Part Time vs. Full Time MBA Career Opportunities

I don't think Stern allows PT students access to the on-campus recruiting events for FT students.

I was also in the same shoes last month when i had to deny PT offer from Stern. I asked the adcom, if they are atleast planning to allow PT students in the next 2-3 yrs to participate in FT career services, as it is the most serious complaint they are facing from PT students. But they directly told me that if you are looking for career change then go for FT and they don't have any plans like that for PT. I had applied for other FT programs as well along with PT and got admission. Also for me personality development, networking & other leadership experiences which i gain from FT is more important than MBA Grades which i already had during my masters and undergrad..So i decided to go on FT

Thanks all for your input.

Yes, Stern has been explicit that it does not allow access to FT recruiting events to most students. Their thinking probably that it's unethical for a student funded by their company being allowed to interview other places while on the job.

My understanding is that they do in some cases when the student is funded on their own (Would makes you think you shouldn't take that tuition reimbursement from your company).

I searched HAAS, Chicago PT programs and all seemed to definitely have a much better career services center and students who claimed that they had switched to other industries.

I guess it's such a risk to just depend on student networking to be able to make that transition and yet there are several hundred in each batch. I wish there was an alumni forum to check with.

From what I know about Kellogg's PT, as long as your company isnt paying for your degree you can use career services. However, you can't go to all the recruiting events and stuff like that. Plus not getting to do the internship is going to hurt your career switching. The advantage of the internship for companies is that its basically a very low risk way for them to interview you for two to three months. With no real experience in the field you are still a risk for them...can you cut it, will you hate it and want to quit 6 months in...all things that an internship help answer.

Why is everbody so concern about career services in PT?

After u get ur part time MBA u can apply or register with employment agencies and I am sure that u will be overwhelmed with good job offers.

I think thats actually better because u can solicit a better deal if u r already employed and wanna transfer to another company.

Well, i think it depends on what you want to do... if its non-transitional, then yes, your prior existing job creates leverage. If on the other hand you are switching job function / industry completely (java programmer -> banker for instance) your existing compensation package would be viewed as largely irrelevant.

The reason people harp on the career svcs issue is because, frankly, a lot of firms aren't going to give you the time of day if you just submit your resume from monster.com or some other "anonymous" method such as their website. It'll go into a pile with a few hundred (or thousand) other resumes. Career Services gives you intimate one-on-one access to a lot of these top firms in the forms of coffee chats, networking events, etc - and (most importantly) gets your resume directly in front of someone who you KNOW is going to be on campus in a few weeks as opposed to just going to some recruiting@ email address along with the 3,800 other people who sent something in. Also, you'll note that often what you find online are jobs not intended for immediate post-mba grads -- those jobs are being filled through career services events -- so it becomes increasingly difficult to find jobs that are right for your skill level outside of the career svcs office. Of course this only matters if you are changing careers in some way, but most everyone is...

That said, I've been impressed with what some of the PT have been able to do at Chicago. I know one that spent the summer at Lehman and now moved to McKinsey full time (although he took a job in some weird city). He was in the army before I believe. So the OPs original question - it can be done and obviously, he's pretty happy. On the other hand, I know a girl who works for IBM at the moment and hasn't been able to land a single FT offer - and she's trying to stay in the same industry and just switch from technology to strategy. Not Booz, not bain, not mcksiney, not deloitte, not at kearney, not a single one of them wanted her. It seems like there are some PT who network well, connect well, and move forward - there are others that don't.

Simply having the MBA isn't going to get Bain or McKinsey or GS or DOW or whomever to start knocking on your door. Employment agencies can open some doors, sure, but if your goal is to change job function, they aren't going to be much help. You can't convince an employment agency to take your 5 years engineering experience and submit you as their top candidate for a Senior Financial Analyst role at PIMCO. It's not going to happen. First many of them wouldnt understand why you are now qualified anyway, and second, they aren't going to risk an employment relationship with a firm so you can get "a chance". They will send the best candidate over, and odds are, thats not you. What I'm trying to get at is that the opportunity to change jobs -- to truly change industry and function -- comes rather uniquely through the internship and full time recruiting cycle at MBA programs. It doesn't follow you forever thereafter - whether or not you were PT or FT.

Also, for what its worth, and this may vary by school, but ..... FT folks will hate you with a vengeance if you are in the PT program. The way the FT see it - the PT folks got in through a back door and now want to compete for the same jobs with people who don't even have a job. The reasons are sometimes far, sometimes not. In general, the PT students seem far less polished and really play the "elbow" game in recruiting circles. I could tell you some stories.

Along those lines, there's something to be said about the network opportunity differences. I'll see if I cant dig it up, but somewhere I have a network diagram of PT students in a class and FT students in a class. What the network diagram shows is that, on average, PT students knew something like 1.8 other people in the class (I'm making this number up at the moment since I cant recall the details, but the gist is there) and the FT folks knew something like 12 people. In fact, I've met a few FT who switched from the PT program because they felt that, despite what the PT program likes to tell people, they didn't feel it was on par. To be fair, I can see why - many of the clubs here are closed to PT students, and although they often start their own, the career svcs office supports the FT clubs with networking events, not the PT clubs. The number of career svcs events and support provided to FT students is astronomically different than that of PT students (at least at Booth, which applies to everything I've said so far actually). In short, there is a pretty big difference, at least here at Booth.

