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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
[#permalink]
08 May 2020, 00:56
08 May 2020, 00:56
2
Kudos
Hi adkikani
Thanks for taking time and writing point-wise details..!!
First of all, I took 3:11 minutes, a below par effort, to solve the question and posted my raw understanding - only whatever came first, within half-an-hour. I reviewed it and found couple of errors that i could not figure out and that i would have thought priority-wise. I strictly didn't edit my post for the reasons that i was not having a rock solid understanding(is there one btw?) about a few things. Also, i understand that you don't learn by simply reviewing the answer choices but from mistakes of others and a raw explanation like mine would help others to relate with their approach.
Before i proceed further a big thank to MentorTutoring for giving proper words to my understanding of the choices. Also, I like daagh sir's explanations since i like abstract explanations and they are the best ones especially for 700+ level which are what you look for in such heavily dosed questions.
Coming to answer choices. So, here's a look into my raw thought process.
Yes, it would have been better had i understood it what he has pointed. And for that reason i had bookmarked it. However, i had a gut feeling on reading that there might be two possibilities from there(using) on so i wrote open-ended. The only reason that i didn't write about that comma before using is that somewhere on the forum i read that commas are not tested in GMAT.
Let me try to help.The core of sentence is a discovery, so ideally I would love to see it as main verb .
In this choice, if you look closely to have been used and discovered are made ||el and the sentence no longer
stresses more on a discovery and places discovery and used on same plane of reference.
I think the verb was lost is also incorrect to show prior of two actions (much like a past perfect tense, much on that in a minute)
AjiteshArun MentorTutoring Can you add your two cents, confirming that discovered is not a verb-ed modifier?
There are many hinge points - SVA, parallelism, meaning etc. as we all know - based on which you can evaluate a sentence. Two ways in which i saw this one based on 'and' marker:
1. An eight-inch plaster model is believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David and recently discovered after it was ....
'believed' and 'recently discovered' look far distant to be parallel since belief is age old than discovery - different timelines.
2. An eight-inch plaster model is believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David and recently discovered after it was ....
This is more nastier as you can see the chronology of the two possible parallel things.
Agree that discovery can be the main verb but i think you meant 'used' and 'discovered' to be parallel.
I believe you did superb to catch the absence of missing verb as doubts raised by Asad. Keep up the good work!
If you meant that second it refers to sculpture and not model, Bingo! Good job.
However, I would still take pronoun as last arsenal in my armor kit, and I guess bigger issue is why are we making two independent clauses and losing core meaning to highlight discovery of model. Let me know if this resonates with you.
AjiteshArun MentorTutoring
Could you add why a present participle (in passive form) is used over a past perfect (though later is not present in any options)?
After reading E, i put D and E in same basket for how they used 'it'. But i should not do it since many-a-times GMAT plays psychologically by offering the right answer choice just after a similar looking wrong one. May be i got lucky
D. It was all good till the point 'AND' is reached after which things were devastating since AND requires two ICs. But then, more importantly, it was about missing of a verb. Also, the first 'it' was fine but second one had two possible antecedents - eight-inch plaster model and sculpture of David - most likely, model.
E. This is a disaster so i wrote nothing much however putting it in the same basket as D had a bigger role for not writing much. But it had greater issue with the parallelism than usage of 'it'. I'm sure you know it now what i mean.
Both D and E were open-ended choices so choosing them was not possible.
Lastly, out of five, three choices are gone for parallelism issues but by this time i had spent 3+ minutes.
But thanks to JonShukhrat for sharing those links about 'it' usage.
However, making rules out of that would be disastrous.
Happy learning...!!
_________________
Thanks for taking time and writing point-wise details..!!
First of all, I took 3:11 minutes, a below par effort, to solve the question and posted my raw understanding - only whatever came first, within half-an-hour. I reviewed it and found couple of errors that i could not figure out and that i would have thought priority-wise. I strictly didn't edit my post for the reasons that i was not having a rock solid understanding(is there one btw?) about a few things. Also, i understand that you don't learn by simply reviewing the answer choices but from mistakes of others and a raw explanation like mine would help others to relate with their approach.
