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Re: In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large numb [#permalink]
I choose D.

step 1. Choose answer choice with 'seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than'
This is the correct form of comparison.
So B and E are out.

step 2. In optiion C "than one another others." is just wrong english. So C is out.

step 3. Between A and D, D sounds more idiomatic to me.
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Re: In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large numb [#permalink]
I saw this just now from the new GMATprep software.
The question posted below had a typo in option c, which I went with... Wonder if anyone could explain why c is wrong as OA explanation doesn't quite make sense to me.
Quote:
C)each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than one another others.


"others" is extra. Option C should be "each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than one another

OA is D and the explanation why C is wrong is that:
This wording nonsensically suggests either that each firm seeks a contradictory situation in which it meets the needs and wants more successfully than do the other firms, and vice versa, or that each firm seeks to meet the needs better than the wants and to meet the wants better than the needs.
--> this explanation sounds so odd. The underlined part I agree with and it is the same with D, but why vice versa and the whole explication following "or" which doesn't make sense.

thanks!
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Re: In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large numb [#permalink]
egmat wrote:
lamania wrote:
I saw this just now from the new GMATprep software.
The question posted below had a typo in option c, which I went with... Wonder if anyone could explain why c is wrong as OA explanation doesn't quite make sense to me.
Quote:
C)each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than one another others.


"others" is extra. Option C should be "each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than one another

OA is D and the explanation why C is wrong is that:
This wording nonsensically suggests either that each firm seeks a contradictory situation in which it meets the needs and wants more successfully than do the other firms, and vice versa, or that each firm seeks to meet the needs better than the wants and to meet the wants better than the needs.
--> this explanation sounds so odd. The underlined part I agree with and it is the same with D, but why vice versa and the whole explication following "or" which doesn't make sense.

thanks!


Hi there,
In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large number of producing firms, all unfettered by governmental regulations, all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than each other.

A) all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than each other.
B) all seeking more successfully to meet consumer needs and wants than the others.
C) each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than one another.
D) each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than the others.
E) each seeking successfully to meet consumer needs and wants than another.

An important thing to observe here is the usage of “each other” and “one another”. These expressions are used to show reciprocal actions. Take these simple examples:

a. Laurel and Hardy love each other.
This sentence means that Laurel loves Hardy. And Hardy loves Laurel. So here we have reciprocal action here.

b. All the cartoon characters start fighting with one another towards the end of the show.
This sentence means that one cartoon character was fighting with every other character. Here to the action is reciprocal.

However, the original meaning of the sentence does not intend to express reciprocal actions. It actually compares all the producing firms with one another. On this basis, choices A and C can be eliminated for incorrect use of “each other” and “one another”.

Notice that in choices B and E, “successfully” is placed after “seeking” . Per this medication, the options mean that the producing firms are doing the job of seeking “successfully”. But the intended meaning is that the producing firms are seeking to meet the wants and needs of consumer successfully. Incorrect modification makes B and E incorrect.

Choice D is the correct answer that correctly presents the intended meaning of the sentence through correct modification and clear comparison.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
Shraddha



Hi Shraddha,

If the ans choice A were "all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than the others" , would that be the correct choice.?

I am not able to get the difference between the usage of "all" and "each" here. I feel there should be a conjunction after the first äll" in the non-underlined part of the sentence if we modify the choice A to be the correct answer.

Please clarify.
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Re: In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large numb [#permalink]
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monsoon1 wrote:
If the ans choice A were "all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than the others" , would that be the correct choice.?

I am not able to get the difference between the usage of "all" and "each" here. I feel there should be a conjunction after the first äll" in the non-underlined part of the sentence if we modify the choice A to be the correct answer.

Please clarify.


Hi monsoon1,

The change that you have suggested for choice A to be correct is absolutely correct. The sentence would be correct if there were “all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than the others”.

About the use of “conjunction” after the first “all phrase” in the non-underlined sentence, I would say it would be more a stylistic matter than grammatical issue. In the correct answer choice, we do have two parallel phrases starting with “pronouns”. Going by the rules, ideally we should use a conjunction here as well. But the way the sentence has been written, absence of a conjunction does not make the sentence incorrect.

Now let’s talk about the use of “each” and “all” here. Use of both the words in the context is correct as you can see in the correct answer choice. However, choice A is incorrect because of the use of “each other”. This phrase can be used only when we are talking about only two entities.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
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Re: In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large numb [#permalink]
I am opening this thread. In this SC below:-

In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large number of producing firms, all unfettered by governmental regulations, all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than each other.

