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Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools

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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 17 Aug 2010, 01:19
bsd_lover wrote:
I'd appreciate some constructive reasoning behind any assertions. Please read page 1 of this thread where I outlined the reasons why I put schools in their respective buckets.


IMD is Ultra Elite for its:

1) International recognition
2) High rankings
3) Many applicants would prefer it over INSEAD (students accepted to both IMD and INSEAD tend to choose IMD)
4) High demand from employers. Recently I spoke to both IMD and INSEAD students on info-sessions. IMD students DO NOT worry that much about new jobs after graduation. Insead students still have to spend significant efforts to get their dream job.
5) Opinion of other guys on this forum. As you can see almost all (except you) put IMD in UE which is more than just a coincidence
6) Finance easily available at IMD for new students. This is a feature of only few elite schools.
7) Large alumni network. Doesn't matter that most of them are EMBAs- IMD specialize on executive education but all those guys are still within network.
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 17 Aug 2010, 04:01
sanlitun wrote:
tmino wrote:
lonewolf wrote:
Looking into some b-schools around Asia since I want to work in either China or HK afterward.

Can anyone comment on the MBA programs in Tsinghua, CEIBS, HKUST, CUHK? Which one held more prestige and preferred by employers?

Thanks in advance.

p.s. Would also appreciate if someone can share some links/info regarding MBA programs in Asia. It is surprisingly hard to find accurate information online.


I just came back from an exchange at the HKU MBA. Had a couple classmates at HKUST and CUHK.

As to my limited insights: I've never heard of Tsinghua. CEIBS is quite good, probably much better than CUHK. But HKUST is probably the strongest program of all schools you mention. Quite good and demanding classes according to my classmates. As a comparison, at HKU we were able to choose from 8 electives for our term (many of which we already took in our 1st year as part of the core classes). At HKUST it was more like 30+ electives to choose from.



Tsinghua is famous in China . It's got that pedigree which I think CEIBS lacks and hence within China , Tsinghua will get more value than CEIBS. It fits exactly into regional elite category. BTW , if I remember correctly INSEAD has some tie up with Tsinghua for EMBA.


Well depends on where you wanna stay. Tsinghua is more beijing based whereas CEIBS is more shanghai focused. Tsinghua by itself is generally quite famous but if you talk about MBA program, i believe CEIBS has a better reputation.
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2010, 18:01
Jiang wrote:
sanlitun wrote:
tmino wrote:
Looking into some b-schools around Asia since I want to work in either China or HK afterward.

Can anyone comment on the MBA programs in Tsinghua, CEIBS, HKUST, CUHK? Which one held more prestige and preferred by employers?

Thanks in advance.

p.s. Would also appreciate if someone can share some links/info regarding MBA programs in Asia. It is surprisingly hard to find accurate information online.


I just came back from an exchange at the HKU MBA. Had a couple classmates at HKUST and CUHK.

As to my limited insights: I've never heard of Tsinghua. CEIBS is quite good, probably much better than CUHK. But HKUST is probably the strongest program of all schools you mention. Quite good and demanding classes according to my classmates. As a comparison, at HKU we were able to choose from 8 electives for our term (many of which we already took in our 1st year as part of the core classes). At HKUST it was more like 30+ electives to choose from.



Tsinghua is famous in China . It's got that pedigree which I think CEIBS lacks and hence within China , Tsinghua will get more value than CEIBS. It fits exactly into regional elite category. BTW , if I remember correctly INSEAD has some tie up with Tsinghua for EMBA.



Just want to let you know that the 4 Asia business schools -CEIBS, HKUST, NUS and ISB are travelling to US and Europe together this fall to jointly introduce their MBA programs there. If you are interested in knowing more about programs in Asia, highly recommend you to attend any one of those events. They will be having presentation in QS's fairs in NY, LA, San Francisco, Toronto, London, Paris and Madrid.

There was a post by dzyubam with title: Top Asian B-Schools Join Forces
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 22 Aug 2010, 03:24
good post.
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 22 Aug 2010, 23:43
Thanks! BTW, i am a new comer.
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 24 Sep 2010, 11:13
http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolra ... a-rankings

that has some interesting rankings for international schools... Is the ranking of UE-E only european schools because i think HKUST should be in Es...
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 13 Nov 2010, 01:57
I was wondering why theres not much mention about RSM and NUS around these forums. I was keen on getting to know them better. however most threads and most forums just give them a fleeting mention.

also am kinda new to this and have a rather odd WE background, so was wonderin you guys could gimme some advice.
i'll give u a short profile;
Male/Indian
graduated as a Marine Engineer with a degree from an Elite Indian Univ.
excellent acads. recently did a dry-run@Gmat after a 2 week prep and did 630 so no issues
thr will def push it up.

extras are also pretty decent. have been actively into sports in college and was team lead in various paper presentations. was the editor of collg. publication as well.

