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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
Shuvabrata88,

I agree with the approach which you have taken but I think the answer should be E as statement 2 simply states that diff b/w D and C is prime so it could be either D-C-4 or C+4-D; in this case (5*6) combination also works out to be prime.

Initial ques stem mentions that B>A i.e D>C but if we add 4 to C then this statement may not hold true.

I may be over complicating the question, lets wait for OE
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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
EgmatQuantExpert

Had a happy time solving, please provide the OA asap :)
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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
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Oh yes Harsh, my bad :-); thanks for the detailed solution
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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
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e-gmat representative

i am sorry but i disagree with your evaluation of statement two. following are my points of dispute:
It is given that beth ( & hence duncan, since they are twins) is older than abe ( & correspondingly carl). That is a fact and cannot be challenged, right ? Also, fact 2: clearly states difference between Duncan's age and Carl's age..makes sense because we would want to end up with negetive number which would occur if the reverse ( C - D) were to happen..so far so good. now consider the possible age value sets (keeping in mind the logical validity of the statement )

" Since Carl’s present age is x, had he been born four years earlier, his present age would be (x +4).
The Statement tells us that y – (x +4) is a prime number. " this is your explanation..totally with you till this point. HOWEVER,

y – (x +4) when applied to the set (5,6) yields -3 (which is not positive first of all forget being prime) and not 3 as you said..absolutely illogical and hence not a valid set i feel. the other sets (resultant-prime or otherwise) at least yield a positive number since x and x+4 are both lesser than y.
And if we were to take this into account, the only valid set is (3,10) from stmnt 2..sufficient ans: B

WOULD REQUEST your thoughts on this and would kindly appreciate if A MATH EXPERT would care to enlighten or clarify.

regards
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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
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smashbiker84,

I agree that D>C is given in the question, but how would you know D>C+4?? we can have C+4>D right? Hence we must need to consider D-C-4 and C+4-D; in this case 5,6 gives you the prime output

Hope it helps

Cheers
AT
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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
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This is my question.
Well we can come up with the following pairs (A,B) or (D, C) = (15, 2), (6, 5), (10, 3), or (30, 1).
From statement 2 we get that had Carl been born four years earlier, the difference would have been a prime number. So from the given information we know that Carl's age is either 2,5,3,1. So if he was born 4 years earlier then his age could have been (-2, 1, -1, -3). Well obviously only 1 is possible, so the difference between 6 and 1 be a prime number.

But clearly that is not the way to approach this problem, nor is this approach taken by anyone. I just want to know what am I missing here.

Thanks!
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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
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Hi smashbiker84 We are not challenging any facts here. Statement-II presents a 'What If' scenario which gives another relation between the ages of the siblings. The question statement talks about the present situation, while statement-II talks about an alternate situation. For example, assume a situation where you are 3 years elder to your sister. If your sister were to be born 4 years earlier, she would become a year elder to you. This is not contradicting the present situation, but building upon the present situation.

To answer your 2nd question, please note that difference between two things is positive in real world scenarios. For example, difference between a son's age and his father's age is 30 years and the difference between the father’s and his son’s age is also 30 years. We do not say that the difference between son’s age and father’s age is -30 years. The "-" is only an indication that you have subtracted the larger item from the smaller item. Hence, when we are talking about difference between two things, it would mean the absolute difference or the magnitude of the difference.
.

Hi nphatak, if a person is born earlier, his age would increase, so instead of subtracting 4 from the present age, you would need to add 4 in the present age.
For ex: If a person is born in 2004, his present age would be 11, but if he is born four years earlier i.e. in 2000, his present age would be (11 + 4) = 15.
So, in this case Carl's age would be (6,9,7,5) instead of (-2, 1, -1, -3).

Hope its clear!

Regards
Harsh


Originally posted by EgmatQuantExpert on 13 Apr 2015, 03:47.
Last edited by EgmatQuantExpert on 07 Aug 2018, 03:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
Option C

In terms of age, A = C & B = D.
Also, A*B*C*D = 900 =A^2*B^2 = C^2*D^2

A*B = C*D = 30

Which means, (A,B) or (B,A) could possibly be (1,30) ; (2,15) ; (3,10) ; (5,6).

I: B - A = Prime number. Let us look at the possible options:
B - A = |30 -1| = 29 or |15 - 2| = 13 or |10 - 3| = 7 or |6 - 5| = 1.

