring down the population by 5% before the scheduled date, so it makes sense for the hunting to continue past the deadline as well. But it is not actually weakening the conclusion.

But the reasoning given is, since the deadline weren't being respected, the restriction was never helpful to begin with. I mean, of course after you read the explanation, you tend to think it makes sense, but I could not have come to this conclusion even if I had the luxury of time. How do you work on the answer when you are faced with such a situation? Just bail on the question?
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Re: Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases [#permalink]
Hi Experts,

This is definitely a tough question and tag also shows 750-800 level question.
During my GMAC prep mock this was the very 1st question in my verbal section.

Sometimes I really fail to understand the algorithm of GMAC because 1st question is supposed to be easy.

Any comments ?
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Re: Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases [#permalink]
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Auror_07 wrote:
GMATNinja, KarishmaB, generis - Please help!

This argument recommends relaxing the restriction on hunting of Snow Geese as a possible solution for the recovery of other species, and the question asks you to weaken it.

My pre-thought answers were along the lines of-

Okay, I need a reason why relaxing the restriction won't work..

Okay maybe the Snow Geese is too much in number that relaxing restrictions alone as a solution won't work..

The restriction, if relaxed, might drastically reduce Snow Geese population..

But the answer is along the lines of - The hunting never closed before the scheduled date from many years.

I am NOT saying that the answer should always be along the lines of the pre-thought ideas, but this one just threw me off completely.

When I read this, I thought okay, maybe the hunters weren't able to bring down the population by 5% before the scheduled date, so it makes sense for the hunting to continue past the deadline as well. But it is not actually weakening the conclusion.

But the reasoning given is, since the deadline weren't being respected, the restriction was never helpful to begin with. I mean, of course after you read the explanation, you tend to think it makes sense, but I could not have come to this conclusion even if I had the luxury of time. How do you work on the answer when you are faced with such a situation? Just bail on the question?

All good questions!

First, I'd be cautious about anticipating the answer choice ahead of time. As you noticed in this question, the correct answer won't always be something you'd come up with on your own.

So what should you do instead? Well, after making sense of the argument, try taking each answer choice on its own merits. Ask yourself: how would this fact impact the argument? Let's try that with answer choice (B):

Quote:
It has been many years since the restriction led to the hunting season for snow geese being closed earlier than the scheduled date.

If this were true, it would mean that during the hunting season, hunters were reducing the population by less than five percent. How would that impact the conclusion? Well, dropping the restriction probably wouldn't lead to a hunters killing more geese. Even if the restriction were raised to 10%, for instance, we know that hunters were routinely killing less than 5%.

Put another way, the restriction wasn't holding back hunters from killing more geese. So dropping the restriction wouldn't lead to them killing more. For that reason, (B) undermines the argument and it's correct.

Overall, anticipating answer choices can be dangerous and is often more trouble than it's worth. For many questions, it will be impossible to pre-think the correct answer, which could make it harder to spot the correct answer when you see it (or easier to fall for a wrong answer if it resembles what you were expecting). For more on that, check out this video.

I hope that helps!
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Re: Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases [#permalink]
Understanding the argument -
Some species of Arctic birds are threatened by recent sharp increases in the population of snow geese, which breed in the Arctic and are displacing birds of less vigorous species. - Fact
Although snow geese are a popular quarry for hunters in the southern regions where they winter, the hunting season ends if and when hunting has reduced the population by five percent, according to official estimates. - Although it introduces contrast, the statement is a fact.
Clearly, dropping this restriction would allow the other species to recover. - Conclusion.

Option Elimination - Weaken

(A) Hunting limits for snow geese were imposed many years ago in response to a sharp decline in the population of snow geese. - When and Why these restrictions were imposed is out of scope.

(B) It has been many years since the restriction led to the hunting season for snow geese being closed earlier than the scheduled date. - so, if the hunting season was set from Month 1 to 6, but hunters stopped hunting in Month 2, then removing the limitation will not help. Or maybe the hunters just hunt 1% of snow geese when the limitation was 5%, so even if we remove the limitation, hunters may still hunt 1%. ok.

(C) The number of snow geese taken by hunters each year has grown every year for several years. - Classic trap. The argument talks about percentages and this talks about the numbers. Out of scope.

(D) As their population has increased, snow geese have recolonized wintering grounds that they had not used for several seasons. - Goes in the direction of the opposite of what we need. If they recolonize more ground, then removing restrictions should help. At best, a strengthener.

(E) In the snow goose’s winter habitats, the goose faces no significant natural predation. - If they face no natural predation, then maybe only hunting can help. At best, it can be a strengthener and not the weaker we need.
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