I always like to emphasise that am trained in a lotta extras like fire-fighting, First-aid and survival techniques......but thats because its part of my job to be trained in all these (they're pretty good actually and fun too)

Now comes the hard part....
My work exp by the time will be around 3.5-4 years by the time i apply.
and, I am serving in the Merchant Marine all this while. My job profile is ..well.. going away on large ocean going ships(tankers) and all engineering jobs on the ship (plus related admin jobs.)

I would say i have excellent "international" exposure because i travel to places....a lotta places.
get to exp a lotta diff cultures.

BUT that being said, is it possible for a career switch into GM/Cosulting? frankly i am well versed in my field an dont mind considering options in Commodities(Oil&gas) and Intl. trade.
But all one gets to hear in all forums is ppl going ga-ga over IB/Consulting and Trading :P
having a pure-technical WE is also an issue .... but maybe u guys can point out whether thats really a big issue?

Well...thanks :) and hope i get some help :)
cheerios
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2010, 01:31
great collection of data
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 05 Jan 2011, 04:18
Great post!!!!

But i am still concerned about IIMA and ISB not in the UE list.
One reason i see is less diversity in class, as it is more of engg's forte in india. And also less diversity in terms of international students attending(4%). But still i think it deserves Elites because of its higher international starting salary which is $110,000 (median).
and also its higher rate of employment which is above 90% at graduation, and aprx 100% at 3 months of graduation even in recession.
Also in FT's list only INSEAD, LSB, IE, IESE are above it except US universities.

Also if we consider its teaching style, it is case based (and i dont know why but always compared to harvard).
so i think they deserves UE in our list.
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 18 Feb 2011, 04:07
rohits wrote:
Great post!!!!

But i am still concerned about IIMA and ISB not in the UE list.
One reason i see is less diversity in class, as it is more of engg's forte in india. And also less diversity in terms of international students attending(4%). But still i think it deserves Elites because of its higher international starting salary which is $110,000 (median).
and also its higher rate of employment which is above 90% at graduation, and aprx 100% at 3 months of graduation even in recession.
Also in FT's list only INSEAD, LSB, IE, IESE are above it except US universities.

Also if we consider its teaching style, it is case based (and i dont know why but always compared to harvard).
so i think they deserves UE in our list.


Actually I am of the opinion that IIMA and ISB when compared to other schools should come under trans elites. As you pointed out there is no diversity at all in their class. 95% are Indians and most of them have been doing back-end work of MNCs. Moreover IIMs have 40% people with no work experience at all !!!

The FT rankings are totally farce putting IIMA and ISB above IMD,Stern, Yale, HEC, ESADE and Kelloggs. Also I am not sure about the salary figures as ISB and IIMs are quite known for manipulating them. I know ISB pass-outs getting paid 600,000 INR as starting salary.

You have mentioned teaching style. Are you aware of it at other top 20 Univs ? If you are a pass out of IIM and went for summer exchange program, I am sure you would have noticed a huge difference in the teaching style. Students don't just work on case studies but works on live company projects.

ISB and IIM are at best rated as a top regional school..
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 23 Feb 2011, 22:01
[NEED SUPPORT; PLEASE HELP]

While choosing B-schools, should I also take care of the attached university ranking? Will it give me any further benefit?

For instance, UBC ranking as a university is very good world-wide which may give me an ultimate brand value while networking (though it's B-school is in the last quartile of Economist and FT ranking). Whereas, U of Western Ontario is pretty much unknown to the world as well as unranked university, and maybe has far lesser number of Alumni worldwide; but it's B-school students really have good avg salary, employment rate and such. And, Thunderbird is not at all under/with any university and run independently.

I have narrowed down my focus B-school list to 15 which are well fit with me as long as career, interest, mobility, teaching quality and facility are concerned. However, now I am planning to make the list even narrower maybe to 7/8. I want to choose a B-school with a good balance between university ranking as well as the ranking of the the school itself. But, I will leave this if B-school means B-school only, and university ranking and renounce has nothing to do with it.

Please, help which focus should be given more weight.
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 16 Apr 2011, 14:46
Here's how Global MBA Report calls it:

1. The London Business School, U.K.

2. Wharton University of Pennsylvania, U.S.A.

3. Harvard Business School, U.S.A.

4. Stanford University GSB, U.S.A.

5. Insead France / Singapore

6. Columbia Business School, U.S.A.

7. IE Business School, Spain

8. MIT Sloan School of Management, U.S.A.

9. University of Chicago: Booth, U.S.A.

10. Hong Kong UST Business School, China

Full reviews for each of these can be found here - http://globalmbareport.com/index.php/top10-global-mba/
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 20 May 2011, 12:18
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Hi,

I am new to this forum and it has helped me a lot already. Now, I would like to make a contribution myself to the regional elites category.