Before i proceed further a big thank to MentorTutoring for giving proper words to my understanding of the choices. Also, I like daagh sir's explanations since i like abstract explanations and they are the best ones especially for 700+ level which are what you look for in such heavily dosed questions.
Coming to answer choices. So, here's a look into my raw thought process.
adkikani wrote:
lnm87
Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an eight-inch plaster model that was recently discovered after being lost for nearly 300 years.
You may like to view daagh Sir's approach about how without a coma, a verb-ing modifier using incorrectly modifies David.
Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an eight-inch plaster model that was recently discovered after being lost for nearly 300 years.
Quote:
A) Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an eight-inch plaster model that was recently discovered after being - WRONG. The placeholder pronoun 'it' seems fine. But I think problem is with the placement of 'it is believed' since the its placement in original sentence suggests to modify Michelangelo whereas it should modify usage of eight-inch plaster model or the model itself. Bit confused, but anyhow looks open ended and clumsily ambiguous.
You may like to view daagh Sir's approach about how without a coma, a verb-ing modifier using incorrectly modifies David.
Yes, it would have been better had i understood it what he has pointed. And for that reason i had bookmarked it. However, i had a gut feeling on reading that there might be two possibilities from there(using) on so i wrote open-ended. The only reason that i didn't write about that comma before using is that somewhere on the forum i read that commas are not tested in GMAT.
Quote:
Quote:
B) An eight-inch plaster model is believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David and recently discovered after it was - WRONG. 'And' signifies parallelism but between which two things. So, structure of the sentence is 'Noun(An.. model) + verb(is) + X(believed...David) + and + Y(recently...years). 'Is recently' really doesn't make sense. Not sure though about the way i eliminated it.
Let me try to help.The core of sentence is a discovery, so ideally I would love to see it as main verb .
In this choice, if you look closely to have been used and discovered are made ||el and the sentence no longer
stresses more on a discovery and places discovery and used on same plane of reference.
I think the verb was lost is also incorrect to show prior of two actions (much like a past perfect tense, much on that in a minute)
AjiteshArun MentorTutoring Can you add your two cents, confirming that discovered is not a verb-ed modifier?
There are many hinge points - SVA, parallelism, meaning etc. as we all know - based on which you can evaluate a sentence. Two ways in which i saw this one based on 'and' marker:
1. An eight-inch plaster model is believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David and recently discovered after it was ....
'believed' and 'recently discovered' look far distant to be parallel since belief is age old than discovery - different timelines.
2. An eight-inch plaster model is believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David and recently discovered after it was ....
This is more nastier as you can see the chronology of the two possible parallel things.
Agree that discovery can be the main verb but i think you meant 'used' and 'discovered' to be parallel.
Quote:
Quote:
D) It is believed that an eight-inch plaster model that Michelangelo used for his sculpture of David and has recently been discovered after it was : WRONG. Easier to eliminate since 'it' is used twice and they refer to two different things. Also part before and 'It is believed... David' is missing a verb. Plus the clumsiness.
I believe you did superb to catch the absence of missing verb as doubts raised by Asad. Keep up the good work!
Quote:
E) It is believed that Michelangelo used an eight-inch plaster model for his sculpture of David, and it was recently discovered after having been - WRONG. Easier to eliminate. Again similar error for using 'it' as that in D.
If you meant that second it refers to sculpture and not model, Bingo! Good job.
However, I would still take pronoun as last arsenal in my armor kit, and I guess bigger issue is why are we making two independent clauses and losing core meaning to highlight discovery of model. Let me know if this resonates with you.
AjiteshArun MentorTutoring
Could you add why a present participle (in passive form) is used over a past perfect (though later is not present in any options)?