Except for the last combination (6,5), rest satisfy the condition of being Prime number, so there is NO unique solution. Hence, I is Insufficient.

II: Carl's age today, had he born four years ago, would be C +4.
So, D - (C + 4) = B - (A+4) = Prime number. Now again looking at the possible combinations, we can see:

30 - (1+4) = 25 Not a Prime
15 - (2+4) = 9 Not a Prime
10 - (3+4) = 3 Prime

Again, no Unique solution. Insufficient.

Now, if we combine both I + II:
I:B-A = Prime Number
Also, II:B - (A+4) = Prime Number
From possible solutions, only one combination B = 10 & A = 3 satisfy both the conditions.
As, B-A = 10 -3 = 7 Prime
B - (A+4) = 10 - (3+4) = 3 Prime
Hence, Sufficient.
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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
EgmatQuantExpert wrote:
Detailed Solution

Step-I: Given Info

We are told about four siblings Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan such that Abe and Carl are twins and Beth and Duncan are also twins. We are also given that the product of the present ages of the four siblings is 900. Further we are told that Beth is older than Abe and we are asked to find the age of Duncan

Step-II: Interpreting the Question Statement

Since Abe and Carl are twins, their ages would be same, let’s assume it to be \(x\). Similarly, since Beth and Duncan are twins, their ages would be same, let’s assume it to be \(y\).

We are told that Beth is older than Abe, i.e. \(y > x\) and the product of the ages of the siblings is 900, so we can write \(x^ 2 * y^2 = 900\).

We can observe here that 900 is written as product of two squares, since 900 can be prime factorized as \(900 = 2^2 * 3^2 * 5^2\), the possible set of values of (\(x, y\)) can be:

• (1, 30) or
• (2, 15) or
• (3, 10) or
• (5,6)

Let’s proceed to the solutions to see if we can get a unique value of \(x\) with this understanding.

Step-III: Statement I

Statement tells us that \(y\) \(–\) \(x\) is a prime number. Let’s evaluate our possible cases to see if we can find a unique value for \(x\):

• (1, 30) –>= 29-> Prime
• (2, 15) –>= 13 -> Prime
• (3, 10) – > = 7 -> Prime
• (5,6) – > = 1 -> Not Prime

We observe here that, there are three possible values for \(x\), hence statement-I is not sufficient to arrive at the answer.

Step-IV: Statement II

Statement-II tells us that had Carl been born four years earlier, the difference between Duncan’s age and Carl’s age would have been a prime number. Since Carl’s present age is \(x\), had he been born four years earlier, his present age would be (\(x +4\)).
The Statement tells us that \(y\) \(–\) \((x +4)\) is a prime number. Let’s evaluate our possible cases to see if we can find a unique value for \(x\).

• (1, 30) –>= 25-> Not Prime
• (2, 15) –>= 9 -> Not Prime
• (3, 10) – > = 3 -> Prime
• (5,6) – > = 3 -> Prime

We observe here that there are two possible values for \(x\), hence statement-II is not sufficient to arrive at the answer.

Step-V: Combining Statements I & II

Statement-I gives us the possible values of (\(x, y\)) as (1, 30), (2, 15) and (3, 10). Statement-II gives us the possible values of (\(x, y\)) as (3, 10) and (5,6).

Combining statement-I & II give us only possible option for values of (\(x, y\)) which is (3, 10).
Thus combination of St-I & II is sufficient to answer the question. Hence, the correct answer is Option C

Key Takeaways

1. Prime factorize a number to understand the ways in which a number can be represented

Regards
Harsh



This interpretation of between of in the problem seems to go against what is used on GMAT--"difference between x and y" is interpreted as "x-y"--this is also shown in GMAT club math book; am I missing something here because the difference has a direction associated with it (+/-) so (5 and 6) would actually result in (6-(5+4)) [representing Duncan - Carl Born Four Years Ealier] is actually negative and thus cannot be a prime so statement II alone should be sufficient and the right answer should be B...
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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
i too am getting statement B as sufficient.
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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
EgmatQuantExpert wrote:
Detailed Solution

Step-I: Given Info

We are told about four siblings Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan such that Abe and Carl are twins and Beth and Duncan are also twins. We are also given that the product of the present ages of the four siblings is 900. Further we are told that Beth is older than Abe and we are asked to find the age of Duncan

Step-II: Interpreting the Question Statement

Since Abe and Carl are twins, their ages would be same, let’s assume it to be \(x\). Similarly, since Beth and Duncan are twins, their ages would be same, let’s assume it to be \(y\).

