Ask Alex @ MBA Apply

Here's where you stand:

Stretch (choose 1-2): Kellogg, Sloan, Tuck, Booth, Columbia (I'd look at Kellogg and Sloan given your goals)
Sweet spot (choose 3-5): Haas, Duke, Darden, Ross, Yale, Stern, Cornell, UCLA (I'd focus on Haas, Duke, Darden, Ross, UCLA)
Safety (choose 0-1): anything outside the top 16; given your background you may not feel it's worth the time and money to go back unless it's a top 16.

In any case, with these range of schools and assuming you do a good job on executing the written applications and interviews, you should have a reasonable shot at getting in - you have a solid profile that is still traditional but not overly cookie cutter (i.e. you have enough notable experiences that you won't blend in as easily). Again it comes down to choosing a sufficient number of schools across a good range, and in your case the schools that'll likely be a best fit for you (marketing, entrepreneurship, general mgmt) are: Kellogg, Sloan, Haas, Duke, Darden, Ross, and UCLA.

Good luck

Again if you're looking to work in Europe post-MBA, then you should focus on the Euro schools. There's plenty of engineers and technical folks at these schools, and many of them go in with the intention of making a career change.

Alex,

Thank you very much for the information! This is very helpful!

AN MBA FOR ENTREPRENEURSHIP? AN ALTERNATE PATH

One of the most common aspirations of many MBA applicants and students is wanting to start a business of their own one day. In prior posts, I have cast doubts on whether an MBA is even worth it for aspiring entrepreneurs (at least those who are looking to start a business in the short-term), but I also recognize that it's just my opinion that others may disagree with. So what I write below assumes that if an MBA was worthwhile for an aspiring entrepreneur, what is one way to navigate the transition from MBA student to entrepreneur?

There are many hurdles in making this a reality. The economic cycle certainly matters, since in good times one is more likely to be optimistic and risk taking compared to bad times when it may be wiser to hunker down. Financial circumstances also matter: with many MBAs taking on significant debt to pay for school, it may be too much to take on that much risk in the shorter-term. Another blindingly obvious hurdle is simply not having a compelling enough idea - that one is in love with the idea of entrepreneurship, without a specific enough business concept in which to channel all that love.

Oftentimes though, as great as all these hurdles may be, the biggest one is simply fear of the unknown. Even those who have started their own side businesses before, there can still be this fear of taking that big leap into becoming a full-time entrepreneur - because the stakes are much bigger if one is looking to make a full-time living from the business.

And in many ways, the psychological shift from working for someone else to being one's own boss is a big leap not unlike any major life transition (becoming a spouse, to becoming a parent, and so forth). It not only changes the way you work, but changes the way you see your work. And that can be a scary thing because it plants a series of self-sabotaging questions in the back of your head that you may be afraid to answer:

If it fails, will I be tough enough to cope with the aftermath? If it's successful, what if I don't like being an entrepreneur?

We are as scared of failure as we are of success, especially when we anticipate that it involves upending our status quo (making a big shift in what we do and who we are in the workplace) to even make that leap. For many aspiring entrepreneurs coming out of business school, it will mark the first time they would be working for themselves on a full-time basis.

Being one's own boss has been romanticized in our culture, and so much emotional energy can be invested in the fantasy of being the next great pioneer, the next self-made billionaire. And I think most people with notions of starting a business recognize on an instinctive level that it's not all roses, because if it were that romantic and glamorous, there would be a lot more entrepreneurs out there.

Regardless of which hurdles are the key drivers in preventing you from making that leap, one alternative is this:

Work for a startup.

You don't have to start your own business right away. While work cultures can vary from one startup to the next, at many startups the chaotic and fluid nature of your workweek and responsibilities requires a different mentality than working for an established company.

Working at a startup (or a more established VC-backed company) can give you a taste for what's to come. Not only will you get broader responsibilities that have a more direct impact on the company, you will also have more leeway to define what your responsibilities are, as well as initiate and execute ideas without running into a clusterf*ck of committee meetings and approvals. Even if you officially have a "boss" (usually the founders), it can feel more like you're working WITH them and not FOR them.

While it's not the same as actually running your own company as a founder/CEO, working at a startup can give you experience in the trenches - allowing you to experience what it truly feels like, while giving you a bird's eye view of what the founders are going through. And experiencing that startup environment will either scare you away from it, or embolden you in the future to start your own. Or you can walk away from it still unsure, but with that experience, there's less "fear of the unknown" should an opportunity to start your own business comes up years (if not decades) down the road.

