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ravitejapandiri
Can any one explain the below problem once again :(I didnt understand even thought it was explained in the above posts.. :(

Problem: 1<x<9. What inequality represents this condition?

A. |x|<3
B. |x+5|<4
C. |x-1|<9
D. |-5+x|<4
E. |3+x|<5

Stuck between C & D

An easy way to interpret these problems is |x-a|<b means that x is within b units of a or mathematically a-b < x < a+b

So these options mean :
A. 0-3<x<0+3
B. -5-4<x<-5+4
C. 1-9<x<1+9

D. 5-4<x<5+4
E. -3-5<x<-3+5
General Discussion
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Of course it can be done using algebra as well. It doesn't matter how many mods there are. you always deal with them in the same way.
|x|= x when x is >= 0,
|x|= -x when x < 0

|x - 2|= (x - 2) when x - 2 >= 0 (or x >= 2),
|x - 2|= -(x - 2) when (x-2) < 0 (or x < 2)

Then you solve the equations using both conditions given above. That is the importance of the points.
So if you have:
|x - 2|= |x + 3|

You say, |x - 2|= (x - 2) when x >= 2.
|x - 2|= -(x - 2) when x < 2
|x + 3| = (x + 3) when x >= -3
|x + 3| = -(x + 3) when x < -3

Now, x can be either greater than 2, between -3 and 2 or less than -3.
So you solve for these 3 cases:
Case 1: x >= 2
(x - 2) = (x + 3)
-2 = 3
No solution

Case 2: -3 <= x < 2
-(x - 2) = (x + 3)
x = -1/2 which lies between -3 and 2
So this is a solution to the equation

Case 3: x <= -3
-(x - 2) = -(x + 3)
2 = -3
No solution

Similarly you can solve for as many terms as you want.
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rahul321
I've understood everything about Absolute Values in these posts except for Example #1 in walker's first post. I was hoping someone could help me better understand the logic behind the solution.

First, I think what i'm struggling with most is the fact that we have absolute values on both the left and right hand side of the equation. How do you deal with those?

Second, I noticed that the three key points mentioned here are -8, -3, 4. I get that these three values for \(x\) equate the value inside each modulus to \(0\). But why do we need the value of each modulus to be \(0\)?

Finally, I don't understand how we derived the 4 conditions. With the first one, for example, if \(x<-8\), let's say \(x=-10\), then \(|8+(-10)|=2\) not \(0\). I'm completely lost here.

I am assuming that you have understood that mod is nothing but distance on the number line. If so, then you can easily solve the question without equations.
I re arrange the eg to get |x + 3| = |x + 8| + |x - 4|
(Inside the mod, 4-x is same as x-4 since mod will always be non-negative)
What I get from this question is: "I want the point on the number line whose distance from -3 is equal to the sum of its distances from -8 and from 4."
i.e. the green distance is equal to red distance + blue distance.
Attachment:
Ques5.jpg
Ques5.jpg [ 3.7 KiB | Viewed 184173 times ]

Is there any such point possible? If x is between -8 and 4, you see above that it is not possible. If x < -8 or x > 4, see the diagrams below and it will be obvious that there is no such point. In the first case, the blue distance itself is greater than the green distance and in the second case, the red distance itself is greater than the green distance. Since there is no such point on the number line, no such value of x exists.
Attachment:
Ques6.jpg
Ques6.jpg [ 7.64 KiB | Viewed 184169 times ]
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nikhil007

VeritasPrepKarishma
Of course it can be done using algebra as well. It doesn't matter how many mods there are. you always deal with them in the same way.
|x|= x when x is >= 0,
|x|= -x when x < 0

|x - 2|= (x - 2) when x - 2 >= 0 (or x >= 2),
|x - 2|= -(x - 2) when (x-2) < 0 (or x < 2)

Then you solve the equations using both conditions given above. That is the importance of the points.
So if you have:
|x - 2|= |x + 3|