After reading E, i put D and E in same basket for how they used 'it'. But i should not do it since many-a-times GMAT plays psychologically by offering the right answer choice just after a similar looking wrong one. May be i got lucky
D. It was all good till the point 'AND' is reached after which things were devastating since AND requires two ICs. But then, more importantly, it was about missing of a verb. Also, the first 'it' was fine but second one had two possible antecedents - eight-inch plaster model and sculpture of David - most likely, model.
E. This is a disaster so i wrote nothing much however putting it in the same basket as D had a bigger role for not writing much. But it had greater issue with the parallelism than usage of 'it'. I'm sure you know it now what i mean.
Both D and E were open-ended choices so choosing them was not possible.
Lastly, out of five, three choices are gone for parallelism issues but by this time i had spent 3+ minutes.
But thanks to JonShukhrat for sharing those links about 'it' usage.
However, making rules out of that would be disastrous.
Happy learning...!!
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
[#permalink]
10 May 2020, 22:14
10 May 2020, 22:14
GMATninja, EMPOWERGmat
Could you please help in this very very difficult question.
Could you please help in this very very difficult question.
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
[#permalink]
Updated on: 16 Aug 2020, 02:35
Updated on: 16 Aug 2020, 02:35
2
Kudos
yatindra20 wrote:
GMATninja, EMPOWERGmat
Could you please help in this very very difficult question.
Could you please help in this very very difficult question.
Hi Yatendra,
I would like to know the option you chose so that your doubt gets clear.
Anyway I hope below explanation will resolve your query. Let's look at the question.
Option A
Quote:
Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an eight-inch plaster model that was recently discovered after being lost for nearly 300 years.
Here Major issue is Pronoun error.
It is believed(Michelangelo is believed had made his sculpture) doesn't make sense here.
Option B
Quote:
An eight-inch plaster model is believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David and recently discovered after it was
Use of "and" is wrong here due to following reason.
"and" is acting as separator here i.e. specify two independent events. But if look meaning wise,
1.An eight-inch plaster model is believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David
2.An eight-inch plaster model is recently discovered after it was lost for nearly 300 years.
Two separate events doesn't make sense in the context of sentence.
Another reason to eliminate "B" is pronoun ambiguity.
it can refer to "An eight-inch plaster model" or "sculpture of David".
Option C
Quote:
An eight-inch plaster model believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David has been discovered after having been
Here passive voice "An eight-inch plaster model believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David" is correct as per rules.
Second phase clearly explains " An eight-inch plaster model has been discovered after having been lost for nearly 300 years."
I hope it helps
Originally posted by Harsh2111s on 12 May 2020, 00:15.
Last edited by Harsh2111s on 16 Aug 2020, 02:35, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by Harsh2111s on 16 Aug 2020, 02:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
[#permalink]
19 May 2020, 00:36
19 May 2020, 00:36
MentorTutoring AjiteshArun VeritasKarishma
I would really appreciate your inputs, I understand that "Have been Verbed" can be used to
a. Showcase someone that was started in past and continued till current time.
b. Showcase effect of an action that started in past.
However, I am unable to apply and make sense how is this correct in option C.
An eight-inch plaster model believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David has been discovered after having been lost for nearly 300 years.
having been lost for nearly 300 years :- this makes sense as it was lost for a period of 300 years.
But what doesn't make sense to me is "have been used by Michelangelo" and "has been discovered".
I would really appreciate your inputs, I understand that "Have been Verbed" can be used to
a. Showcase someone that was started in past and continued till current time.
b. Showcase effect of an action that started in past.
However, I am unable to apply and make sense how is this correct in option C.
An eight-inch plaster model believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David has been discovered after having been lost for nearly 300 years.
having been lost for nearly 300 years :- this makes sense as it was lost for a period of 300 years.
But what doesn't make sense to me is "have been used by Michelangelo" and "has been discovered".
