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While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other

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While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 21 Jun 2012, 01:55
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While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other types of power plants, it is the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants that makes it more expensive for them to generate electricity.

A. While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other types of power plants, it is the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants that makes it more expensive for them to generate electricity.
B While the cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as for other types of power plants, the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants make the electricity they generate more expensive.
C. Even though it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as for other types of power plants, it is the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants that makes the electricity they generate more expensive.
D. It costs about the same to run nuclear plants as for other types of power plants, whereas the electricity they generate is more expensive, stemming from the fixed costs of building nuclear plants.
E. The cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as other types of power plants, but the electricity they generate is made more expensive because of the fixed costs stemming from building nuclear plants.
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

Last edited by macjas on 21 Jun 2012, 16:52, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 21 Jun 2012, 04:53
B for sure.

A) The costs of running nuclear plants are compared with other types of plants. Incorrect.
B) Correct. Compares the costs correctly and there is no pronoun ambiguity either.
C) 'to run'....'as for' is ungrammatical and incorrect usage. Incorrect.
D) Same issue as C. Incorrect.
E) Same issue as A. Incorrect.

B it is.
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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 21 Jun 2012, 09:49
In B "costs" is plural. Is the verb " is" correct here.

please explain
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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 21 Jun 2012, 09:57
That's the problem with posting questions of dubious origins.
TomB wrote:
In B "costs" is plural. Is the verb " is" correct here.

please explain


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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 21 Jun 2012, 16:53
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TomB wrote:
In B "costs" is plural. Is the verb " is" correct here.

please explain


Sorry; typo fixed. BTW. this is from OG13. No 'dubiosity' here OldFritz, just a typo..
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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 08 Sep 2012, 10:18
But doesn't B change the meaning? B talks about the electricity becoming more expensive but the original sentence talks about it becoming more expensive for the plant to generate electricity.
These are two different things.

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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 08 Sep 2012, 13:56
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There are two distinct splits here, as you may see; one is the comparison of the costs to run a nuclear plant with just the other types of plants and not their running costs. The second split is the ambiguity of the pronouns, precisely the –third - it in the original. Of course the other two it pronouns may be argued as passable as place holders.

A. While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other types of power plants, it is the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants that makes it more expensive for them to generate electricity. ----- 1.faulty comparison; cost of running compared with other types of power plants 2. The third pronoun it is dangling without an antecedent. Makes what more expensive? Makes electricity more expensive to generate electricity 3. Costs that makes … A SV mismatch


B While the cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as for other types of power plants, the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants make the electricity they generate more expensive.
The comparison, the pronoun problem and the SV mismatch nicely fixed. Correct choice.

C. Even though it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as for other types of power plants, it is the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants that makes the electricity they generate more expensive. -----Though the comparison problems are fixed, costs and that makes is S-V mismatch.

D. It costs about the same to run nuclear plants as for other types of power plants, whereas the electricity they generate is more expensive, stemming from the fixed costs of building nuclear plants.
Pronoun they is rather ambiguous; they may refer to either the nuclear or other types.

E. The cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as other types of power plants, but the electricity they generate is made more expensive because of the fixed costs stemming from building nuclear plants. -------- Faulty comparison
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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 16 Sep 2012, 22:39
One more imp learning from this SC:

A costs the same as B- sub to sub comparison
The costs of running A is same for B---Obj to Obj comparison need Preposition
{Got this rule from Magoosh video so can rely on it :wave }

Analysis based on above rules:
A. While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other types of power plants, it is the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants that makes it more expensive for them to generate electricity.->correct

Use of "makes " is wrong, Also "It is" in second clause is not needed [/color]

B While the cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as for other types of power plants, the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants make the electricity they generate more expensive.->Correct

C. Even though it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as for other types of power plants, it is the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants that makes the electricity they generate more expensive.-> wrong we don't need prep here

D. It costs about the same to run nuclear plants as for other types of power plants, whereas the electricity they generate is more expensive, stemming from the fixed costs of building nuclear plants.--> wrong same as C

E. The cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as other types of power plants, but the electricity they generate is made more expensive because of the fixed costs stemming from building nuclear plants.----> wrong Need a preposition
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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 13 Jan 2013, 11:10
daagh wrote:
There are two distinct splits here, as you may see; one is the comparison of the costs to run a nuclear plant with just the other types of plants and not their running costs. The second split is the ambiguity of the pronouns, precisely the –third - it in the original. Of course the other two it pronouns may be argued as passable as place holders.