We are told that Beth is older than Abe, i.e. \(y > x\) and the product of the ages of the siblings is 900, so we can write \(x^ 2 * y^2 = 900\).

We can observe here that 900 is written as product of two squares, since 900 can be prime factorized as \(900 = 2^2 * 3^2 * 5^2\), the possible set of values of (\(x, y\)) can be:

• (1, 30) or
• (2, 15) or
• (3, 10) or
• (5,6)

Let’s proceed to the solutions to see if we can get a unique value of \(x\) with this understanding.

Step-III: Statement I

Statement tells us that \(y\) \(–\) \(x\) is a prime number. Let’s evaluate our possible cases to see if we can find a unique value for \(x\):

• (1, 30) –>= 29-> Prime
• (2, 15) –>= 13 -> Prime
• (3, 10) – > = 7 -> Prime
• (5,6) – > = 1 -> Not Prime

We observe here that, there are three possible values for \(x\), hence statement-I is not sufficient to arrive at the answer.

Step-IV: Statement II

Statement-II tells us that had Carl been born four years earlier, the difference between Duncan’s age and Carl’s age would have been a prime number. Since Carl’s present age is \(x\), had he been born four years earlier, his present age would be (\(x +4\)).
The Statement tells us that \(y\) \(–\) \((x +4)\) is a prime number. Let’s evaluate our possible cases to see if we can find a unique value for \(x\).

• (1, 30) –>= 25-> Not Prime
• (2, 15) –>= 9 -> Not Prime
• (3, 10) – > = 3 -> Prime
• (5,6) – > = 3 -> Prime

We observe here that there are two possible values for \(x\), hence statement-II is not sufficient to arrive at the answer.

Step-V: Combining Statements I & II

Statement-I gives us the possible values of (\(x, y\)) as (1, 30), (2, 15) and (3, 10). Statement-II gives us the possible values of (\(x, y\)) as (3, 10) and (5,6).

Combining statement-I & II give us only possible option for values of (\(x, y\)) which is (3, 10).
Thus combination of St-I & II is sufficient to answer the question. Hence, the correct answer is Option C

Key Takeaways

1. Prime factorize a number to understand the ways in which a number can be represented

atom - you were right in describing why Statement-II alone is not sufficient but you did not consider the combinations of statement- I & II.

Regards
Harsh



Hi I have a question for you, How come 6-(5+4) = 3? Is it not suppose to be -3? OR are we supposed to take the absolute value? If not then I suppose the only valid case should be 10-(3+4) =3, which makes statement II alone sufficient. Could you please clarify this point. Thanks in advance?
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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
Answer,

Let Abe and Carl age be x
Beth and Duncan be y

hence, x2 * y2 = 900
x*y = 30

option 1:
Given Beth’s age and Abe’s age is a prime number say a
hence,
x*(x*a)=30
x2+ax-30=0

factors of 30 = 2x3x5
a can be 10-3 = 7 which is prime

in this case x =3

age of Abe and Carl = 3 years

Age of Beth and Duncan = 10 years
Hence is sufficient

Simmilarly case II
If Carl had been born four years earlier, the difference between Duncan’s age and Carl’s age would have been a prime number.

Carl age = x +4

x+4 - y = prime no.say b

x (x + 4 -b) = 30

x2 + (4-b)x -30 = 0
factors of 30 = 2x3x5

(4-b) = can be 7, 13, 1,

(4-b) = 1
b = 5
x = 6

age of Abe and Carl = 6 years

Age of Beth and Duncan = 5 years
Hence is sufficient
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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
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EgmatQuantExpert wrote:
Detailed Solution

Step-I: Given Info

We are told about four siblings Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan such that Abe and Carl are twins and Beth and Duncan are also twins. We are also given that the product of the present ages of the four siblings is 900. Further we are told that Beth is older than Abe and we are asked to find the age of Duncan

Step-II: Interpreting the Question Statement

Since Abe and Carl are twins, their ages would be same, let’s assume it to be \(x\). Similarly, since Beth and Duncan are twins, their ages would be same, let’s assume it to be \(y\).