Again, if you have a business idea and you're ready to go full steam ahead, go for it! But if you don't have one, you're unsure, or there's hurdles you can't overcome at this point in your life, don't fret -- you can always work for a startup for now, make the most of that experience and take it from there.

Hi Alex,

I understand you must have a lot of messages coming in to your inbox and I do apologize to have to add to that number. The reason for my post is because I would like to ask your honest advice on a choice I'm supposed to make.

I am currently a 22 year old- fresh grad living in Southeast Asia. I graduated from second tier university in the States with a 3.8 GPA in Civil & Environmental Engineering. I took the GMAT and got a 740. I have recently been offered a job to work with either Deloitte Consulting or Roland Berger Strategy Consultants. However, although Deloitte enjoys a better name in the U.S, Roland Berger is known to do better work in Asia, although still smaller in size.

However, in thinking about going to B-school down the road, it seems schools such as Harvard take in a considerable amount from Deloitte and less so from Roland Berger. My question to you then is, in terms of getting into the top 3 B-schools in the U.S, does it make a difference if I come from Roland Berger vs. Deloitte? Or to make it a bit broader, between the consulting companies ex- MBBs.

I understand, it is a small part of the overall application. However, I would like the best chances available to get into a top B-school and would really love to hear you advice. A few sentences of your viewpoint would be really cool.

Thank you so much and I look forward to your reply.


Warm wishes

There is not enough of a difference in overall rep of the firms to matter -- focus on the one that will give you more interesting work and with people you'd rather work for (and/or learn from).

And no, HBS does not take a considerable amount from Deloitte or any Big-4 firm; their bread and butter are MBB consultants.

Hi Alex,

I'm planning to apply to Sloan in Round 2, Kellogg/HBS/Haas/UCLA in Round 3. I will do GMAT at the end of October. Apart from Sloan (which doesn't have round 3), should I also apply another one during round 2 because applying in Round 3 is a really bad idea? Thank you!

Avoid R3. You have plenty of time to do the GMAT *and* submit the applications in time for R2 deadlines. Focus on the GMAT now, get it out of the way first, and then you can dive into the applications (which should take around 4-8 weeks total to complete 4-7 schools).

Hi Alex,

As discussed, wanted to share with you my profile and enquire about suitability of schools.

- 2.5 years of experience (as of yet); 2 with EY and a 6 month stint with KPMG - have demonstrated fast career progression
- Been a start-up fanatic, currently running an international start-up with presence in eleven countries - model is via product store, services offered, and a live blog: a for-profit social entrepreneurial initiative
- Involved with social entrepreneurial roles outside work - funding for a rural start-up which is a Wharton study; aiding a World economic forum fellow, etc
- Managed football team at EY and won awards, leadership roles in school, college and work - Sports Captain, College Representative, etc.

- Long term career goal is to be a maximum impact social entrepreneur and a politician, have actively worked toward these goals, currently work with a political outfit on an innovative plan to improve the lives of people living in the constituency
- Passed out of University of Delhi with an aggregate of 64%: top 10% of passing class

GMAT Score: 710 (Q48, V40) ; AWA 6, though messed up with an IR of 1

Schools I am keen on: HarVard, Wharton, MIT Sloan, Yale, Keloggs, Indian School of Business, Chicago Booth

Please do share your inputs, thanks again

In short, you are overshooting.

Big-4 guys are essentially a long shot at HBS -- forget it. Your chances are basically slim to none especially for a Big-4 person who is coming out of India.

As for Wharton, Sloan, Kellogg, Booth -- they will be stretches for Big-4 folks. For someone like yourself based in India, they will likely be long shots or big stretches. Focus on 0-1 school as your lottery ticket.

Where you should focus is on the following:

Top 16: Yale, Stern, Cornell, Ross, Darden, Duke, UCLA. These schools are stretches but where you have enough of a shot that they're at least worth giving a serious shot. Choose 2-3 from this list.

Top 30: Georgetown, Maryland, Emory, UNC, USC, Texas, Tepper, Purdue, Indiana. These schools are sweet spots where you have more of a reasonable shot of getting into. Choose 2-3 from this list.

Outside the top 30: these would be safeties. Choose 0-1 from this tier.

ISB would be similar to a top 30 (sweet spot), as would European programs like Oxford, Cambridge, HEC, IESE, ESADE, IE. The top Euro programs like INSEAD and LBS will be big stretches (closer to a US top 8).