A. While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other types of power plants, it is the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants that makes it more expensive for them to generate electricity. ----- 1.faulty comparison; cost of running compared with other types of power plants 2. The third pronoun it is dangling without an antecedent. Makes what more expensive? Makes electricity more expensive to generate electricity 3. Costs that makes … A SV mismatch


B While the cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as for other types of power plants, the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants make the electricity they generate more expensive.
The comparison, the pronoun problem and the SV mismatch nicely fixed. Correct choice.

C. Even though it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as for other types of power plants, it is the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants that makes the electricity they generate more expensive. -----Though the comparison problems are fixed, costs and that makes is S-V mismatch.

D. It costs about the same to run nuclear plants as for other types of power plants, whereas the electricity they generate is more expensive, stemming from the fixed costs of building nuclear plants.
Pronoun they is rather ambiguous; they may refer to either the nuclear or other types.

E. The cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as other types of power plants, but the electricity they generate is made more expensive because of the fixed costs stemming from building nuclear plants. -------- Faulty comparison


Daagh,

Can you please clarify this -

'doesn't B change the meaning? B talks about the electricity becoming more expensive but the original sentence talks about it becoming more expensive for the plant to generate electricity. These are two different things'
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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 14 Jan 2013, 23:57
why D is wrong ? pls explain fully. Thank you
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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 16 Mar 2013, 03:38
sujit2k7 wrote:
One more imp learning from this SC:

A costs the same as B- sub to sub comparison
The costs of running A is same for B---Obj to Obj comparison need Preposition
{Got this rule from Magoosh video so can rely on it :wave }

B While the cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as for other types of power plants, the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants make the electricity they generate more expensive.->Correct



Hi,
Can someone please clarify my doubt.
How ellipsis is playing its part over here. I understand that we either needs to use verb (in case of Subject to Subject comparison so that the comparison is not ambiguous) or apply preposition so as to make Object - Object comparison.

Here Object of preposition is {running nuclear plants} and {other types of power plants} -> how they both are logically parallel?
Request you to provide insights.

Thanks
H
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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 16 Mar 2013, 09:22
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When expanded in full (with ellipsis in brackets), B will be
B While the cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as for (the cost of running) other types of power plants, the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants make the electricity they generate more expensive.
The comparison is still between the costs of running one type with the costs for running other types. The only difference is that in the first case we are using ‘of’ as the preposition while in the second arm, we are using ‘for’. As long as we use a preposition for another acceptable preposition, the comparison can be considered be logical and parallel, IMO.

As far as B changing the meaning from the original, I feel the meaning is flawed. There is no way we can ascertain what the “it” stands for. The term ‘it’ does not convey clearly and logically the intended meaning. Hence we have to amend it. B is logical.
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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 16 Mar 2013, 10:41
Thanks daagh for your reply.

I understand that the answer B is best amongst all, and conveys the logical meaning perfectly.
However, I am still not convinced about the sentence structure. Can you please elaborate a bit more on your reasoning.

I tried to understand this concept by taking clues from MGMAT, but failed to do so. I would appreciate if someone can help me out.

Here is an example from MGMAT-
The incidence of the disease among men exceeds the incidence among women.
The incidence of the disease among men exceeds that among women.
Here, that is referring to incidence, per explanantion from MGMAT.

So, ellipsis should be -
The incidence of the disease among men exceeds that(of the disease) among women.
Now, going by same concept -

The cost of running nuclear plants is same as that for electric plants.
In the below sentence, what THAT is referring to . Is it "the cost" or "the cost of running".

If it is later, then why do we require an extra preposition?

The cost of running nuclear plants is same as {the cost of running }for electric plants.