I am thinking of the Goethe University Frankfurt am Main. However, I must say, that my recommendation is only valid for the masters degree in money and finance and the prospects of being employed in the Finance industrie. The "House of finance" also offers executive studies,but I dont know anything about that. Generally, Germany seems to be a place where MBA´s are not as accepted or at least offered as in some other countries. But I think that is no reason to withhold the community from its outstanding masters degree in money in finance.

If this appropriate for this thread, let me know. We then can discuss whether it matches the criteria to fit into the ranking.
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 05 Jun 2011, 05:32
TheStudent wrote:
Hi,
Generally, Germany seems to be a place where MBA´s are not as accepted or at least offered as in some other countries.


Spot on comment.

You should also consider WHU, Mannheim, and St. Gallen if you are serious about staying in the German-speaking region for a career.
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 05 Jun 2011, 06:11
trader1 wrote:
TheStudent wrote:
Hi,
Generally, Germany seems to be a place where MBA´s are not as accepted or at least offered as in some other countries.


Spot on comment.

You should also consider WHU, Mannheim, and St. Gallen if you are serious about staying in the German-speaking region for a career.


The schools you mentioned certainly have a remarkable connection to the business world, especially St. Gallen and Mannheim.
Personally, I am aiming for a more international career though. In the German-speaking part of Europe I will apply to St. Gallen, Uni Zürich, WU Wien and as 4th priority Mannheim (bc I want to leave Germany for my Msc.)

Given that I am interested in a Msc. in Finance, these schools are very good choices.

Thank you for your advice though
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 23 Jun 2011, 04:11
Is it possible to get the perspective of the admissions consultants on GMATCLUB on this topic?

I feel they are in a better position to comment on various factors such as caliber of applicant pool which may not be apparent to applicants.
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 26 Jul 2011, 12:16
I would think Schulich and Rotman would have made it a little further than regional elite, especially Schulich.
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 13 Aug 2011, 08:46
IMD is a great Business School, but I still believe the overall opportunities provided at INSEAD/LBS are far better than those at IMD. Finance and MC advantage of LBS and INSEAD, respectively, over IMD are apparent. I will discuss the entrepreneurial/family business advantage that these school offer which I could have never gotten out of IMD. Over 70 nationalities represented in one class at INSEAD, one gets unmatched opportunities of generating market data, developing the global mind set which is essential for any start up. This data also help in gauging the utility of the entrepreneurial idea across nations. 50% of INSEAD alumni at some point of their life end up starting something on their own. So, the class in more open to exploring opportunities and additionally, it is fun to be in a class where almost half the people have a start-up idea at the back of their heads.

Networking opportunities that one can make most use of are provided by one's classmates. LBS/INSEAD are larger programs than IMD and hence, one's network grows immensely with time. 4-5 years down the line, one's classmates would be working in positions of importance in their respective industries, providing one with a much larger set of opportunities to exploit meaningfully the network. London/Paris/Singapore are the places to be if one wants to network.

In its domain, IMD is the best program but INSEAD/LBS are also equally good if not better in that domain. Over and above that industry domain, INSEAD/LBS offer something extra and this something extra makes these schools UE.
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 01 Sep 2011, 01:30
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I read throught the thread and see there are major two concerns from minority of people on the thread who believe IMD should not be UE.

1. Class-size too small

This led us to an old question, go for quality or quantity?. From quality perspective, IMD alumni are not any poorer than other UE schools. When I was preparing my MBA application (I applied to IMD/INSEAD/Cornell/Tuck), I have sent a lot of e-mails to alumni in order to try to understand the program better. As a result, IMD alumni really impressed me that 100% of IMD alumni replied e-mail and most of them are really helpful. Some alumni who lives in same region, even called me to give me a lot of insights.

From absolute quantity perspective, Yes, I agree. IMD has only 2950 MBA alumni, which is much lesser than Kellogg (41503), Wharton (39779), Booth (44722) and Columbia (39000).

But is the absolute number of alumni really meaningful? We should go for quality or quantity? Try to ask yourself: “Do you really have time to network with 40,000+ alumni?” A quality network will not automatically built because people came from same school. A quality network built because you invest into it.

For my personal standpoint, 2950 alumni are already more than I believe I can have enough time to network with them.

2. Low placement in Finance and MC
Tuck and Kellogg are famous for placing their students into consulting industry. Let’s compare the figure:

In 2010,
IMD placed 4/90 (4.44%) students to McKinsey and 2/90 (2.22%) students to BCG.
Kellogg placed 18/1126 (1.6%) students McKinsey and 23/1126 (2.04%) students to BCG, 7/1126 (0.62%) students to Bain.
Tuck placed 5/537 (0.93%) students to McKinsey and 9/537 (1.68%) students to Bain.