A)all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than each other.
B)all seeking more successfully to meet consumer needs and wants than the others.

Both the choices are wrong because of "each other" and "modifier". In the above post someone mentioned that if we change choice (A) to
"all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than the others" Would this be correct ?

My question is different to what Mr. Monsoon has asked. What is wants here ? Is it a verb ? if yes, then its subject is all. We need a singular noun such as each here. Can we eliminate this choice by identifying this error ?

Looking forward to your replies

Thanks & Regards
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Re: In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large numb [#permalink]
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Hi,

Received a PM to respond this one.

In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large number of producing firms, all unfettered by governmental regulations, each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than the others.

In this sentence, "wants" is noun just like "needs". Per the meaning of the sentence, in a pure commercial competition, all producing firms will be seeking to meet consumer needs and wants. Hence, you cannot eliminate choices on SV basis.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
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Re: In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large numb [#permalink]
egmat wrote:
Hi,

Received a PM to respond this one.

In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large number of producing firms, all unfettered by governmental regulations, each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than the others.

In this sentence, "wants" is noun just like "needs". Per the meaning of the sentence, in a pure commercial competition, all producing firms will be seeking to meet consumer needs and wants. Hence, you cannot eliminate choices on SV basis.

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha


Thanks Shraddha. Appreciate your reply.
I must not have missed this particular identification. I was just simply differentiating the choices on the bases of each and all and just got this question correct by chance.

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Re: In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large numb [#permalink]
In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large number of producing firms, all unfettered by governmental regulations, all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than each other.

A)all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than each other.
B)all seeking more successfully to meet consumer needs and wants than the others.
C)each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than one another.
D)each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than the others.
E)each seeking successfully to meet consumer needs and wants than another

Please, your help and confirmation whether my reasoning in eliminating the choices is correct:
a) "each other" doesn't make sense in the sentence. In this case, we cannot compare "all" with "each other". The objective is to compare the individual effort of each one with the rest of the producing firms.
b) Misplaced modifier: Now "more succesfully" modifies "all seeking". It changes the intended meaning. "Others" doesn't make sense for the similar reasons in A.
c) "one another" is wrong. The idea of reciprocity is not required in this sentence.
d) Correct.
e) Misplaced modifier.

I have two additional doubts:
a) Is the structure in the choice an absolute phrase (a noun with a noun modifier that modifies the entire clause)? If the choices were noun modifiers, they would be modifying "government regulations" because noun modifiers modify the nouns next to them.
b) Is there a problem with "all"? In other words, could be there a structure correct using "all"?

Thanks!

Originally posted by danzig on 14 May 2013, 12:08.
Last edited by Zarrolou on 14 May 2013, 14:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large numb [#permalink]
Hi Shraddha

I was going through this question and I agree with you on the correct answer. However, I just have one question; in the correct answer it uses "the others"- is not that incorrect as well? ( ofcourse this choice is best amongst other but gramatically). Like we say, "Each one of us tries to outdo the other" ( when we are pointing at every one in the sample set one by one) OR " He is better off than others" ( when we are pointing to just one person out of the lot)?

I am just inquisitive about it.
Appreciate your reply.


egmat wrote:
lamania wrote:
I saw this just now from the new GMATprep software.
The question posted below had a typo in option c, which I went with... Wonder if anyone could explain why c is wrong as OA explanation doesn't quite make sense to me.
Quote:
C)each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than one another others.


"others" is extra. Option C should be "each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than one another

OA is D and the explanation why C is wrong is that:
This wording nonsensically suggests either that each firm seeks a contradictory situation in which it meets the needs and wants more successfully than do the other firms, and vice versa, or that each firm seeks to meet the needs better than the wants and to meet the wants better than the needs.
--> this explanation sounds so odd. The underlined part I agree with and it is the same with D, but why vice versa and the whole explication following "or" which doesn't make sense.

thanks!


Hi there,
In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large number of producing firms, all unfettered by governmental regulations, all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than each other.

A) all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than each other.
B) all seeking more successfully to meet consumer needs and wants than the others.
C) each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than one another.
D) each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than the others.
E) each seeking successfully to meet consumer needs and wants than another.

An important thing to observe here is the usage of “each other” and “one another”. These expressions are used to show reciprocal actions. Take these simple examples:

a. Laurel and Hardy love each other.
This sentence means that Laurel loves Hardy. And Hardy loves Laurel. So here we have reciprocal action here.

b. All the cartoon characters start fighting with one another towards the end of the show.
This sentence means that one cartoon character was fighting with every other character. Here to the action is reciprocal.

