Consulting Exit Opportunities

It stands for McKinsey, Bain, and Boston Consulting Group which are the three top management consulting companies that many MBA's either recruit at or come from.

I'm not in IB now, but I did an undergraduate internship at one of the top top tier IBs many years ago. I hated it. Long hours, huge egos and people will do anything to get ahead. Its not a place dominated by friendly folks. Not my style. I'm in corporate / financial services now, and I like it the most by far. Mind you, a BIG part of it why I like it is WHERE I am - not so much because I'm not in consulting... but there are a bunch of things I enjoy:

* I'm developing depth of knowledge and expertise in a field that is finally translating into value add. I can see where my career could be in 3 or 5 years and the options are generally appealing and diverse. (I say finally because I always felt consulting just provided me with a bunch of disconnected experiences that are difficult to integrate. Difficulties in shipments of pigs around the world? Yea, I know something about that. The impact the number of stairs in a given hotel's umbrella insurance policy costs? Yea, know something about that. Developing a strategy for delivering music samples via website? Yea, I know something about that. If I ever find a job that involves sending music clips taped to the back of a pig up and down stairs at various hotels, I'll be the perfect candidate.....)

* My hours are ridiculously good compared to consulting or IB. I largely set my own schedule - leave when I want, come in when I want etc. I'm rewarded on output not on face time. Good luck with that in consulting or IB.

* I travel occasionally for 1 or 2 nights a week, but not more - its a perfect balance in some ways: I get a few nights out with my team, a handful of company paid dinners, a few hotel points to pay for a weekend off somewhere, but its largely on *my* terms - I got when I *need* to go, not because of some expectation that I just be around 5 days a week.

* I have real responsibility. I'm not an excel monkey. I had direct reports from when I started (good luck with that at a consulting firm). I've got P&L. I'm leading financials, economic analysis, marketing strategy, digital strategy, etc. I'm challenged every day. There is something REALLY fun about working on something you don't know how to do.

* I get lots of vacation, a generous retirement plan, various event invitations, subsidized cafeteria, on site concierge, dirt cheap on site gym, generous daycare assistance, free doctor on campus, casual dress code, etc. It's mostly small stuff but it adds up - not just in costs/savings but in just making my life easier and less of a pain. Just picture google and you've probably got a half decent idea.

* I work with a bunch of extremely smart folks who are genuinely friendly and nice. I have something to learn from everyone.

Soooooooo much of this is true because of where I am though - (just about 98% of it) -- take the same job somewhere else and I'd have a completely different experience. The trick is just finding the right job and right culture for you.....Figure out what you want and don't loose sight of it. Its so easy to get distracted by the MBA job option platter... don't.

Rhyme is at a nice place - especially if it works for you (and it does for him). They are an appealing company and one of few growth stories in their industry right now.

Meantime, I am on another track, but I can see the end plan. My hours are flexible (whenever my boss wants me to work, I am working)... but beyond that, actually, my job is really fun. I have done consulting, my experience in that was odd but good (small firm, very unusual project that I will leverage off all my life, if not only in stories in the pub). I would agree in the most part that Consulting is deferring a decision. And from an MBA that is almost deferring a decision having chosen to change your mind and then not made your mind up. Not many people really want to do their job forever - IB, MC, whatever. I actually really like what I do, but I am uncertain I could take the predictable 90 hour weeks for about six weeks a year for too long. It makes something fun, not fun. And try doing math after ten hours sleep in three days. It is horrific.

Rhyme, thanks for a hilarious example of how difficult it could be translate consulting experiences over to another job, that really made my day! In all seriousness though, now that you've settled into a job that's a great fit, do you think it would have been possible to find this position right out of school?

If M/B/B firms are not all that they are cracked up to be, then how come a majority of M/B/B analysts end up at H/W/S? If post-MBA associates are apparently doing meaningless work, then I can't even begin to imagine what analyst fresh out of colleges do.

And if all these firms do is meaningless work, then why on earth do *need* someone with a 3.5GPA + tons of extracurriculars from a top college? Can't these firms just get a "regular" guy from a "regular" college to do that work? Am I missing something here?

I almost sprayed my coffee onto my workstation when I read that.

But in all seriousness, I have to ask Rhyme and others that have MC experience:

What has MC given you that has helped your career or your personal development (and you would not have been able to gain outside of MC)?