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
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19 May 2020, 00:54
19 May 2020, 00:54
3
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Expert Reply
hero_with_1000_faces wrote:
MentorTutoring AjiteshArun VeritasKarishma
I would really appreciate your inputs, I understand that "Have been Verbed" can be used to
a. Showcase someone that was started in past and continued till current time.
b. Showcase effect of an action that started in past.
However, I am unable to apply and make sense how is this correct in option C.
An eight-inch plaster model believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David has been discovered after having been lost for nearly 300 years.
having been lost for nearly 300 years :- this makes sense as it was lost for a period of 300 years.
But what doesn't make sense to me is "have been used by Michelangelo" and "has been discovered".
Hi hero_with_1000_faces,I would really appreciate your inputs, I understand that "Have been Verbed" can be used to
a. Showcase someone that was started in past and continued till current time.
b. Showcase effect of an action that started in past.
However, I am unable to apply and make sense how is this correct in option C.
An eight-inch plaster model believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David has been discovered after having been lost for nearly 300 years.
having been lost for nearly 300 years :- this makes sense as it was lost for a period of 300 years.
But what doesn't make sense to me is "have been used by Michelangelo" and "has been discovered".
If I've understood your question correctly, you are looking at the have been used in the sentence. Has/have been used can be a verb:
1. X has been used by Y. ← Here has been used is a verb (its subject is X).
In the sentence you are looking at, however, the have been used is actually not a complete verb. It is part of the infinitive phrase to have been used. The (perfect) infinitive in this sentence actually introduces something in the past. Let's take another sentence, one with an is before believed.
2. X is believed to have been used by Y. ← Here is believed is a (full) verb, one that combines with a subject to create an independent clause. Infinitives can't do that.
Now to see how a perfect infinitive can be used to show that something happened in the past:
3. X is believed to be Y. ← This sentence, which uses the present infinitive, should give you the impression that X is Y.
4. X is believed to have been Y. ← This sentence, which uses the perfect infinitive, should give you the impression that X was Y at some point in the past.
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
[#permalink]
19 May 2020, 06:55
19 May 2020, 06:55
2
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Expert Reply
hero_with_1000_faces wrote:
MentorTutoring AjiteshArun VeritasKarishma
I would really appreciate your inputs, I understand that "Have been Verbed" can be used to
a. Showcase someone that was started in past and continued till current time.
b. Showcase effect of an action that started in past.
However, I am unable to apply and make sense how is this correct in option C.
An eight-inch plaster model believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David has been discovered after having been lost for nearly 300 years.
having been lost for nearly 300 years :- this makes sense as it was lost for a period of 300 years.
But what doesn't make sense to me is "have been used by Michelangelo" and "has been discovered".
I would really appreciate your inputs, I understand that "Have been Verbed" can be used to
a. Showcase someone that was started in past and continued till current time.
b. Showcase effect of an action that started in past.
However, I am unable to apply and make sense how is this correct in option C.
An eight-inch plaster model believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David has been discovered after having been lost for nearly 300 years.
having been lost for nearly 300 years :- this makes sense as it was lost for a period of 300 years.
But what doesn't make sense to me is "have been used by Michelangelo" and "has been discovered".
Hello, hero_with_1000_faces. I agree with what has been written above, so I will only add that I think you could benefit from expanding your knowledge of the usage or application of the present perfect tense. See, for example, this article on the topic, which expands upon the two instances you have outlined above. I hope it proves helpful.
Thank you for tagging me.
- Andrew
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
[#permalink]
19 May 2020, 13:26
19 May 2020, 13:26
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Expert Reply
generis wrote:
Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an eight-inch plaster model that was recently discovered after being lost for nearly 300 years.
A) Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an eight-inch plaster model that was recently discovered after being
B) An eight-inch plaster model is believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David and recently discovered after it was
C) An eight-inch plaster model believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David has been discovered after having been
D) It is believed that an eight-inch plaster model that Michelangelo used for his sculpture of David and has recently been discovered after it was
E) It is believed that Michelangelo used an eight-inch plaster model for his sculpture of David, and it was recently discovered after having been
SC07920.02
A) Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an eight-inch plaster model that was recently discovered after being
B) An eight-inch plaster model is believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David and recently discovered after it was
C) An eight-inch plaster model believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David has been discovered after having been
D) It is believed that an eight-inch plaster model that Michelangelo used for his sculpture of David and has recently been discovered after it was
E) It is believed that Michelangelo used an eight-inch plaster model for his sculpture of David, and it was recently discovered after having been
SC07920.02
A and E are common traps here.
The OG explanation below explains 3 issues with A, including the issue with "using", that daagh correctly explained above.
1) "The structure of the sentence leaves the message somewhat unclear. Which of the following is it primarily meant to convey: (1) a belief about how Michelangelo made the sculpture of David or (2) a report about a recent discovery of a plaster model? The use and placement of the parenthetical it is believed is awkward and contributes toward making the meaning unclear. For example, is the discovery of the plaster model and its having been lost for almost 300 years part of what is believed? Or does the belief merely comprise the claim that Michelangelo used the model?"
2) "A further issue arises with the phrasing his sculpture of David using an eight-inch plaster model. We can readily get an absurd reading from this if we take the participial phrase using . . . model as predicated of David; it suggests that the sculpture portrayed David in the action of using an eight-inch plaster model."
3) "A verb-form issue arises with the past-perfect form had made, where the simple past made would be more appropriate."
E: We can't use the same pronoun "it" twice to refer to 2 different things.
Here's another challenging question that involves this issue: https://gmatclub.com/forum/heavy-commit ... 10136.html
OG: "E: The second portion of the sentence, it was recently discovered . . . is set off by a comma as an independent clause, so it is not part of what the first part of the sentence says is believed. Thus, if the second occurrence of it is understood as referring to the model, the sentence is rhetorically somewhat odd. It appears to indicate that Michelangelo is merely believed to have used a plaster model, but it then asserts that the model that is (currently) only believed to exist was recently discovered. Another issue with this version concerns the second occurrence of the pronoun it: hypothetically, it could refer to his sculpture of David, or to an eight-inch plaster model. Instead of the pronoun it, something like that model or even what is believed to be that model would make the sentence clearer and more precise."
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
[#permalink]
23 May 2020, 15:45
23 May 2020, 15:45
GMATNinja, can you please help with choice E?
Why is choice E wrong? Because the 'it' used after comma + and doesn't have a clear referent? 'It' could refer to the plaster model or it could refer to the sculpture. This creates ambiguity in the meaning.
Also, can the same pronoun be used twice in a sentence to refer to two different antecedents?
Thank you!
Why is choice E wrong? Because the 'it' used after comma + and doesn't have a clear referent? 'It' could refer to the plaster model or it could refer to the sculpture. This creates ambiguity in the meaning.
Also, can the same pronoun be used twice in a sentence to refer to two different antecedents?
Thank you!
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
[#permalink]
24 May 2020, 05:43
24 May 2020, 05:43
MentorTutoring
Thank you, so, usage of "present perfect" is correct here, as it used to present accomplishment.
Appreciate your inputs good sir.
Thank you, so, usage of "present perfect" is correct here, as it used to present accomplishment.
Appreciate your inputs good sir.
Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
[#permalink]
24 May 2020, 06:13
24 May 2020, 06:13
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Expert Reply
hero_with_1000_faces wrote:
MentorTutoring
Thank you, so, usage of "present perfect" is correct here, as it used to present accomplishment.
Appreciate your inputs good sir.
Thank you, so, usage of "present perfect" is correct here, as it used to present accomplishment.
Appreciate your inputs good sir.
Yes, the present perfect works fine in the sentence at hand to show that at some unspecified point in the past, Michelangelo may have used a maquette for the statue of David, one that was recently found. If you understand what makes the four incorrect answer choices incorrect, then I think you will have learned (future perfect) as much as you could hope to learn from this particular question.
