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Re: M20-12 [#permalink]
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awal_786@hotmail.com wrote:
I understood how you made this circle, but I can't understand how you made this blue line and computed probability from this :shock:


The blue line is y = x + 1. The area above it is y > x + 1. So, all the points for which y-coordinate is greater than x-coordinate + 1.
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Re: M20-12 [#permalink]
Hi Bunuel,

Shouldn't it be 1/4 of the area rather than circumference ?

Please confirm.

Regards
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vinnik wrote:
Hi Bunuel,

Shouldn't it be 1/4 of the area rather than circumference ?

Please confirm.

Regards


Original question does not ask about the area, it asks about the portion of the circumference

If it were: set T consists of all points (x,y) such that \(x^2+y^2<1\) (so set T consists of all points inside the circle). If point (a,b) is selected from set T at random, what is the probability that b>a+1?

Then as the area of the segment of the circle which is above the line is \(\frac{\pi{r^2}}{4}-\frac{r^2}{2}=\frac{\pi-2}{4}\) so \(P=\frac{area_{segment}}{area_{circle}}=\frac{\frac{\pi-2}{4}}{\pi{r^2}}=\frac{\pi-2}{4\pi}\).

Hope it's clear.
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Re: M20-12 [#permalink]
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Bunuel Hi,
I have a question. The line b>a+1 in the graph, contains all the values on which side of the circumference of the circle, right(Quadrant 1,3,4) or left(Quadrant 2)?

Thanks
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Re: M20-12 [#permalink]
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sathishm07 wrote:
Bunuel Hi,
I have a question. The line b>a+1 in the graph, contains all the values on which side of the circumference of the circle, right(Quadrant 1,3,4) or left(Quadrant 2)?

Thanks



The blue line is y = x + 1. The area above it is y > x + 1. So, all the points for which y-coordinate is greater than x-coordinate + 1.
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for choosing left and right
you can substitute origin(0,0) in the equation y>x+1
=> 0>1 which is not correct .
Hence origin doesn't satisfy the equation thus it is on the side not containing the origin.

Originally posted by ShravyaAlladi on 19 Jul 2016, 00:35.
Last edited by ShravyaAlladi on 19 Jul 2016, 00:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: M20-12 [#permalink]
I think this is a high-quality question and I agree with explanation.
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x^2+y^2=1. therefore it is a circle with radius 1. (put x=0 , y=+1/-1 similarly, y=0, x=+1/-1. gives the points where the line will cross the axes). Draw the circle.

since we are concerned about points inside this circle so (x,y) should not exceed +1/-1.
b>a+1 is only possible when a is negative greater than -1. this gives positive b; for eg. if a=-0.5 then b>0.5.
so all points (a,b) will be in IInd quadrant.
X & Y axis divides the circle in 4 parts. out of the 4 (a,b) can lie on only 1 quadrant. therefor probability will be 1/4
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Re: M20-12 [#permalink]
I think this is a high-quality question and the explanation isn't clear enough, please elaborate. "You can see that portion of the circle which is above the line is 1/4 of the circumference of the circle"--

How did u conclude this? Please show calculation
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Re: M20-12 [#permalink]
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Subham10 wrote:
I think this is a high-quality question and the explanation isn't clear enough, please elaborate. "You can see that portion of the circle which is above the line is 1/4 of the circumference of the circle"--

How did u conclude this? Please show calculation


This should be easy. I'll give you the hints and let you figure out the rest.

1. The circle is centred at the origin, so each quadrant has 1/4 of the circumference.
2. y = x + 1 cuts the x and y-axis at (-1, 0) and (0, 1) respectively at the same exact points the circle cuts the axis.
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Re: M20-12 [#permalink]
Hi Bunuel,

A small doubt. Though i agree with solution and got the same answer but in case if we are selecting 1/4 of the circumference, we are including either the point (-1,0) or the point (0,1) and none of them satisfies the condition.
So shouldn't exact answer be a little less than 1/4.
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Re: M20-12 [#permalink]
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asthagupta wrote:
Hi Bunuel,

A small doubt. Though i agree with solution and got the same answer but in case if we are selecting 1/4 of the circumference, we are including either the point (-1,0) or the point (0,1) and none of them satisfies the condition.
So shouldn't exact answer be a little less than 1/4.