Don't take this the wrong way, but from reading the responses, it seems that the biggest thing MC has done for people is shown them what they truly want to do, and what they want out of life (more from a prioritization stand point ie. jack of all trades/master of none vs. depth in a industry, as well as corporate america comforts vs. long work hrs and higher pay). Perhaps this is the greatest benefit to a MC experience? - getting to find yourself rather than the actual job and career path it puts you on?

1) I'd argue this is as much a myth as it is fact. I know lots of MBBs who didn't get into those three schools - and many who went to those schools but didnt come from MBB.

2) There's selection / causality issues here. MBB analysts tend also to be those who had really high GPAs in undergrad, had top notch internships, went to top/ivy league level undergrads, etc. Those are also people who tend to score highly on GMATs, have strong academic credentials, prepare early, etc. MBB hire smart folks, smart folks tend to do well. Is it because they went to MBB or because MBB hires smart people? I'd venture its more the latter than the former.

3) There's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy as well: those consultancies tend to be dominated by top schools, so as an analyst, your recommendations and essays will come from alumni at top schools as well, you thus have a bit of a leg up compared to others, etc.

I have the same general issue with people saying that HBS generates more CEOs or that Booth does X or Y...


Slightly more meaningless work. Jokes aside the work isn't meaningless, just not the earth shattering strategic redirection you might get sold at a recruiting event.


I'd lay out three or four key arguments -- meaningless work doesn't mean it doesn't require skill. Pricing airline parts might be boring and not terribly strategic, but its not necessarily an easy thing to do - you need to know NPV models, you need to understand depreciation, asset treatment, etc. Note also that meaningless is probably a strong word. The work has impact, it just isn't necessarily always sexy.
Two, risk: all an MBA program is access to a pre-screened pool of candidates that you can be reasonably confident are decent, capable individuals. Hiring from a top tier program simply reduces the risk that you mishire.
Third, marketing: Paying $300/hr for a highly educated top tier MBA is an easier sell and more readily justified. Similarly, from the clients perspective if what MBB recommends you do works, you get to say you hired them, if it fails, you get to say you hired the "smartest people and they couldn't get it right". There's a CYA aspect.

Absolutely.... They hire MBAs directly into very similar roles, as do many other firms... but they dont actively recruit. You have to find them yourself. And this is true of many many great firms -- the choice of post MBA options is surprisingly limited if you just rely on what the school will hand you. If you stop and really make a target list of what you want, you'll find a lot of firms not on your 'obvious' radar. (eg I have friends who went to Nissan, Nike -- big name firms that dont typically recruit. Nissan gave my friend an allowance of $750 a month good for any Nissan leases of his choice - he picked up two G35s - nice perk). There's a tendency for people to treat MBA recruiting like a restaurant menu, instead of appetizers, entrees and deserts you've got consulting, banking and corporate - and each part of the menu is perhaps a page long. It's easier to order off the menu than to go talk to the chef and make something different.... Ok I killed that analogy, you get the point.

The best plan for your career is to be unplanned, MBB or no MBB.

Be unplanned, be ambitious and be open to opportunities and most important of all, introspect if you are feeling good about the job you do. Its a myth that you have to suffer initially to be happy later, in job or in life.

That might be the most important advice I have received from a mentor for my career.

Rhyme, Alex and all,

What an outstanding discussion ! I do not get this depth of honest information anywhere !

Since we expanded the subject a bit, what about those with long term plans for entrepreneurship ? Is IB or MBB a good intermediate plan ?

I once read an article (I wish I could find it again) from an entrepreneurship professor from the Sloan/MIT in which he says something like "... it is perfectly understandable that future entrepreneurs go to consulting or IB right after the MBA: these are high-paying jobs and, most important, will provide some valuable skills for them to run their own business in the future... Well, I once thought like him, but I was always ashamed to say that.

I have one very good example in which a transition from MBB to entrepreneurship worked. Two colleagues from college are the founders of a web firm backed by a big international VC fund. One got into MBB right after attending K/Mit/Tuck and the other accepted a high management position in a food firm right after H/S. They both worked for some years before dropping their jobs and starting their company, which does not have any relation with their previous role after BS. Anyway, I understand that my friend who joined MBB got some useful skills and networked in a way that helped him to launch his own business...

In short, I am 100% sure that I want to have my own business in the future, but I am desperately undecided on what to do right after the school. I won't have capital to open my firm right after the MBA, so I thought about IB because of the money (I know, I may be deluded ) and because of exit opportunities such as PE or VC, which seems very attractive to me as a wanna-be entrepreneur.

