Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important)

thank you stacey! I look forward to seeing your update tomorrow (Monday)

Stacey,

Thanks for all the updates !!! They are really useful.

I would like to ask one question. Do you think certain types of questions will now become more common ?

1) Verb tenses - These questions are very meaning/intent oriented.
2) Comparisons - Another type which is heavy on the intent factor.

Crick

Hi guys,

This is my first post.
About the meaning issue, I always wondered one thing.

If within one question two choices are grammatically correct but with different meanings.
Which one should be the reference?

By meaning, do you mean incoherence?

thx,

Ben

Stacey,
Have you gotten the list posted on your blog? I'd like to say I'm excited, but how excited can you really get to study GMAT?

Hey Guys,

Stacey has gone through the first 100 OG q's and the results are posted here: https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... h-meaning/

More to come soon!

Thanks, Stacey!

Caitlin

today i took the gmat, went from 740 in practice test to 650... dont know what to do

I dont understand why the new "meaning" oriented SC should cause so much tension. I dont think its in favor of one group or against other. If anyone was doing SC problems without understanding meaning of the sentence and simply following rules they have mugged, then that is absolutelt wrong method. No-one can solve any of the gmat problem without understanding meaning. If the new SC is stressing on meaning rather that typical idioms, then it should be, infact, in favor of non-native speakers. And if a person is taking Gmat to get into American schools, then he/she has to learn the way Americans speak. There are many ways to get familiar with English day-to-day language. Some books and films have already been suggested on the forum. I think we all should happily welcome the new changes rather that creating horror about them.

e.g.
Incorrect - The findings of group A are more accurate than group B.
Grammatically correct but incorrect meaning.

Correct - The findings of group A are more accurate than those of group B.

You compare findings of a group with findings of another group. You don't compare findings of a group with another group.

Out of two different meanings, only one will be logically correct.

It is not "new" meaning oriented SC. It always has been meaning oriented. But people have been blindly trying to solve using just grammatical rules and have been suffering for it. The only thing is that lately, they have been focusing more on meaning oriented sentences since accuracy is very important (people have been neglecting it and suffering more and more). Look at the example above. Wouldn't you say that the first sentence is atrocious and illogical? All of us need to take care of accuracy in our day to day interactions.

The "new" SC is not stressing on meaning RATHER THAN typical idioms. There is no comparison here. Meaning was and is a very important component of SC.

Idioms, on the other hand, are passe (and have been for a long time). First of all, they involve rote memorization while GMAT focuses on 'Reasoning skills'. My software corrects me when I use an idiom incorrectly. Secondly, GMAC is trying to make it a level playing field for everyone. Would you use

They're WAITING ON the results of the vote before taking a final decision.
Or
They're WAITING FOR the results of the vote before taking a final decision.

I think your choice will depend on your background. If they test this in GMAT, the field is not level. GMAT is taken by students in 100s of countries and the scores are accepted by many schools outside US too. GMAT score is considered a standard to compare people across the globe. Inclusion of such questions will make GMAT unsuitable and it will not be considered an 'International standard exam'. Why would GMAT focus on making people learn English the 'American way' or 'British way'? If it did focus on the way English is spoken in one particular country, why would a school in India, say ISB, take GMAT scores while accepting Indians to study business and work in India?
GMAT is an international standard exam and has been for a long time. GMAC has been focusing on making it 'reasoning' oriented for a long time now. That is why we keep telling you to not focus too much on idioms. You should obviously know things such as "as many as" not "as many than" etc (things that are standard in every flavor of English) but I doubt they will test you on these.
While preparing for SC, think 'reason' and 'logic', not 'learn up the rules'.

Ok clearer. So in fact in your 1st example the sentence is just meaningless.
So there couldn't be a case where we would have to choose between to options which would be grammatically correct and both meaningful

Yes, that is what we mean by 'focus on the meaning'. Only one option will be logically sound.