On balance, I don't think the two programs are equal - thats not to say however that the PT program isn't without merit, but it doesn't provide the same experience. I've admittedly wondered a few times if PT would have made more sense for me, considering my already high salary (pre mba) and the relative ease with which I've managed to move industries and function.... but when I remind myself that a lot of that success was because I had the support of the school, and the amazing career svcs office, as well as access to a ridiculous number of FT-only networking events, coffee chats, L&Ls, etc, I realize that it probably wouldn't have worked out. I think back to the girl I know at IBM Global Svcs -- if she can't break out of that firm into another consulting firm (thats not that big of a leap) could I have broken out of my job into General Mgmt ? Probably not.

In short, I'd caution that your hope that you will be "overwhelmed" with good offers through employment agencies is probably a bit overly optimistic.

Now on to the OPs original question:

Can you get copies of employment reports for the PT program? That might be able to answer many of your questions.... Another option is to raise these concerns with the school and ask them if they can put you in touch with some students who have sucessfully made changes to their careers. Thats another option. Also consider finding out who runs the PT clubs, or if the FT clubs are open to you at Stern. Reach out to the FT co-chairs and ask if you can join as a PT student. Reach out to the PT co-chairs (if they exist) and ask them what events they held last year. Take a look and see. It may be that my experiences are colored and Stern may provide a different set of opportunities. If I were you, I'd basically go network with everyone I could at teh school and try to learn as much about what opportunities really exist.

In response to your answer Rhyme, a 1yr MBA would fulfill the career services requirements and other points except for the internship part, especially for candidates transitioning to engineering to Strategy, GM. What do you think?

Rhyme,

U r right it depends a lot of what ur current job is. Still, I think Part time is a good deal if u can get ur company to pay for tuition. That way no only that u save tuition money and prevent urself from a huge debt but also continue to earn ur salary. Afterwards, I believe there will be plenty of opportunities to move around into a new job.

On campus career services mainly assist students to help them get their 'first' job and thats great because its much harder to find first job then to move from one to another.

I know u mentioned somewhere before how big ur salary was and I really admire ur enthusiasm to go Full Time but I guess u have ur reasons, maybe family or got tired with ur job or whatever might be.

I wont be able to afford to pay tuition n living costs of Full time program so PT works fine for me

Excellent post Rhyme. Thank you so much. That was a very insightful answer.

I highlighted my key take aways from your notes and the situation that girl at IBM is facing is what worries me. Not a major shift from Environmental Engineering Consulting to a more Environmental Strategy Consulting.

I have sent my feelers out to several students I know on the clubs, recruiting events etc. I will check for the employment reports. Didn't ask for those.

I agree with you also that FT will hate you with a vengance at career fairs and I agree. It's not a fair situation.

That said, my visa situation doesn't allow me to move into a Full Time. 6 yrs on H1B and no Green Card (for Internationals that might ring a bell). Essentially after my MBA I will not be able to take a job in the US..

Your notes really helps me prepare me for the worst. I'll send you a pm with some other questions and thoughts. This is one tough question but at the end of it I think you have to take a risk, believe in yourself and work hard so that is works out.

Thanks...

I wish I was in the same boat Spiridon. With the current recession, my company basically said goodbye to Tuition Reimbursements for MBA.

Well, mine maybe did the same I will find out soon!

For those of you that work for companies with tuition reimbursement: Do these companies really not have any commitment requirement after they pay for your PT MBA? The one I work for doesn't, but they only pay up to $8k a year. There are a select few MBA's in-state that this will cover. People working elsewhere are on their own to pay the rest for their MBA so the company can't really require a commitment. I think that would be very different if the company were paying for tuition at Kellogg, Chicago, Stern, or any of the others that charge a lot for tuition. I know if I had a company that sponsored someone to get their PT MBA from Kellogg and I paid the bill, I'm making sure I get a signed contract of 5 - 7 years of employment, or they owe me the cost of tuition prorated for the time post-MBA they worked for me.

Yea, most firms have a 2 to 3 year commitment period. Same applies for firms that offer to pay for your second year of school post internship, though the commitment then tends to be a bit shorter.

That's one more reason why recruiters don't want to mess around with PT. If they find someone they like, then they have to make sure the person isn't lying to them about being sponsored by their school. And even if the person plans to pay their employer back, why didn't they just go fulltime? Because they didn't want to give up their job? Then the new company will see that as rather dishonest because they took that salary knowing they weren't going to be there longer than another 2 years or so. A new company would rather have someone that can commit as well. Jumping into a fulltime program shows commitment to what you choose to do. No turning back. One semester in and you've got loans that you'll need the MBA so you can pay them back.

It's like my grandfather once told me. Life is like breakfast. You've got your bacon and eggs. The chicken is involved, but the pig is committed. Be a pig in life, and you'll be set.

IMHO, while its true the full time shows commitment to the program I don't think its got anything to do with the loans that you took. As a PT without tuition reimbursement, I will be taking a loan and I want to be the pig who knows I am taking the right decision.

There was an article a few years back that discussed how employers preferred FT students to PT students, but I can't seem to find it now. It might be archived somewhere on GC....

I'm specifically talking about people that keep their job during their MBA even though their current job is not in the industry they want to jump to post-MBA. I'm not talking about all PT MBA students.