The thing is, my previous experience in the XXX industry and a MBA can lead me to a nice corporate management position, but I it would make the things much more difficult to reach my future goals.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

In my opinion, not really. You may get some good industry contacts that can help you with things like a little angel investing here or there (or in the case of banking perhaps make enough to fund yourself at least a little) but the people I know who have been successful in becoming entrepreneurs did so despite the fact they had other jobs not because they did. And to presume that either of those is somehow going to magically introduce you to the right people is a pretty crappy bet overall.

And honestly, I dont really even see how the experiences you would get in those roles would be that helpful: learning how to build powerpoint presentations on some IPO or something like that isn't going to really help you figure out how to do sales, hr, marketing, etc. It might help you understand how to structure your VC deal if you ever got one, but I'd probably just hire an advisor and call it a day... do you really need to go through 2 or 3 years of IB and another 2 years at some VC/PE firm (if you can even get in) just to THEN do what you want? And for what? So you can better understand the nuances of stock dilution? It's like my spending five years at an oil refinery so I can better understand how to change oil filters in my car. I don't know how, and I don't care. I'll pay someone who does. Similarly, the strategy work you do at MBB will probably help your analytic skills but again, there's lots of gaps. At least in IB you might argue that the world of things you might do is somewhat well defined, but in MBB who knows....

But most importantly, if you want to be an entrepreneur then go be an entrepreneur. I'll be perfectly blunt with you: people who talk like you are talking don't usually end up doing their own thing. Your concern seems to be one of risk: you don't have capital, expertise, etc and MBB or IB provides a "safety" net. Successful entrepreneurs are willing to take on risk: if the idea of graduating without a job makes you so scared you are willing to go work in IB (which by your own admission, it sounds like you'd hate) then I'd argue you don't have the guts to be an entrepreneur.

That's nothing to be ashamed of: I'm in the same boat. I'd love to own my own company - but I've come to realize a few things: (1) The risk is not to my appetite (I have a kid, wife, etc). The untold riches are appealing but past $200K I think its all just funny money anyway, at least to me (2) I'm more in love with the fantasy of owning my own company. The reality of it kind of sucks. I worked for myself for 3 years when I was in my early twenties - and I made more then than I do now -- a lot more -- but the stress was much higher: would I loose a contract, how could I keep that contract, what if this happened, how do I position X, what if I piss off the CEO or the CFO.... how do I deliver something for three clients at the same time, vacations became expensive and risky - health insurance was a bear - etc. One of my entrepreneurship professors put it so well, and I will never do the moment justice but it went something like this: We were reading a case about three friends from Harvard who decided to quit their jobs and open up a chain of ice cream stores (I think it was) in Florida or somewhere. They had to pick from three locations to start, they had a partner who was a bit difficult... I dont remember the details exactly but the short version is that you could tell a bunch of people in the room were getting excited at the business idea these guys had (I promise it was slightly more interesting but I dont recall exactly what) -- many in the room, myself included, probably thought to themselves "now see, thats awesome... own a chain of places. I should do that" and the professor smirked and said "Yea, 16 hour days overseeing a bunch of teenager potheads in an ice cream store, that sounds awesome. Where do I sign up?" Anyway, silly story, my point is just that the idea of entrepreneurship is generally sexier than the reality.



Interesting - why wouldnt you think this would be the way to go? (1) You'd develop depth of expertise in a field (as opposed to none in 20 fields with MBB) giving both the knowledge and credibility (to a VC) that you can deliver something (2) You'd likely make strong connections in the industry, (3) Corp Mgmt / Gnl Mgmt is closer to entrepreneurship in some ways -- you might have P&L, marketing, legal, hr, finance, etc experience all of which are (I'd argue) more relevant to learning how to run your own firm than nature of, say, debt restructurings or designing valuations models for airplane parts.

Whatever I've rambled. My general point is the same: If you want to do X, then go do X. Why waste years of your life doing something you wont want and dont enjoy because, maybe, somehow, one day those years of frustrating pain and unhappiness might translate in some intangible way to get you closer to what you wanted in the first place?