Good luck with your studies.
- Andrew
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
[#permalink]
24 May 2020, 06:56
24 May 2020, 06:56
Hello MentorTutoring
I would be very grateful, if you could review my methodology applied in this question, and whether I am making any grammatical mistakes, Thank You.
We need to eliminate this bcoz:
a. had made his sculpture of David: The usage of Had is wrong as there no other past tense used in the sentence which has bearing or reference to this “usage of had”.
b. Usage of “using” is wrong as it modifies David, David doesn’t use eight-inch plaster.
We need to check parallelism from Y to X, “recently discovered after it” a verb-ed modifier that needs to make sense with X part and we need to check whether it is parallel to the X part; in the X part, “used by Michelangelo for his” might be taken as parallel (in a mechanical way), However “believed to have been used….” (X) and “believed to have been recently discovered” (Y)changes the meaning and doesn’t make sense. Hence, we can eliminate this option. I hope I am right here.
Had eliminated earlier, due to earlier limited understanding of usage of present perfect Tense.
We need to check parallelism from Y to X, “has recently been” a verb needs to make sense with X part and whether it is parallel to the X part; there is no parallel verb in the X part, even if we take used as a verb “Michelangelo used his sculpture and has been discovered” (Michelangelo has been discovered) doesn’t make sense. Hence, we can eliminate this option.
I would be very grateful, if you could review my methodology applied in this question, and whether I am making any grammatical mistakes, Thank You.
Quote:
A) Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an eight-inch plaster model that was recently discovered after being
We need to eliminate this bcoz:
a. had made his sculpture of David: The usage of Had is wrong as there no other past tense used in the sentence which has bearing or reference to this “usage of had”.
b. Usage of “using” is wrong as it modifies David, David doesn’t use eight-inch plaster.
Quote:
B) An eight-inch plaster model is believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David and recently discovered after it was
We need to check parallelism from Y to X, “recently discovered after it” a verb-ed modifier that needs to make sense with X part and we need to check whether it is parallel to the X part; in the X part, “used by Michelangelo for his” might be taken as parallel (in a mechanical way), However “believed to have been used….” (X) and “believed to have been recently discovered” (Y)changes the meaning and doesn’t make sense. Hence, we can eliminate this option. I hope I am right here.
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C) An eight-inch plaster model believed to have been used by Michelangelo for his sculpture of David has been discovered after having been
Had eliminated earlier, due to earlier limited understanding of usage of present perfect Tense.
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D) It is believed that an eight-inch plaster model that Michelangelo used for his sculpture of David and has recently been discovered after it was
We need to check parallelism from Y to X, “has recently been” a verb needs to make sense with X part and whether it is parallel to the X part; there is no parallel verb in the X part, even if we take used as a verb “Michelangelo used his sculpture and has been discovered” (Michelangelo has been discovered) doesn’t make sense. Hence, we can eliminate this option.
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E) It is believed that Michelangelo used an eight-inch plaster model for his sculpture of David, and it was recently discovered after having been
Again checking from X to Y, “It (Model) was recently discovered” (Y) and “Model for his sculpture” (X); there are not structurally parallel, as there is no verb in X. Hence eliminate.
Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
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24 May 2020, 07:32
24 May 2020, 07:32
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hero_with_1000_faces wrote:
Hello MentorTutoring
I would be very grateful, if you could review my methodology applied in this question, and whether I am making any grammatical mistakes, Thank You.
I would be very grateful, if you could review my methodology applied in this question, and whether I am making any grammatical mistakes, Thank You.
Yes, I would say you have it now, through and through. Now let the dust settle on this one and see if you can apply your newfound knowledge to the next set of questions. Well done.
- Andrew
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
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Updated on: 16 Aug 2020, 02:10
Updated on: 16 Aug 2020, 02:10
Dear IanStewart
Could you, please, illustrate how to correctly split the main and auxiliary verb with a conjunction “and”?