I put more M7 schools stats for reference.
Wharton placed 44/1690 (2.6%) students to McKinsey; 43/1690 (2.54%) students to BCG and 18/1690 (1.07%) students to Bain.
Booth placed 24/1177 (2.04%) students to McKinsey; 19/1177 (1.61%) students to BCG and 15/1177 (1.27%) students to Bain.
Columbia placed 18/1278 students to McKinsey; 15/1278 students to BCG and 12/1278 (0.94%) students to Bain.

From above data, I don’t see IMD shown that they are in a more difficult position to place their student into Top consulting firms.

In fact, I have questioned some IMD alumni, why there are not much IMD graduates go to Consulting. One of the major reasons is salary. IMD graduates normally can get higher salary from industry job than from consulting job.

The IMD graduate’s median salary is $124,700, which is at 10-25% higher than INSEAD $111,900, or Magic 7 school: Wharton $110,000; Kellogg $105,000 Booth $102,000; Columbia $100,000;

Consulting jobs is challenging and gives you a prestige status. But, if I need to get pay 20% less and work 80% more hours every week, I prefer to do similar job by going to Strategy department of Corporate

* All information comes from BusinessWeeks webpage.

In this thread, majority of people believe IMD should be UE, while only 3 believe that IMD should not be UE. bsd_lover, I don’t see your point why you don’t listen to majority of people and put IMD back to UE.
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools [#permalink] New post 02 Sep 2011, 03:01
nevermindband wrote:
I read throught the thread and see there are major two concerns from minority of people on the thread who believe IMD should not be UE.

1. Class-size too small

This led us to an old question, go for quality or quantity?. From quality perspective, IMD alumni are not any poorer than other UE schools. When I was preparing my MBA application (I applied to IMD/INSEAD/Cornell/Tuck), I have sent a lot of e-mails to alumni in order to try to understand the program better. As a result, IMD alumni really impressed me that 100% of IMD alumni replied e-mail and most of them are really helpful. Some alumni who lives in same region, even called me to give me a lot of insights.

From absolute quantity perspective, Yes, I agree. IMD has only 2950 MBA alumni, which is much lesser than Kellogg (41503), Wharton (39779), Booth (44722) and Columbia (39000).

But is the absolute number of alumni really meaningful? We should go for quality or quantity? Try to ask yourself: “Do you really have time to network with 40,000+ alumni?” A quality network will not automatically built because people came from same school. A quality network built because you invest into it.

For my personal standpoint, 2950 alumni are already more than I believe I can have enough time to network with them.

2. Low placement in Finance and MC
Tuck and Kellogg are famous for placing their students into consulting industry. Let’s compare the figure:

In 2010,
IMD placed 4/90 (4.44%) students to McKinsey and 2/90 (2.22%) students to BCG.
Kellogg placed 18/1126 (1.6%) students McKinsey and 23/1126 (2.04%) students to BCG, 7/1126 (0.62%) students to Bain.
Tuck placed 5/537 (0.93%) students to McKinsey and 9/537 (1.68%) students to Bain.

I put more M7 schools stats for reference.
Wharton placed 44/1690 (2.6%) students to McKinsey; 43/1690 (2.54%) students to BCG and 18/1690 (1.07%) students to Bain.
Booth placed 24/1177 (2.04%) students to McKinsey; 19/1177 (1.61%) students to BCG and 15/1177 (1.27%) students to Bain.
Columbia placed 18/1278 students to McKinsey; 15/1278 students to BCG and 12/1278 (0.94%) students to Bain.

From above data, I don’t see IMD shown that they are in a more difficult position to place their student into Top consulting firms.

In fact, I have questioned some IMD alumni, why there are not much IMD graduates go to Consulting. One of the major reasons is salary. IMD graduates normally can get higher salary from industry job than from consulting job.

The IMD graduate’s median salary is $124,700, which is at 10-25% higher than INSEAD $111,900, or Magic 7 school: Wharton $110,000; Kellogg $105,000 Booth $102,000; Columbia $100,000;

Consulting jobs is challenging and gives you a prestige status. But, if I need to get pay 20% less and work 80% more hours every week, I prefer to do similar job by going to Strategy department of Corporate

* All information comes from BusinessWeeks webpage.

In this thread, majority of people believe IMD should be UE, while only 3 believe that IMD should not be UE. bsd_lover, I don’t see your point why you don’t listen to majority of people and put IMD back to UE.


Food for thought, IMD got ranked by Forbes as the #1 international MBA program out there.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenha ... s-schools/

Personally both INSEAD and IMD are amazing schools.
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Re: Ranks and clusterings of various International b-schools   [#permalink] 02 Sep 2011, 03:01
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