A point has no dimension, so it does not matter. The same way a line has only one dimension, length, but no area.
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Re: M20-12 [#permalink]
Bunuel wrote:
vinnik wrote:
Hi Bunuel,

Shouldn't it be 1/4 of the area rather than circumference ?

Please confirm.

Regards


Original question does not ask about the area, it asks about the portion of the circumference

If it were: set T consists of all points (x,y) such that \(x^2+y^2<1\) (so set T consists of all points inside the circle). If point (a,b) is selected from set T at random, what is the probability that b>a+1?

Then as the area of the segment of the circle which is above the line is \(\frac{\pi{r^2}}{4}-\frac{r^2}{2}=\frac{\pi-2}{4}\) so \(P=\frac{area_{segment}}{area_{circle}}=\frac{\frac{\pi-2}{4}}{\pi{r^2}}=\frac{\pi-2}{4\pi}\).

Hope it's clear.


Hi Bunnel,


I've made the exact graphical thought process as you and got the the answer Pi-2/4Pi, which is not in the answer options. It's not clear to me why "Original question does not ask about the area, it asks about the portion of the circumference" as the question asks "Set T consists of all points (x,y) such that x2+y2=1. If point (a,b) is selected from set T at random, what is the probability that b>a+1b>a+1?"

An area can be defined as an infinite number of point. Thus, for me the favorable cases should indeed be an area, since the Set T consists in ALL points that obey to a certain equation.

Could you please clarify?

Thanks a lot!
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Re: M20-12 [#permalink]
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Miracles86 wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
vinnik wrote:
Hi Bunuel,

Shouldn't it be 1/4 of the area rather than circumference ?

Please confirm.

Regards


Original question does not ask about the area, it asks about the portion of the circumference

If it were: set T consists of all points (x,y) such that \(x^2+y^2<1\) (so set T consists of all points inside the circle). If point (a,b) is selected from set T at random, what is the probability that b>a+1?

Then as the area of the segment of the circle which is above the line is \(\frac{\pi{r^2}}{4}-\frac{r^2}{2}=\frac{\pi-2}{4}\) so \(P=\frac{area_{segment}}{area_{circle}}=\frac{\frac{\pi-2}{4}}{\pi{r^2}}=\frac{\pi-2}{4\pi}\).

Hope it's clear.


Hi Bunnel,


I've made the exact graphical thought process as you and got the the answer Pi-2/4Pi, which is not in the answer options. It's not clear to me why "Original question does not ask about the area, it asks about the portion of the circumference" as the question asks "Set T consists of all points (x,y) such that x2+y2=1. If point (a,b) is selected from set T at random, what is the probability that b>a+1b>a+1?"

An area can be defined as an infinite number of point. Thus, for me the favorable cases should indeed be an area, since the Set T consists in ALL points that obey to a certain equation.

Could you please clarify?

Thanks a lot!


Set T consists of all the points on the circumference of the circle only (x^2 + y^2 = 1), NOT the all the points within the circle (x^2 + y^2 < 1), so we should find the probability that the point is ON the circumference but above y = x + 1, NOT the probability that the point is IN the circle but above y = x + 1.

Hope it's clear.
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Re: M20-12 [#permalink]
I think this is a high-quality question and I agree with explanation. Such a bomb of a question! So simple, yet deceiving! Thanks for the question! :)
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Re: M20-12 [#permalink]
I think this is a high-quality question and I agree with explanation.
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Re: M20-12 [#permalink]
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x and y lie between -1 and 1, that is: -1 --- 0 --- 1

Probability than b > a is 50% since they both have an equal chance to be larger than one another

If b > a + 1, then b cannot be negative and must be in the range of 0 --- 1 for the statement to hold true

The number of values that b can hold is reduced by half, and thus the probability is reduced by half, to 25%, or 1/4.
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