For example: Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and seen...
Here “have” applies to both “looked up” and “seen”.
How about a passive construction?
B. An eight-inch plaster model is believed to have been used... and recently discovered...
Can “have been” apply to “recently discovered” and read as “have been recently discovered”? Is such split legitimate? I was unable to find an official precedent.
Many thanks beforehand!
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Could you, please, illustrate how to correctly split the main and auxiliary verb with a conjunction “and”?
For example: Visitors to the park have often looked up into the leafy canopy and seen...
Here “have” applies to both “looked up” and “seen”.
How about a passive construction?
B. An eight-inch plaster model is believed to have been used... and recently discovered...
Can “have been” apply to “recently discovered” and read as “have been recently discovered”? Is such split legitimate? I was unable to find an official precedent.
Many thanks beforehand!
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Mission complete.
Originally posted by JonShukhrat on 28 May 2020, 04:54.
Last edited by JonShukhrat on 16 Aug 2020, 02:10, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by JonShukhrat on 16 Aug 2020, 02:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
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08 Jun 2020, 12:05
08 Jun 2020, 12:05
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Rocknrolla21 wrote:
GMATNinja, can you please help with choice E?
Why is choice E wrong? Because the 'it' used after comma + and doesn't have a clear referent? 'It' could refer to the plaster model or it could refer to the sculpture. This creates ambiguity in the meaning.
Also, can the same pronoun be used twice in a sentence to refer to two different antecedents?
Thank you!
Why is choice E wrong? Because the 'it' used after comma + and doesn't have a clear referent? 'It' could refer to the plaster model or it could refer to the sculpture. This creates ambiguity in the meaning.
Also, can the same pronoun be used twice in a sentence to refer to two different antecedents?
Thank you!
I think you have the right idea here.
The first "it" in choice (E) doesn't refer to any specific noun in the sentence -- this is known as a non-referential pronoun (check out this thread for more on that). Non-referential pronouns only make sense in very limited circumstances, and they're relatively rare on the GMAT. However, there are not automatically wrong.
But in choice (E), the use of a non-referential pronoun to start the sentence leads us to believe that the second "it" is non-referential as well. In other words, we expect something like, "and it was recently discovered THAT _____". Once we realize that the second "it" actually DOES have a referent, we aren't clear about what that referent actually IS (model? sculpture?).
Does that make (E) wrong? Maybe, maybe not. But choice (C) avoids those issues entirely, so, regardless, (C) is a much better answer.
There's a good discussion of your second question ("can the same pronoun be used twice in a sentence to refer to two different antecedents?") starting with this post (make sure to check out the follow-up questions and answers).
In this official question, "it" and "its" refer to two different things, suggesting that we can't automatically eliminate a sentence that uses the same pronoun to refer to two different things. That said, if other answer choices avoid that issue, that might be a small vote in favor of those other choices.
I hope that helps!
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
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06 Aug 2020, 11:47
06 Aug 2020, 11:47
Why I am tripping over this question is because in answer choice C, *recently* is omitted which is an essential modifier and should be placed before discovered. I outrightly rejected answer choice C based on this.
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
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07 Aug 2020, 07:39
07 Aug 2020, 07:39
Expert Reply
deep31993 wrote:
Why I am tripping over this question is because in answer choice C, *recently* is omitted which is an essential modifier and should be placed before discovered. I outrightly rejected answer choice C based on this.
Hi deep31993,Don't you think that the present perfect is enough in this case?
1. A model has been discovered after having been lost for nearly 300 years.
2. A model has recently been discovered after having been lost for nearly 300 years.
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
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07 Aug 2020, 15:07
07 Aug 2020, 15:07
Expert Reply
deep31993 wrote:
Why I am tripping over this question is because in answer choice C, *recently* is omitted which is an essential modifier and should be placed before discovered. I outrightly rejected answer choice C based on this.
Great question deep31993!