You say, |x - 2|= (x - 2) when x >= 2.
|x - 2|= -(x - 2) when x < 2
|x + 3| = (x + 3) when x >= -3
|x + 3| = -(x + 3) when x < -3

Ok, Now after literally banging my head for 3 hrs and reading you blog articles back and forth, I get it that to make an EQ in (X-K) format we manipulate it by taking -tive sign out
but I guess in this example its this concept that we need to understand

|x|= x when x is >= 0,
|x|= -x when x < 0

ok, so based on this understanding I will take a fresh shot, please let me know what's wrong

Quote:
a) \(x < -8\). \(-(x+3) - (4-x) = -(8+x)\) --> \(x = -1\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-1 is not less than -8)

In this test case, since we will always have |x+3| negative we put a -tive sign outside because modulus will turn it into non negative, so to do that we take multiply it by (-1), is this understanding correct?
and since we are ok with -(4-x), because we will again get |4-x| positive with a negative x, the -tive sign outside the bracket will make sure its always -tive when out of the Modulus. However to be frank, a little confusion here is, as you mentioned in the blog, why don't we try to convert it into (x-k) format?
in RHS we have -(8-x) because again we want |8-x| to turn out a negative number so we put -(8-x) to make it always negative, let me know if I got it correctly.


Quote:
b) \(-8 \leq x < -3\). \(-(x+3) - (4-x) = (8+x)\) --> \(x = -15\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-15 is not within (-8,-3) interval.)

again, I get it why LHS is that way, however I still don't get it why we don't have -(8-X) as we need to make sure that the result of this bracket is -tive so |8-x| = -(8-x)


Quote:
c) \(-3 \leq x < 4\). \((x+3) - (4-x) = (8+x)\) --> \(x = 9\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-15 is not within (-3,4) interval.)

I still dont get it, if we test x against both -tive and positive scenario, why is that we just have 1 equation? in my view we should split it in 2 eq. to test against both negative and positive value.

Quote:
d) \(x \geq 4\). \((x+3) + (4-x) = (8+x)\) --> \(x = -1\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-1 is not more than 4)

(x+3) since we don't have a negative value of X this bracket will always be positive, we don't need a -tive sign outside, is this the reason?
(4-x) again since a >4 will always make it positive we don't need a -tive sign outside the bracket, is this the reason?
(8+x) again same reason as above for this?


I also had one doubt in your blog question.

Complication No 3: on this post https://www.gmatclub.com/forum/veritas-prep-resource-links-no-longer-available-399979.html#/2012/0 ... ns-part-i/

(-2x^3 + 17x^2 – 30x) > 0

This is how I understand it,

\(x(-2x^2 + 17x - 30) > 0\) (just took out x common) ok
x(2x – 5)(6 – x) > 0(factoring the quadratic) ok
2x(x – 5/2)(-1)(x – 6) > 0 (take 2 common) ---------> I think in this you took out -1 common to make the second bracket = (x-k) format?

First of all, if you do get a question with multiple mods and if you want to be prepared for it, using algebra will be far more time consuming than the approaches discussed in my blog. But nevertheless, you should understand it properly.

When you have an equation with x in it, you solve by taking x to one side and everything else to the other. What happens when you have mods in it?
Say |x| = 4, you still haven't got the value of x. You have the value of |x| only. So you need to remove the mod. Now there are rules to remove the mod.

|x|= x (mod removed) when x is >= 0,
|x|= -x (mod removed) when x < 0

So |x| = 4 to remove the mod, I need to know whether x is positive or negative.
If x >= 0, |x| = x so |x| = 4 = x
We get that x is 4

If x < 0, |x| = -x so |x| = 4 = -x
hence x = -4

So if we are looking for a positive value, then it is 4 and if we are looking for a negative value, it is -4.