Hello Alex,

I would sincerely appreciate an honest critique of my current profile and targeted schools/programs. Thank you very much.

US Male, American Born Chinese
Age 25
Undergrad: Topish Liberal Arts School (Colgate, Bucknell, Lehigh, Lafayette etc...)
Major: BS Biology BA Economics
GPA: 3.4 Overall, 3.5 Biology, 3.8 Economics
GMAT: First Score 690 (47 Quant, 38 Verbal) Second Score 660 (50 Quant, 29 Verbal) 6.0 AWA both times, 8 IR first time, 5 IR second time
Work Experience- 2-3 years- Investment Banking Internship at Middle Market Firm, Analyst at SK-China Real Estate (Property acquisition and management), Portfolio Management Analyst at MetLife China
Leadership Roles in College and NPO
Work Experience in both USA and China
Learned how to read and write Chinese in just a year (Goal was to be able to read a Chinese newspaper within a year) and lived in China for 2 years, Did not previously know Chinese even though I am a Chinese Born American
Personally invests in both US and Chinese Stock Markets

Goals: To get a solid financial education given my science background and work in areas like Healthcare or Cleantech IB/PE (Like I did during my banking internship) but with China, Chinese financial opportunities (Capital raising, project/deal sourcing, etc....), work at a managerial level for a Clean tech/Waste management firm, or any new possible areas I may find interesting during the course of my MBA education.

Targeted Programs: Wharton Chinese Lauder Program, UC Berkeley MBA+Masters Public Health Mgmt or MBA+Master International Relations, Duke MBA+Master of Eniv Mgmt, Columbia, NYU Stern, and Dartmouth (The latter 3 are just full time MBA programs)

In short, your chances are slim at top 8's like Wharton, Columbia, Tuck and Haas with your current GMAT. Keep in mind that the majority of Asian/Asian-American applicants are in finance like yourself, and so there's more than enough who will have stronger GMATs than you. To be competitive, you realistically need a 720+. And even then, they will be stretches but where at least you have enough of a shot.

For top 16's like Stern and Duke, you will still need a 700 or else the GMAT will be a big handicap, again simply because you're up against a lot of folks like yourself who will have stronger scores than you.

Do whatever it takes to boost that score - it's your biggest handicap at this point.

Thank you, I sent you a pm with a further question

Alex, I was really hoping that you would be able to provide some insight with my profile here.

GMAT: 740
Undergraduate GPA: 3.44 (finance major at a top undergrad business program)
Work Experience: 2 years in Consulting in a Big 4 Firm (highly rated)
Extra Circulars: Nothing special to note.. lead a few internal intiatives at work

Target Schools: Columbia, Berkley, NYU, Penn, Northwestern (all 2 year full time MBA programs)

Can you please let me know if my target schools are realistic? I am looking to transition into a more finance role preferablly in real estate. Any advice as to whether I should be aiming for different schools would be very useful.

A couple of things:

1. Most big-4 folks tend to have 3-5 years of experience at application (or 4-6 years at matriculation), so you'll be at a disadvantage there.

2. Even with 1-2 years more experience, you are overshooting. Top 8 schools like Wharton, Kellogg, Columbia, Booth, Tuck, Sloan and Haas are stretches -- tough for Big-4 folks to get in but where there's still enough of a chance that they're worth applying to 1-2 (but go in with realistic expectations). Schools in the top 16 are where you'll likely have more luck -- schools like NYU, Cornell, Yale, Ross, Duke, Darden, and UCLA are where you should focus your efforts on (choose 3-4 from this list).

deleted

So you ignored my advice last time -- and now you're asking for my advice once more (so you can ignore it again?).

Honestly you're overshooting. And no, there's nothing you can really do in the next year to fundamentally change where you stand in terms of the schools you should be targeting.

Top 8: these are big stretches. Maybe look at 1 school as your lottery ticket (choose 1 of CBS, Booth, Kellogg, Sloan, Tuck, Haas, LBS, INSEAD).

Top 16: these are your slight stretches to sweet spots and where you should focus on almost exclusively. Choose 4-5 from Ross, Duke, Darden, Stern, Cornell, Yale, UCLA.

Top 30 and beyond: these are reasonable safeties. Choose 1-2 from Oxford, Cambridge, the Canadian schools (Ivey, Queen's, Rotman), and the regional US schools like Texas, Tepper, Georgetown, Purdue, Indiana, UNC, USC, Maryland, Emory, etc.).