In my opinion as information disseminates it loses its originality. So far there has not been a single direct statement from the side of GMAC. What feedbacks we are getting are second-hand and its not right to form an absolute opinion on such feedbacks. Opinions such as we simply don't need idioms any longer or any particular idiom will definitely not come on real Gmat etc are too immature and should not be made. Too see how information loses its originality see how MGMT's blog has been interpreted by another test prep company aristolerep - Posted 22/09/2011 Change #1 –' Idioms have been completely eliminated from the test'- This is an extremely hasty conclusion.

As a non-native speaker I have always struggled with grammar but I will not leave any efforts to get at least the score I deserve. And for getting that score I will not leave things on chances that idioms may have been completely removed . What if there are still some idioms tested on gmat and I get that ? GMAC has not even defined idioms. In strict sense idioms are special phrases whereas we believe correct usage of prepositions to be the idioms. However its great that issue of meaning has been raised, I always found meaning to be the most difficult and essential issue to understand while solving a Sc problem. Many people are posting questions involving meaning and its really helping us all. But this meaning issue should not be seen as New obstacle or something which is sure to make your score drop by 100 points. Irrespective of how much emphasis we are giving to meaning issue right now it was always tested on Gmat.

Official Response from the GMAC:

To Be Available on mba.com later today

[quote2Lawrence M. Rudner]Idioms, Sentence Correction, and the GMAT Exam

Recently there has been some discussion and questioning about the role and place of idioms and sentence correction as they apply to the skills tested in the GMAT exam. Much of what has been written has been well-reasoned, but some of what has been written is only partially accurate or reflects some misconceptions. With this posting, I hope to put these two important pieces of the GMAT exam in their proper place within the context of what the exam measures and how.

Idioms:

The general categories of language-use skill tested in GMAT Sentence Correction items haven’t
changed, and test takers do not need to do anything different to prepare for the Verbal section of the GMAT exam. For years, GMAC has paid close attention to the growing international make-up of GMAT test takers and has worked to assure that the exam is not viewed as─nor is it actually─an American test. As the GMAT exam has expanded globally and been taken by more students from around the world, GMAC has continually made extra efforts to ensure that newly introduced GMAT items do not depend on familiarity with distinctively American expressions and usages. We have taken steps all along the way to ensure global fairness and appropriateness.

Still, every language everywhere in the world consists of idioms, or standard constructions that are not literally derived from the most basic rules of grammar and vocabulary. Some Sentence Correction items continue to pose reasoning tasks that incorporate English-language, NOT American, idioms. These are not intended to test specialized knowledge of colloquialisms and regionalisms.

Grammar in Sentence Correction:

In recent years, GMAT item writers have been concentrating on the reasoning aspects rather than the purely grammatical aspects of Sentence Correction skills. As always, test takers need to carefully read the prompt in order to choose the answer that produces the most effective sentence. This means that whereas two sentences may both be grammatically appropriate, the correct answer is the sentence that is most “effective”─the sentence that better expresses the idea.

The end result is a GMAT exam that doesn’t test simply a person’s ability to memorize grammatical rules or recognize idioms for their colloquial meanings, but a test that rewards reasoning regardless of the test taker’s background.

The recent back and forth around whether idioms are in or out or how Sentence Correction works ignores the fact that the core purpose of the exam hasn’t ever changed, even as the way we treat certain categories in order to meet the needs of our ever expanding marketplace may have. The GMAT exam tests higher-order reasoning, and preparing for the exam remains an
exercise in developing and exercising those skills.

─Lawrence M. Rudner, GMAC vice president of research and development and chief psychometrician[/quote2]

That's an awesome response to all the rumours and unprecedented information circulating around..

Thanks GMAT CLUB! Kudos to you guys!

lol Ill let you know. I am taking my test at 4 pm today

The debrief made by MGMAT about this subject is great. MGMAT's team were at the GMAT summit and they published the details in its website.

Great post!! Thank you for the clarity and info that is straight from the source

Posted from my mobile device