Similarly, when you have |x+4| + |x - 3| = 10 (just an example), you need to remove the mods to solve for x. But to remove mods (which are around the entire factors x-4 and x-3 and not just around x), you need to know whether (x+ 4) and (x - 3) (the thing inside the mod) are positive/negative.

So you split it into ranges:

x > 3
Put any value greater than 3 in (x+4), (x+4) will remain positive. Put any value greater than 3 in (x - 3), (x - 3) will remain positive.

So when x > 3, we can remove the mods without any modification:
(x + 4) + (x-3) = 10
x = 9/2
Since 9/2 is greater than 3, this value of x is acceptable.

-4 < x< 3
For these values of x, (x+4) will always be positive but (x-3) will be negative. So |x - 3| = -(x-3)
(x + 4) - (x-3) = 10
You don't have any such value for x

x < -4
For these values of x, (x+4) and (x-3) will be negative. So |x - 3| = -(x-3) and |x+4| = -(x+4)
-(x + 4) - (x-3) = 10
x = -11/2
Since -11/2 is less than -4, this value of x is also acceptable.

As for question with factors that are multiplied (discussed in the 3 links given above),
We know how to deal with (x-a)(x-b)(x-c) > 0 type of questions so we try to bring it that form.

2(x–0)(x–5/2)(x–6) < 0 (multiply both sides by -1)-------> how did you arrive at 2(x-0)? i think it should be just \(2x(x-\frac{5}{2})(x-6) <0\)

(x-0) is nothing but x. I put as (x-0) to make it consistent to the (x-a)(x-b).... form to help you remember that you have to take 0 as a transition point too.
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yangsta8
Hi Walker, Thanks for posting this.

You've written a property that:
|X + Y| >= |X| + |Y|
Is the same true for negative?
|X - Y| <= |X| - |Y|

|X + Y| <= |X| + |Y|

|X - Y| >=|X| - |Y|
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gettinit
Great thanks for the explanation on that Karishma - very very very helpful.

Can you also help me with how we converted lx+3l>3 into (-inf,-6) and (0,+inf)?

Is this because x+3>=0 (non-negative) and negative x+3<0 (negative). So we get to x+3=3 so x=0 which fits condition 1 above and this will go to infinity

and then

-(x+3)=3 so you get -x=6 or x=-6 which fits condition two above so x<-6 so therefore it goes to negative infinity?

I think I am close. appreciate the help.

Yes, lx+3l>3 gives us two cases

Case 1: x + 3 >= 0 or x > = -3
Then (x + 3) > 3 or we can say x > 0

Case 2: x + 3 < 0 or x < -3
Then -(x + 3) > 3 or we can say x < -6

So either x > 0 which translates to (0, inf) or x < -6 which translates to (-inf, -6)

OR consider that lx+3l>3 means distance of x from -3 is more than 3.
If you go to 3 steps to right from -3, you reach 0. Anything after than is ok.
If you go 3 steps to left from -3, you reach -6. Anything to its left is ok.
Attachment:
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breakit
walker
when x<-8, (4-x) is always positive and we don't need to modify the sign when we open it.



sorry Walker, I still don't get it :(

when we consider x<-8 then we made all the x to be negative so multiplied each with negative terms.. is that (4-x) is already having negative for x so we didn't have to multiply with negative here.

Sorry i am really novice for this kind of problem.. please also let me know if there is any post related with this :)

You might want to check out this video in which I have discussed these concepts in detail:

https://youtu.be/PWsUOe77__E
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a) \(x < -8\). \(-(x+3) - (4-x) = -(8+x)\) --> \(x = -1\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-1 is not less than -8)

if x < -8, (x + 3) is always negative. So, modulus is non-negative and we need to change a sign: |x+3| = - (x+3) for x<-8
For example, if x = -10,
|-10+3| = |-7| = 7
-(-10+3) = -(-7) = 7

In other words, |x| = x if x is positive and |x|=-x if x is negative.
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someonear
walker