However, the original meaning of the sentence does not intend to express reciprocal actions. It actually compares all the producing firms with one another. On this basis, choices A and C can be eliminated for incorrect use of “each other” and “one another”.

Notice that in choices B and E, “successfully” is placed after “seeking” . Per this medication, the options mean that the producing firms are doing the job of seeking “successfully”. But the intended meaning is that the producing firms are seeking to meet the wants and needs of consumer successfully. Incorrect modification makes B and E incorrect.

Choice D is the correct answer that correctly presents the intended meaning of the sentence through correct modification and clear comparison.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
Shraddha
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danzig wrote:
I have two additional doubts:
a) Is the structure in the choice an absolute phrase (a noun with a noun modifier that modifies the entire clause)? If the choices were noun modifiers, they would be modifying "government regulations" because noun modifiers modify the nouns next to them.

These are the two absolute phrases (in the appositive construction):

a) all unfettered by governmental regulations
b) each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than the others
The portion in red in each of the above phrases is modifying all and each respectively. Both all and each by the way, are referring to producing firms.

danzig wrote:
b) Is there a problem with "all"? In other words, could be there a structure correct using "all"?


Was discussed above. Following would be ok: all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than the others
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Re: In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large numb [#permalink]
Has to be D, although this one made me think a bit.

The trick is that some of the options hint that the firms are trying to meet the needs of their competition rather than the needs of the public.
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Re: In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large numb [#permalink]
egmat wrote:
monsoon1 wrote:
If the ans choice A were "all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than the others" , would that be the correct choice.?

I am not able to get the difference between the usage of "all" and "each" here. I feel there should be a conjunction after the first äll" in the non-underlined part of the sentence if we modify the choice A to be the correct answer.

Please clarify.


Hi monsoon1,

The change that you have suggested for choice A to be correct is absolutely correct. The sentence would be correct if there were “all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than the others”.


Hi Shraddha

How can we compare all with others? If I understand right, we can only compare individuals with others.
For Eg. - Each of .... than others OR Every one of .... than others.
All of .... than others. We are talking about all, then who others are we talking about? :?
Please clarify

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swanidhi wrote:
Hi Shraddha

How can we compare all with others? If I understand right, we can only compare individuals with others.
For Eg. - Each of .... than others OR Every one of .... than others.
All of .... than others. We are talking about all, then who others are we talking about? :?
Please clarify

Regards
Swanidhi

Dear Swanidhi,
I'm happy to respond. :-) My friend, you are perfectly correct. There is a logic problem in comparing an individual to the "all." For example,
This shoe store is better than all shoe stores.
This shoe store is better than every shoe store.

These would imply that the specified shoe store were better than itself, which isn't possible.
We could say:
This shoe store is better than all others.
This shoe store is better than every other shoe store.

Both of those are perfectly correct. Also, notice we can use a comparison with the "all" for an individual not in the same group. Consider the sentence:
I am smarter than all the students in my class.
That would be an illogical statement for a student to make, but a perfectly logical statement for a teacher to make, since the teacher is not one of the students.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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swanidhi wrote:
Hi Shraddha

How can we compare all with others? If I understand right, we can only compare individuals with others.
For Eg. - Each of .... than others OR Every one of .... than others.
All of .... than others. We are talking about all, then who others are we talking about? :?
Please clarify

Regards
Swanidhi

Dear Swanidhi,
I'm happy to respond. :-) My friend, you are perfectly correct. There is a logic problem in comparing an individual to the "all." For example,
This shoe store is better than all shoe stores.
This shoe store is better than every shoe store.

These would imply that the specified shoe store were better than itself, which isn't possible.
We could say:
This shoe store is better than all others.
This shoe store is better than every other shoe store.

Both of those are perfectly correct. Also, notice we can use a comparison with the "all" for an individual not in the same group. Consider the sentence:
I am smarter than all the students in my class.
That would be an illogical statement for a student to make, but a perfectly logical statement for a teacher to make, since the teacher is not one of the students.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)


Mike, to my rescue! Thank you!
To summarize - If 2 entities, not a part of the same group, are compared, 'all' makes sense. However, in all other cases - when an entity is compared with others in the same pool, one must look out for the word 'than' and 'others' in the answer choice.
Did I make it a bad rule? :P
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swanidhi wrote:
Mike, to my rescue! Thank you!
To summarize - If 2 entities, not a part of the same group, are compared, 'all' makes sense. However, in all other cases - when an entity is compared with others in the same pool, one must look out for the word 'than' and 'others' in the answer choice.
Did I make it a bad rule? :P

Dear swanidhi
I'm happy to respond. :-)

Let's distinguish two different things. First of all, If X is not in Group G, then X can be compared to the "all" of Group G, but if X is a member of Group G, then X can only be compared to the "others" in Group G, not to the "all" of Group G.