We are told that Beth is older than Abe, i.e. \(y > x\) and the product of the ages of the siblings is 900, so we can write \(x^ 2 * y^2 = 900\).

We can observe here that 900 is written as product of two squares, since 900 can be prime factorized as \(900 = 2^2 * 3^2 * 5^2\), the possible set of values of (\(x, y\)) can be:

• (1, 30) or
• (2, 15) or
• (3, 10) or
• (5,6)

Let’s proceed to the solutions to see if we can get a unique value of \(x\) with this understanding.

Step-III: Statement I

Statement tells us that \(y\) \(–\) \(x\) is a prime number. Let’s evaluate our possible cases to see if we can find a unique value for \(x\):

• (1, 30) –>= 29-> Prime
• (2, 15) –>= 13 -> Prime
• (3, 10) – > = 7 -> Prime
• (5,6) – > = 1 -> Not Prime

We observe here that, there are three possible values for \(x\), hence statement-I is not sufficient to arrive at the answer.

Step-IV: Statement II

Statement-II tells us that had Carl been born four years earlier, the difference between Duncan’s age and Carl’s age would have been a prime number. Since Carl’s present age is \(x\), had he been born four years earlier, his present age would be (\(x +4\)).
The Statement tells us that \(y\) \(–\) \((x +4)\) is a prime number. Let’s evaluate our possible cases to see if we can find a unique value for \(x\).

• (1, 30) –>= 25-> Not Prime
• (2, 15) –>= 9 -> Not Prime
• (3, 10) – > = 3 -> Prime
• (5,6) – > = 3 -> Prime

We observe here that there are two possible values for \(x\), hence statement-II is not sufficient to arrive at the answer.

Step-V: Combining Statements I & II

Statement-I gives us the possible values of (\(x, y\)) as (1, 30), (2, 15) and (3, 10). Statement-II gives us the possible values of (\(x, y\)) as (3, 10) and (5,6).

Combining statement-I & II give us only possible option for values of (\(x, y\)) which is (3, 10).
Thus combination of St-I & II is sufficient to answer the question. Hence, the correct answer is Option C

Key Takeaways

1. Prime factorize a number to understand the ways in which a number can be represented

atom - you were right in describing why Statement-II alone is not sufficient but you did not consider the combinations of statement- I & II.

Regards
Harsh





"Here for last set (5,6)
i think we can assume any of the above as abe's age and carl's age

If abe age is 5 , carls = 6 -4 =2 i.e 5-2 = 3 prime
And if carl age is 6 and abe age is 5-4 = 1 i,e 6-1 = 5 prime
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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
EgmatQuantExpert wrote:
Detailed Solution

Step-I: Given Info

We are told about four siblings Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan such that Abe and Carl are twins and Beth and Duncan are also twins. We are also given that the product of the present ages of the four siblings is 900. Further we are told that Beth is older than Abe and we are asked to find the age of Duncan

Step-II: Interpreting the Question Statement

Since Abe and Carl are twins, their ages would be same, let’s assume it to be \(x\). Similarly, since Beth and Duncan are twins, their ages would be same, let’s assume it to be \(y\).

We are told that Beth is older than Abe, i.e. \(y > x\) and the product of the ages of the siblings is 900, so we can write \(x^ 2 * y^2 = 900\).

We can observe here that 900 is written as product of two squares, since 900 can be prime factorized as \(900 = 2^2 * 3^2 * 5^2\), the possible set of values of (\(x, y\)) can be:

• (1, 30) or
• (2, 15) or
• (3, 10) or
• (5,6)

Let’s proceed to the solutions to see if we can get a unique value of \(x\) with this understanding.

Step-III: Statement I

Statement tells us that \(y\) \(–\) \(x\) is a prime number. Let’s evaluate our possible cases to see if we can find a unique value for \(x\):

• (1, 30) –>= 29-> Prime
• (2, 15) –>= 13 -> Prime
• (3, 10) – > = 7 -> Prime
• (5,6) – > = 1 -> Not Prime

We observe here that, there are three possible values for \(x\), hence statement-I is not sufficient to arrive at the answer.

Step-IV: Statement II

Statement-II tells us that had Carl been born four years earlier, the difference between Duncan’s age and Carl’s age would have been a prime number. Since Carl’s present age is \(x\), had he been born four years earlier, his present age would be (\(x +4\)).
The Statement tells us that \(y\) \(–\) \((x +4)\) is a prime number. Let’s evaluate our possible cases to see if we can find a unique value for \(x\).