Appreciate your help
Thanks
H

daagh wrote:
When expanded in full (with ellipsis in brackets), B will be
B While the cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as for (the cost of running) other types of power plants, the fixed costs that stem from building nuclear plants make the electricity they generate more expensive.
The comparison is still between the costs of running one type with the costs for running other types. The only difference is that in the first case we are using ‘of’ as the preposition while in the second arm, we are using ‘for’. As long as we use a preposition for another acceptable preposition, the comparison can be considered be logical and parallel, IMO.

As far as B changing the meaning from the original, I feel the meaning is flawed. There is no way we can ascertain what the “it” stands for. The term ‘it’ does not convey clearly and logically the intended meaning. Hence we have to amend it. B is logical.

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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 16 Mar 2013, 12:50
You see, leaving apart too many rules, we need to chose the answer which is best out of the given options. All other choices except for B, in the question above, have noticeable grammar issues. Quite unlike, Choice B, only uses an additional preposition, which if you notice, most other choices uses as well, so...we choose an option which overcomes other more critical grammar issues (the logical comparison and SV error)
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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 16 Mar 2013, 20:54
Yes, I do understand that Choice B is best amongst all, and this is what I have mentioned above as well.
But, I also acknowledge the fact that there is always something to learn from every correct official answer, and that learning should be carried forward. That is the only way to improve.


sdas wrote:
You see, leaving apart too many rules, we need to chose the answer which is best out of the given options. All other choices except for B, in the question above, have noticeable grammar issues. Quite unlike, Choice B, only uses an additional preposition, which if you notice, most other choices uses as well, so...we choose an option which overcomes other more critical grammar issues (the logical comparison and SV error)

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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 17 Mar 2013, 06:45
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I agree with you fully;
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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 17 Mar 2013, 10:05
I am glad to direct my question to Daagh then, what is the context of using this additional preposition? As per the meaning of the sentence, it is not absolutely needed, but again its the best choice out of all, so what is it that we should learn from this choice B, will be keen to know
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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 18 Mar 2013, 13:01
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imhimanshu wrote:
I tried to understand this concept by taking clues from MGMAT, but failed to do so. I would appreciate if someone can help me out.

Here is an example from MGMAT-
The incidence of the disease among men exceeds the incidence among women.
The incidence of the disease among men exceeds that among women.
Here, that is referring to incidence, per explanantion from MGMAT.

So, ellipsis should be -
The incidence of the disease among men exceeds that(of the disease) among women.
Now, going by same concept -

The cost of running nuclear plants is same as that for electric plants.
In the below sentence, what THAT is referring to . Is it "the cost" or "the cost of running".

If it is later, then why do we require an extra preposition?

The cost of running nuclear plants is same as {the cost of running }for electric plants.

Appreciate your help
Thanks
H


Very interesting question Himanshu.
When you are dealing with ellipsis, it always helps to begin from the completely expanded version with all the words and then move your way to the abbreviated version by applying ellipsis along the way. I will do the same here:

Let's consider only the pertinent portion of the sentence.

1. The cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as the cost of running other types of power plants.
No issues here with the comparison. Both sides of the comparison are grammatically and logically parallel.

Now what if I replace "the cost of running" with "that". After it is obvious that we are comparing cost of running of the two categories of plants. But when I apply this ellipsis, I need something to connect "that" with "other types of power plants".

2. (Without connection with that)
The cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as that other types of power plants. WRONG

2. (with correct connection)
The cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as that for other types of power plants.
So this is where the preposition "for" comes from.

Now we continue with our ellipsis. We can indeed even omit "that" from here since this omission will not lead to any ambiguity.

3. The cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as for other types of power plants.

So this is how I get to the correct sentence containing "for".

Now let's apply the same on the set of sentences:
1. The incidence of the disease among men exceeds the incidence of the disease among women.
1 to 2 - The incidence of the disease among men exceeds the incidence of the disease among women.
2. The incidence of the disease among men exceeds the incidence among women.
2 to 3 - The incidence of the disease among men exceeds the incidence among women.
3. The incidence of the disease among men exceeds that among women.