Let’s consider following examples,

Example #1
Q.: \(|x+3| - |4-x| = |8+x|\). How many solutions does the equation have?
Solution: There are 3 key points here: -8, -3, 4. So we have 4 conditions:

a) \(x < -8\). \(-(x+3) - (4-x) = -(8+x)\) --> \(x = -1\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-1 is not less than -8)

b) \(-8 \leq x < -3\). \(-(x+3) - (4-x) = (8+x)\) --> \(x = -15\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-15 is not within (-8,-3) interval.)

c) \(-3 \leq x < 4\). \((x+3) - (4-x) = (8+x)\) --> \(x = 9\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-15 is not within (-3,4) interval.)

d) \(x \geq 4\). \((x+3) + (4-x) = (8+x)\) --> \(x = -1\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-1 is not more than 4)

This is a great topic.However i have a little confusion on the range of numbers that are defined in the 4 scenarios.
As we are looking at x+3 >=0 we get x>=-3
Similarly when x+3 <0 we have x<-3

Based on these the ranges I have for the 4 cases
1. x<-8
2. -8<= x <-3
3. -3<= x <= 4
4. x> 4
the last two cases are whats different .
This obviously stems from solving 4-x >= 0 and 4-x<0 Could someone explain what I am doing wrong here? thanks in advance

You don't need to solve anything to get these four ranges.
You see that the points where the signs will vary are -8, 4 and -3.
To cover all the numbers on the number line, the ranges are:
x is less than -8, then between -8 and -3, then between -3 and 4 and then greater than 4. It doesn't matter where you put the '='. In each range the sign of the terms will be different. After assigning the proper signs, you will get a value for x and you have to check if the value lies in the range you were considering. If it does, it is a solution, else it is not.
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Let’s consider following examples,

Example #1 I am not understanding this example and really struggling with modulus? Can someone please elaborate and explain in further detail? From this post I can't see how I would use this on every modulus problem?
Q.: \(|x+3| - |4-x| = |8+x|\). How many solutions does the equation have?
Solution: There are 3 key points here: -8, -3, 4. So we have 4 conditions:

a) \(x < -8\). \(-(x+3) - (4-x) how did we get -(x+3) here?= -(8+x)\) --> \(x = -1\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-1 is not less than -8)

b) \(-8 \leq x < -3\). \(-(x+3) - (4-x) = (8+x)\) --> \(x = -15\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-15 is not within (-8,-3) interval.)

c) \(-3 \leq x < 4\). \((x+3) - (4-x) = (8+x)\) --> \(x = 9\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-15 is not within (-3,4) interval.)

d) \(x \geq 4\). \((x+3) + (4-x) = (8+x)\) --> \(x = -1\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-1 is not more than 4)

I am totally lost with this post and also with other modulus problems I looked up in Gmat club thank you very much for your help in advance!!!!!
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1) yes, you can use the same approach for |x+3|-5=|8+x|

2) let say we have condition x < -8. Then |x + 8| = - (x+8). Why do we have "-" here? Because (x+8) is always negative at x<-8 and we need to add "-" to get a positive value. Actually, it's the definition of the absolute value:

|x| = x for x >=0
|x| = -x for x<0
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Hi Walker, Thanks for posting this.

You've written a property that:
|X + Y| >= |X| + |Y|
Is the same true for negative?
|X - Y| <= |X| - |Y|
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tinki
i have a question related to Example 1:

|x+3| - |4-x| = |8+x|

-3 \leq x < 4
x \geq 4.
if we take /4-x/ than we have 4-x >=0 so x >=4
and 4-x<0 4<=0
i see in the solution that you switched x-4 and wrote x-4>= 0 and x-4 <o
i understand that it is perfectly ok to do so. my question: when do we have to know when to switch ? because if not switched than we shall have x >=4 if switched x<=4
i hope i made myself clear
thanks

You can switch inside the mod when you like! When you feel switching makes it easier for you to handle.
We are used to getting terms in the form |x-4|, not |4-x|... so you switch.. it doesn't matter at all... let me show with a simpler example:

Question: |4-x| > 5

Case 1: When 4 - x >= 0 i.e. when x <= 4
4 - x > 5
or x < -1
So solution is x < -1

Case 2: When 4 - x <= 0 i.e. when x >= 4
-(4-x) > 5
x > 9
So solution is x > 9

Answer: x is either less than -1 or greater than 9.