• (1, 30) –>= 25-> Not Prime
• (2, 15) –>= 9 -> Not Prime
• (3, 10) – > = 3 -> Prime
• (5,6) – > = 3 -> Prime

We observe here that there are two possible values for \(x\), hence statement-II is not sufficient to arrive at the answer.

Step-V: Combining Statements I & II

Statement-I gives us the possible values of (\(x, y\)) as (1, 30), (2, 15) and (3, 10). Statement-II gives us the possible values of (\(x, y\)) as (3, 10) and (5,6).

Combining statement-I & II give us only possible option for values of (\(x, y\)) which is (3, 10).
Thus combination of St-I & II is sufficient to answer the question. Hence, the correct answer is Option C

Key Takeaways

1. Prime factorize a number to understand the ways in which a number can be represented

atom - you were right in describing why Statement-II alone is not sufficient but you did not consider the combinations of statement- I & II.

Regards
Harsh



Hi egmat
I think statement 2 is sufficient to answer the Question as in the given pairs of the numbers, Carl's age has to be the lesser of the pairs as it is given that age of B > that of A
which means D > C

So amongst the given pairs
• (1, 30) –> -3 -> C's age can't be -ve if he were born 4 yrs earlier
• (2, 15) –>= -2 -> C's age can't be -ve if he were born 4 yrs earlier
• (3, 10) – > = -1 -> C's age can't be -ve if he were born 4 yrs earlier
• (5,6) – > = 1 -> C's age can be 1 which means 6-1 = 5 (prime)

So Statement 2 is sufficient.
Please correct me if I am mistaken
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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
shuvabrata88 wrote:
Let the ages be A,B,C & D respectively.
Given A=C & B=D, A*B*C*D=900=>B^2*A^2=900=>B*A=30. Possible combinations are (30*1),(15*2),(10*3),(6*5)
Statement 1: B-A=P(prime) => (30*1),(15*2), & (10*3) satisfy the equation. Therefore statement 1 is insufficient.
Statement 2: D-(C+4)=P or B-(A+4)=P or B-A-4=P. Now only (10*3) satisfy. Therefore B=D=10 and statement 2 is sufficient.
Answer: (B)



It appears statement 2 is not sufficient.

Analyzing statement 2:

Statement 2: |D - (C+4)| = prime number ...equ(1)

|D - (C+4)| = D - (C+4) if D > C+4 ...equ(2)
|D - (C+4)| = (C+4) - D if C+4 > D ...equ(3)

Note (C+4) can be greater than D even when C is less than D. This new relation does not violate the information; D is greater than C, in the question stem.

From question stem we know that (D,C) = {(30,1), (15,2), (10,3), (6,5)}

|D - (C+4)| = {equ(2), equ(2), equ(2), equ(3)}

|D - (C+4)| = {25, 9, 3, 3}

But from equ(1), |D - (C+4)| = prime number

Therefore, |D - (C+4)| = {3, 3}

Implies (D,C) = {(10,3), (6,5)}

Implies D = {10, 6}

Since we can not obtain a definite answer to the value of D as requested by the question stem, statement 2 is insufficient, making option B a wrong choice.

Combining statements 1 and 2:

Statement 1 implies D = {30, 15, 10}
Statement 2 implies D = {10, 6}
Combining statement 1 and 2 implies D = 10

Since we can obtain a definite answer to the value of D as requested by the question stem when we combine statements 1 and 2, both statements, when combined, are sufficient, making option C the right choice.

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Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
Took me a while to see why statement 2 is in fact sufficient.

“Had Carl been born 4 years earlier”

The ambiguity arises regarding whether you can use the case:

Duncan = 10

Carl = 3

We are making the calculation under the assumption that Carl was born 4 year prior and lived until now: NOT that he’s 4 years younger.

If he was born in 2018 ———> 3 years old


“Has he been born 4 years before” ———> born in 2014 ———-> he would now be 7 years old

And

D - C = 10 - 7 = 3 a prime number.

Thus, we have 2 valid cases for statement 2 and it’s not sufficient.

D = 10, C = 3

And

D = 6, C = 5

Only when you apply both statements together do you have one unique value for Duncan’s age.

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Re: Abe, Beth, Carl and Duncan are four siblings, among which Abe and Carl [#permalink]
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