There's an old joke that goes something like this. An MBA was on vacation in some tropical land when he came by a fisherman with a small boat. The fisherman was cutting up some grouper. The MBA asked the fisherman "oh how nice these fish, was a lot of work to get them?" The fisherman said "only a little". So the MBA says "Why not catch more?" The Fisherman says "Well, I catch enough to feed my family, come in, play with my kids, take a nap in the afternoon, have a few drinks at night with my wife and my friends." The MBA laughs "Oh silly one! I will help you! First, get more fish!" the fisherman says "okay, but what then?" the mba says "Then you buy a bigger boat!" and the fisherman says "Okay, but then what?" and the MBA says "You buy a fleet of boats and you expand your operation to tuna and yellowtail!" the fisherman says "Ok and then?" the MBA replies "Well, after 10 or 15 years, you move to LA and run a global fishing empire". The fisherman says, "Well this is interesting but I dont want to own a company". The MBA replies "Ah but thats the best part! After 20 years or so, you IPO, go public and make millions and millions of dollars!" The fishmeran says "Well, that sounds pretty good. But what then?" The MBA Replies "Ah well, after 20 years of hard work, when the time is right, you can retire to some tropical land, get a small boat, fish when you want, play with your kids, take a nap in the afternoon and have a few drinks at night with your wife and friends"

rhyme: I remember that story from the Four-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss (which by the way, is an excellent book that everybody should read, especially anyone who has ever had any inkling of wanting to be an entrepreneur) =)

Rhyme,

Again, thanks very much for your insights ! And I have to say that my English is also getting benefited from reading your posts.



You are correct, this fear of not having a job after the MBA or the aversion of taking risks is somewhat unacceptable to an entrepreneur. In fact, I come from a culture in which the best route is to take a "safe" job in a highly respected corporation that will "take care of you and your family". In addition, in my country the entrepreneurial culture is much less "rooted" than in the US. My friends who attended or are attending the top MBA programs in the USA get astonished by how well their American colleagues deals with the inherent risks of an entrepreneurial endeavor. In my country people are much more concerned of taking risks, making very careful steps only when the "way" is very well defined. Americans, on the contrary, seems to deal much better with risks and, as you said, have the guts to go forward even with a not paved road. I have been reading a book called "Starting From Scratch: Secrets from 22 Ordinary People Who Made the Entrepreneurial Leap" and although it is a so-so book, it defines one of the very basic steps of a becoming an entrepreneur: underestimate your obstacles. In my country people tend to overestimate the obstacles and so I decided to learn how to manage a business in the US !

Anyway, you have captured some of my concerns, thanks for the slap on my face !

Still, I am willing to take the risks of becoming an entrepreneur, I am just not sure if I will be able to do it just after B. school.




The thing is that after working in the corporate world, even enjoying my job, I believe that one can do have multiples careers in his/her lifetime. I always dreamed of owning my company. I have to go for it and break my face, otherwise I will be frustrated forever.



I can not identify my previous experience, but it is an industry in which it is very hard for a small company to "break in"...

This thread is amazing...I love hearing the wisdom of ppl who have been there and done that.

Rhyme, one of the things you say is 'if you seek x, go do x'.

but I don't think that's necessarily realistic (btw Im going to start first year mba at georgetown). because just because I want to do something doesn't mean I can do it. maybe my school doesn't even offer the corporate position that you enjoy currently or the dream position i want. so often ppl have to take an intermediary position, ie in consulting or finance, because they simply can't just land their ideal position or don't know how.

A lot of people get MBA because they want to try something else or they are currently unhappy with where their career (or lack there of) is headed.

I agree with rhyme that you shouldn't simply settle for a "realistic option". If you want to do banking, go for it. If you want to do consulting, go for it. Worst thing that can happen to you after 2 yrs of expensive tuition, is settling for a career without really gunning for that dream job. It doesn't matter what your background is, or how competitive your classmates are. When making predictions or guesses, we have to stop thinking in a "linear equation". Linear equation is unrealistic and hopefully while in bschool, you will learn not to rely on such method (like learning to calculate bond convexity curves). MBA is not a magical degree that can transform everyone into a superstar, but you will pick up useful tools here and there. You will also get chances for opportunities that you haven't considered before. So, think big and go for that dream job but make sure that while you are working to land that dream job, also work on fall-back options. After all, if you invest a huge sum of money and buy a Ferrari, wouldn't you want to see how fast it can run? (or will you go for the safe-route and drive in under 40mph at all times?) If you do end up driving over 120mph, make sure to wear a seat-belt and have a really good life insurance....

Are you saying you want to apply for the job? Your life insurance premium may go up.

I feel like you and rhyme can give your advice because presumably both of you have jobs that you like and have security in that.

If I were to chase my dream job, most likely I will not succeed (considering my background and the fact that Im not going to harvard)...hence in the end, I will graduate broke, in debt, and unemployed if I simply try to look for what I want to do rather than what I can do. I'd rather not be an unemployed bum upon graduation simply because I only sought ideal job as opposed to a practical job.