Image

So the key thing here is that as you replace or omit words, think about what connections you may need to get the correct sentence. The nature of the two sentences is different. In the Official sentence, the main component - cost of running - took direct object without the need of any preposition. So when we replaced this with "that" we needed a connection - i.e. a preposition. However, in the other example, the main component - incidence of the disease - itself needed a preposition to connect to the object and hence when we replaced it with "that" we did not need to get another preposition.

Thus when you cross-check your work in ellipsis, start from the complete sentence and then work your way to simplified version with replacement words and omitted words.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Payal
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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 18 Mar 2013, 17:56
Thanks Payal for providing great insights.Kudos to you and your team.

So, preposition can be used in following two ways
1) For removing the ambiguity in the sentence, whether we are comparing subject or object.
e.g John is more interested in video games than {in} his girlfriend. Here, we are comparing objects of prepositions, and we need preposition to clarify the meaning else it will result in ambiguity.
2) The usage of prepositions is as mentioned by you. It could work as a connector with the ellipsis element(that).


2 to 3 - The incidence of the disease among men exceeds the incidence among women.
3. The incidence of the disease among men exceeds that among women.


One question - Can we clear off "that" in the final sentence.
i.e The incidence of the disease among men exceeds among women.

I believe, had the sentence been The incidence of the disease among men exceeds women., then the sentence would have been ambiguous, because then the comparison could be b/w the incidence vs women or men or women.

egmat wrote:
Very interesting question Himanshu.
When you are dealing with ellipsis, it always helps to begin from the completely expanded version with all the words and then move your way to the abbreviated version by applying ellipsis along the way. I will do the same here:

Let's consider only the pertinent portion of the sentence.

1. The cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as the cost of running other types of power plants.
No issues here with the comparison. Both sides of the comparison are grammatically and logically parallel.

Now what if I replace "the cost of running" with "that". After it is obvious that we are comparing cost of running of the two categories of plants. But when I apply this ellipsis, I need something to connect "that" with "other types of power plants".

2. (Without connection with that)
The cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as that other types of power plants. WRONG

2. (with correct connection)
The cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as that for other types of power plants.
So this is where the preposition "for" comes from.

Now we continue with our ellipsis. We can indeed even omit "that" from here since this omission will not lead to any ambiguity.

3. The cost of running nuclear plants is about the same as for other types of power plants.

So this is how I get to the correct sentence containing "for".

Now let's apply the same on the set of sentences:
1. The incidence of the disease among men exceeds the incidence of the disease among women.
1 to 2 - The incidence of the disease among men exceeds the incidence of the disease among women.
2. The incidence of the disease among men exceeds the incidence among women.
2 to 3 - The incidence of the disease among men exceeds the incidence among women.
3. The incidence of the disease among men exceeds that among women.


Image

So the key thing here is that as you replace or omit words, think about what connections you may need to get the correct sentence. The nature of the two sentences is different. In the Official sentence, the main component - cost of running - took direct object without the need of any preposition. So when we replaced this with "that" we needed a connection - i.e. a preposition. However, in the other example, the main component - incidence of the disease - itself needed a preposition to connect to the object and hence when we replaced it with "that" we did not need to get another preposition.

Thus when you cross-check your work in ellipsis, start from the complete sentence and then work your way to simplified version with replacement words and omitted words.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Payal

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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other [#permalink] New post 18 Mar 2013, 18:59
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You are absolutely correct in your understanding. And you are dead on about the ambiguity in the sentence if we omit "that among".

Now you asked about the following sentence - i.e. if we only omitted that and retained among.

The incidence of the disease among men exceeds among women.
IMO, this sentence is also ambiguous since it somehow may consider "incidence of that disease among men" as one entity and when this entity is put together with "among women", it would not make sense.

Let's take another example:
Attraction of child to chocolates exceeds to ice cream. - IMO incorrect
Attraction of child to chocolates exceeds that to ice cream. - Surely Correct.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Payal
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Re: While it costs about the same to run nuclear plants as other   [#permalink] 18 Mar 2013, 18:59
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