Now switch:
Question: |x-4| > 5

Case 1: When x - 4 >= 0 i.e. when x >= 4
x - 4 > 5
or x > 9
Solution is x > 9

Case 2: When x - 4 <= 0 i.e. when x <= 4
-(x - 4) > 5
x < -1
So solution is x < -1

Answer: x is either less than -1 or greater than 9.

The same two cases in both the questions.. same answer in both...
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Here is a GMAT DS question from the topic Inequalities. Tests concepts of modulus.

Question
Is |a| > |b|?
1. 1/(a - b) > 1/(b - a)
2. a + b < 0

Correct Answer : Choice C. Both statements together are sufficient.

Explanatory Answer

We need to determine whether |a| is greater than |b|.
The answer to this question will be a conclusive 'yes' if |a| > |b|.
The answer will be a conclusive 'n' if |a| <= |b|

Let us evaluate statement 1
1/(a - b) > 1/(b - a)
We can rewrite the same inequality as 1/(a - b) > -1(a - b).
If a number is greater than the negative of the number, the number has to be a positive number.

So, we can conclude that a - b > 0 or a > b.

If a > b, |a| may or may not be greater than |b|.
For e.g, a = 4, b = 2. Then |a| > |b|. For positive a and b, when a > b, |a| > |b|.

Let us look at a counter example. a = 2 and b = -10. a > b. But |a| < |b|.
Hence, we cannot conclude from statement 1 whether |a| > |b|.

Statement 1 is NOT sufficient.

Let us evaluate statement 2
a + b < 0

Either both a and b are negative or one of a or b is negative.
If only one of the two numbers is negative, then the magnitude of the negative number is greater than the magnitude of the negative number is greater than the magnitude of the positive number.

For e.g., a = -3 and b = -4. a + b < 0, |a| < |b|
Here is a counter example: a = -4 and b = -3. a + b < 0 and |a| > |b|.

So, statement 2 is NOT sufficient.

Let us combine the two statements.
We know a > b from statement 1 and a + b < 0 from statement 2.

If both a and b are negative, and we know that a > b, then |a| < |b|. Note in negative numbers, lesser the magnitude, greater the number.

If one of 'a' or 'b' is negative, as a > b, a has to be positive and b has to be negative.
The sum of a + b < 0. Therefore, the magnitude of a has to be lesser than the magnitude of b.
So, we can conclude that |a| < |b|.

Hence, by combining the two statements we can conclude that |a| is not greater than |b|.

So, the two statements taken together are sufficient to answer the question.
Choice C is the correct answer

Here is an alternative explanation for the same.
From statement 1 we know a - b > 0. From statement 2 we know a + b < 0.
So, (a - b)(a + b) < 0
Or a^2 - b^2 < 0 or a^2 < b^2

If a^2 < b^2, we can conclude that |a| < |b|.
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KarishmaB
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0Lucky0
Q.: |x+3|−|4−x|=|8+x|. How many solutions does the equation have?