The other issue is: remember not all comparisons involve the word "than." The word "as" is also a comparison word, for a different kind of comparison.
Student S is smarter than the other students in her class.
Student S is as smart as any other student in her class.

It appears that Student S is a member of the class, so we need the word "other" in both cases. Notice, though, both are valid comparisons, slightly different in meaning, and only one uses "than." This issue is entirely separate from the first issue. We could also do both kinds of comparisons with someone outside the group.
The teacher is smarter than all the students in the class.
The third grade teacher is as smart as any of the students in the advanced high school class.

Both of these are grammatically & logically correct as well.

Finally, in the big picture, remember that the point of studying SC is NOT to find a list of rules. If you strategy for mastering GMAT SC is to compile some complete set of grammar rules, this project is doomed to failure at the outset. So much of grammar is about instinct, about subtle sense of nuance, and one gets that only through extensive reading. It is essentially a right-brain endeavor, and any left-brain attempt to exhaust it, as in making a complete list of rules, is inherently flawed.

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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hfbamafan wrote:
In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large number of producing firms, all unfettered by governmental regulations, all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than each other.

(A) all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than each other.
(B) all seeking more successfully to meet consumer needs and wants than the others.
(C) each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than one another.
(D) each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than the others.
(E) each seeking successfully to meet consumer needs and wants than another


When you're comparing two things directly, you use each other. "These two teams hate each other!" .

When you're comparing MORE THAN two things, you use one another.

In spoken English we have this notion that "one another" is a fancy way of saying "each other", but that isn't true.

So it comes down to how you're making the comparison {A vs B} or {A vs B vs C} all at once. D is the correct one here.

In C, D, E, if we use "each", the comparison becomes singular. Kind of like "each of the students IS here"

So if we use "each", we can't use "one another". We're making the comparison Company X vs All the Others At Once. So cross out C and E. A basically the same.

So that leaves us B and D. B has very awkward placement of "more successfully". The GMAC would call that a bad modifier, which is pretty much a killer

However, D mistakenly switches the terms of the comparison!. The non underlined portion uses "all" and we're using another modifier to parallel that first one, so we should stick with "all". But in D we change to each. So they're all bad, but I suppose D is least bad.

GMATNinja & GMATNinjaTwo Could you share your thought on this SC?
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ziyuen wrote:
hfbamafan wrote:
In a state of pure commercial competition, there would be a large number of producing firms, all unfettered by governmental regulations, all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than each other.

(A) all seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than each other.
(B) all seeking more successfully to meet consumer needs and wants than the others.
(C) each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than one another.
(D) each seeking to meet consumer needs and wants more successfully than the others.
(E) each seeking successfully to meet consumer needs and wants than another


When you're comparing two things directly, you use each other. "These two teams hate each other!" .

When you're comparing MORE THAN two things, you use one another.

In spoken English we have this notion that "one another" is a fancy way of saying "each other", but that isn't true.

So it comes down to how you're making the comparison {A vs B} or {A vs B vs C} all at once. D is the correct one here.

In C, D, E, if we use "each", the comparison becomes singular. Kind of like "each of the students IS here"

So if we use "each", we can't use "one another". We're making the comparison Company X vs All the Others At Once. So cross out C and E. A basically the same.

So that leaves us B and D. B has very awkward placement of "more successfully". The GMAC would call that a bad modifier, which is pretty much a killer

However, D mistakenly switches the terms of the comparison!. The non underlined portion uses "all" and we're using another modifier to parallel that first one, so we should stick with "all". But in D we change to each. So they're all bad, but I suppose D is least bad.

Could you share your thought on this SC?

Dear ziyuen,

I'm happy to respond. :-) My friend, I hope you don't mind my jumping in here.

The switch from "all" to "each" in (D) is 100% correct and perfectly fine. These are two different ways to make general statements about the whole group. It's perfectly natural that some kinds of general statements have a "blanket" quality, addressing the group as a whole, and the word "all" is appropriate, whereas others are individual actions or relationships common to everyone, and so "each" is appropriate. It's 100% OK to switch from "all" to "each" as the nature of the situation or relationship changes.

It would be jarring to switch from general statements to statements about an individual: that sort of shift would require a contrast word.
All the students like the teacher, but Jacob is the only one who buys her gifts.

Does this make sense?
Mike :-)
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