The purpose of the word "recently" here is to act as an adverb, not a modifier. It's meant to modify "discovered." Adverbs aren't always necessary to the overall meaning of a sentence, so leaving it out isn't really a problem here.
We hope that helps! Tag us at EMPOWERgmatVerbal if you have any other questions, and we'll be happy to help!
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
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16 Aug 2020, 16:55
16 Aug 2020, 16:55
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JonShukhrat wrote:
Dear IanStewart
How about a passive construction?
B. An eight-inch plaster model is believed to have been used... and recently discovered...
Can “have been” apply to “recently discovered” and read as “have been recently discovered”? Is such split legitimate? I was unable to find an official precedent.
How about a passive construction?
B. An eight-inch plaster model is believed to have been used... and recently discovered...
Can “have been” apply to “recently discovered” and read as “have been recently discovered”? Is such split legitimate? I was unable to find an official precedent.
I don't think there's any reason passive constructions work differently from active ones in this respect. A sentence like this, for example, is perfectly fine, and the "has been" applies to both verbs: Corn has been cultivated and eaten in the region for centuries. If the sentence were more complicated, and each verb was part of a separate clause, the "has been" would need to be repeated (and a pronoun could optionally preface the second "has been"), so you would need to repeat the phrase in a sentence like Corn has been cultivated in this region for centuries, and (it) has been eaten here for almost as long. Your suggested phrasing about the plaster model doesn't work for that reason, and if one were to fix it, it would also need to become clear whether the model itself was recently discovered (which is the intended meaning, surely), or whether the model was only "believed to have been recently discovered" (that meaning doesn't make much sense).
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
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31 Aug 2020, 05:40
31 Aug 2020, 05:40
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Can someone clarify the usage of present perfect, especially considering what GMAC considers the right answer on this question:
https://gmatclub.com/forum/partly-as-a- ... 21767.html
An eight-inch plaster model believed to have been used by Michelangelo
Why do we use the present perfect here instead of "An eight-inch plaster model believed to be used by Michelangelo" - I know this sentence doesn't sound well on the ear, however, doesn't this go with the same principle which was used to justify the usage of the simple past in the problem cited above? The time frame in which the usage occurred is already over and there is no connection to the present.
Where am I getting this wrong? A general assertion of mine is that tenses on the GMAT are a pain in the ... as there isn't really a clear black and white, right or wrong distinction. One can also observe this when reading news article, the usage of present perfect without clearly established time frames is quite frequent.
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https://gmatclub.com/forum/partly-as-a- ... 21767.html
An eight-inch plaster model believed to have been used by Michelangelo
Why do we use the present perfect here instead of "An eight-inch plaster model believed to be used by Michelangelo" - I know this sentence doesn't sound well on the ear, however, doesn't this go with the same principle which was used to justify the usage of the simple past in the problem cited above? The time frame in which the usage occurred is already over and there is no connection to the present.
Where am I getting this wrong? A general assertion of mine is that tenses on the GMAT are a pain in the ... as there isn't really a clear black and white, right or wrong distinction. One can also observe this when reading news article, the usage of present perfect without clearly established time frames is quite frequent.
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Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an
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31 Aug 2020, 06:41
31 Aug 2020, 06:41
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chrtpmdr wrote:
An eight-inch plaster model believed to have been used by Michelangelo
Why do we use the present perfect here instead of "An eight-inch plaster model believed to be used by Michelangelo"
"to be" is in the present, so if you say "A model believed to be used by Michelangelo", you're saying Michelangelo is using the model now. Because Michelangelo is not using models any more, it needs to say "to have been used".
This is not analogous to the question you've linked to. In the linked question, you're truly dealing with verb tenses (the verb "increased" has a subject). Here, the -ed words are adjectives, so they don't indicate much on their own about time.
gmatclubot
Re: Michelangelo, it is believed, had made his sculpture of David using an [#permalink]
31 Aug 2020, 06:41
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