KarishmaB, I have read all 6 pages on here looking for your explanations but I can't seem to find a post where you solve this question using your patented number line technique. :P I also read all 3 pages of explanations on the original question post, even there you don't actually answer this question anywhere using that technique.
You did answer a loooooot of questions on this and explained stuff using both the number line and without the number line but I couldn't find a post where you by yourself answer this question using the method you would prefer. :P
This Modulus topic is an extremely complicated topic and I really don't wanna read anyone else's explanations but yours as IMO, you are a master at this; also because reading too much of this is just frying my brain. :P So if possible, please answer this question using your patented number line method in one post. :) Thank you sooo much.. :) You truly are a genius. :)


I am guessing that the link shared by Bunuel would have already helped you but since you took the time to write those kind words :) here is the straight and simple method of doing the question my way:


|x+3|−|4−x|=|8+x|
Re-write as:
|x+3| = |x+8| + |x - 4|
(because sum of distances is easier to handle than difference of distances)


Draw the transition points on the number line:

------------------- (-8) ----------- (-3) --------------------------- (4) -------------


Now I will think, where on this number line will the distance from -3 be equal to sum of distances from -8 and 4.
At the part to the left of -8? No. 4 is farther off than -3.
At the part between -8 and -3? No. 4 is farther off than -3.
At the part between -3 and 4? No. -8 is farther off than -3.
At the part to the right of 4? No. -8 is farther off than -3.

Hence there is no region and no point where the distance from -3 is equal to sum of distances from -8 and 4.

Answer (A)

If you are unsure of how absolute values are taken as distances, I have a YouTube video on it here: https://youtu.be/oqVfKQBcnrs
The channel is work in progress so I have been hesitant to share it as of now, but the video explains the concept the way I wish to, so go ahead!
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worldogvictor
Hi,
In the original post, in the section GMAC books, there are some prob numbers stated. Can you please explain how they relate to the post? How one will use those numbers is what I am asking.

The given problem numbers are official questions on the concept of Modulus.
You need to have those books to be able to access the given questions. The numbers give you the question numbers e.g. in OG12 in sample problem solving questions, question no 22 (on page 155) tests you on Mods.
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VeritasPrepKarishma
someonear
walker


Let’s consider following examples,

Example #1
Q.: \(|x+3| - |4-x| = |8+x|\). How many solutions does the equation have?
Solution: There are 3 key points here: -8, -3, 4. So we have 4 conditions:

a) \(x < -8\). \(-(x+3) - (4-x) = -(8+x)\) --> \(x = -1\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-1 is not less than -8)

b) \(-8 \leq x < -3\). \(-(x+3) - (4-x) = (8+x)\) --> \(x = -15\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-15 is not within (-8,-3) interval.)

c) \(-3 \leq x < 4\). \((x+3) - (4-x) = (8+x)\) --> \(x = 9\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-15 is not within (-3,4) interval.)

d) \(x \geq 4\). \((x+3) + (4-x) = (8+x)\) --> \(x = -1\). We reject the solution because our condition is not satisfied (-1 is not more than 4)

This is a great topic.However i have a little confusion on the range of numbers that are defined in the 4 scenarios.
As we are looking at x+3 >=0 we get x>=-3
Similarly when x+3 <0 we have x<-3

Based on these the ranges I have for the 4 cases
1. x<-8
2. -8<= x <-3
3. -3<= x <= 4
4. x> 4
the last two cases are whats different .
This obviously stems from solving 4-x >= 0 and 4-x<0 Could someone explain what I am doing wrong here? thanks in advance

You don't need to solve anything to get these four ranges.
You see that the points where the signs will vary are -8, 4 and -3.
To cover all the numbers on the number line, the ranges are:
x is less than -8, then between -8 and -3, then between -3 and 4 and then greater than 4. It doesn't matter where you put the '='. In each range the sign of the terms will be different. After assigning the proper signs, you will get a value for x and you have to check if the value lies in the range you were considering. If it does, it is a solution, else it is not.

I am worried about values of x that are on the border of the ranges
Say hypothetically for a particular set of equations we end with the identical 4 cases we have here.
Now if say I have x=4 then the way I had come up with the ranges I will get a solution between -3 and 4 as x=4 exists in -3<= x <= 4. But if however I consider what was done in the OP then x=4 exists in the range x>=4
Granted either way I have a solution but will it be a biggie if I fail to show exactly in which range the solution, if it does,exists
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