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Re: Opponents of compulsory national service claim that such a program is [#permalink]
rashminet84 wrote:
For #5, unfortunately i could recall that the answer was either E or B, and upon seeing the options i knew i could never have chosen B, and thus I had chosen E earlier. But i strongly felt B was out of scope of the passage.

The question says "based on the passage", and there is absolutely no information in the passage regarding foreign aid - not even something that can help us infer such a thing. Help???


the question means based on whatever has been provided in the passage, the opponents of compulsory national service are most likely to object to which of the following- it is an inference question (even though the question starts with "based on") as it has not been explicitly given what all they would object to.


"Can the opponent of national service truly claim that activities of the military such as quelling civil disorders, rebuilding dams and bridges, or assisting the victims of natural disasters—all extraneous to the defense of society against outside aggression—do not provide a similar benefit to the nation? Upon reflection, opponents of national service must concede that such a broadened conception of what is necessary ...."
=> the opponents of compulsory service cannot claim that such activities are not needed=> they would not object to such activities


A. would not object. of prime importance for the survival of the nation
C, D and E all come within the purview of the activites described in the last para=> the opponents of compulsory national service would not object to such activities

B. is of no benefit to the people of the nation. so opponents would most likely object to it.


(i got it wrong as well, had to re-read to justify the OA)
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Re: Opponents of compulsory national service claim that such a program is [#permalink]
this passage is highly abstract and hard.
the og passages are well structured. this point means the ideas in the passage are well connected and the questions ask about this connection. this passage dose not this tight connection and its questions ask about an idea which is hard to find in the passage.

what I want to say is that the difficulty of this passage is not typical of the og passage.
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Re: Opponents of compulsory national service claim that such a program is [#permalink]
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angierch wrote:
Hi,

Can someone please help explaining question 3, in specific why is option A better than B? To me, they seem very similar.

Thank you!




The difference between A & B :
A: the scope of their individual liberties is limited somewhat by their obligations to one another --> "obligations" include "do" and "don't"
B: they will not act in ways that infringe upon each other’s pursuit of individual liberty ---> it is just a subset of "obligations", a type of "don't"

The clue in the passage talking about "social agreement": "It is only in the context of a community that the notion of individual rights has any application; individual rights are meant to define the limits of people’s actions with respect to other people."
---> Limits of people's actions with respect to other people ~ people's obligation in society

--> B is obviously closer to the author's notion of social agreement
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Re: Opponents of compulsory national service claim that such a program is [#permalink]
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I squeezed my mind with 4th question, still can't understand the answer, which i narrate as follows:
Both national service and taxation serve ends beyond those related to the basic survival of the state

What does it mean by "ends"? What is the basic survival of the state?

Please help me explain them? How can you connect them with the content of passage?

Many thanks,
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Re: Opponents of compulsory national service claim that such a program is [#permalink]
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Hientran48 wrote:
I squeezed my mind with 4th question, still can't understand the answer, which i narrate as follows:
Both national service and taxation serve ends beyond those related to the basic survival of the state

What does it mean by "ends"? What is the basic survival of the state?

Please help me explain them? How can you connect them with the content of passage?

Many thanks,



I hope this is not too late!

Let's see. I connected the answer choice here in the passage:
Quote:
......Even the most conservative of politicians admits that tax money is rightly spent on programs that, while not necessary for the survival of the state, are nevertheless of great benefit to society. Can the opponent of national service truly claim that activities of the military [.....] do not provide a similar benefit to the nation? Upon reflection, opponents of national service must concede that such a broadened conception of what is necessary is in keeping with the ideas of shared sacrifice and community benefit that are essential to the functioning of a liberal democratic state.


What the red marked text is saying? It says that tax money is used beyond the "necessary" things needed for basic survival of the state.
What is blue marked text? This co-relates tax and national service.

A something on interrogative:
When a sentence is turned into interrogative sentence, it is negated. Consider following examples:
1.
Sentence: You Cant Do it.
Interrogative: You Cant do it, can you?
OR
Can you do it?
2.
Sentence: You can do it.
Interrogative: you can do it, can't you?
OR
Can't you do it?


Now the blue colored part is "Can the opponents claim the military activities (national service) do not provide similar (similar to taxation) benefits". can they? This is 1st case from above. So negating the sentence will be: "Opponents cant claim that military activities do not provide similar benefits." Which effectively means that national service provide similar benefits to taxation.
And what benefits? Benefits that are beyond the basic survival! :)

And for the last part: What does ends means? It means the limits of basic survival of state. Both serve beyond what is considered "ends" of the activities needed for basic survival.

Hope I helped :)
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Re: Opponents of compulsory national service claim that such a program is [#permalink]
Nice passage, however long one... took long time to absorb and even for answering questions ...

Question 5 is in the format of gmat questions but OA is little odd...

With the strong wording as 'Based on the information in the passage' one can feel difficulty to think for a hypothetical situation in which ans is not at all mentioned in the entire passage.

I felt its ok to mark question 5 wrong as it shows that one adheres to the rules of RC concept of out of scope answers.

It would be better if we know the source of this question to confirm that weather we need to update our understanding of question 5 like.
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Re: Opponents of compulsory national service claim that such a program is [#permalink]
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~8:30 min
got them all correct, pretty straightforward passage and question sets

a lot of people answered (B), which is incorrect for question 3
The social agreement mentioned throughout the passage focused on how individuals right have limitations
some national services are necessary in order for the society to function properly. (national defense ... etc)
Therefore you should have picked (A)

Answer (B) is the ideal society for classic liberals but the passage is not describing that

3. Which one of the following most accurately characterizes what the author means by the term “social agreement” (line 8)?
(A) an agreement among members of a community that the scope of their individual liberties is limited somewhat by their obligations to one another
(B) an agreement among members of a community that they will not act in ways that infringe upon each other’s pursuit of individual liberty
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Re: Opponents of compulsory national service claim that such a program is [#permalink]
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i dont understand question 4. i think the author says that primarily taxation and national service are analogous because both are shared responsibility of the citizens and can be seen as sacrifice, secondly they are similar because thry serve ends beyond those related to the basic survival of the state.
so the answer should be c.
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Re: Opponents of compulsory national service claim that such a program is [#permalink]
goofytiwari69 wrote:
i dont understand question 4. i think the author says that primarily taxation and national service are analogous because both are shared responsibility of the citizens and can be seen as sacrifice, secondly they are similar because thry serve ends beyond those related to the basic survival of the state.
so the answer should be c.



"...social agreement that undergirds our liberties. it is only in the context of a community that the notion of individual rights has any application;"

all we really need to know here is that social agreement is a term that defines individual rights.

but how exactly is it defined?

"individual rights are meant to define the limits of people's actions with respect to other people."

okay so individual rights "define the limits of people's actions"-- it does not prevent individuals from acting more so than establishing a clear ground of understanding, a common denominator, by which we all must agree to abide by. But for what purpose? for our benefit..
"were no taxes paid, there could be no law enforcement, and the enforcement of law is of benefit to everyone in society."
that was a particular example cited to support the previous sentence---the general principle that is implicit in the social agreement where there is a "concept of shared sacrifice."

even if you do not understand it conceptually, you can use keywords to indicate what the correct answer choice will be.
"social agreement" "only in context of community" "implicit" "shared sacrifice" "benefit of everyone"
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Re: Opponents of compulsory national service claim that such a program is [#permalink]
Hello Experts,

Could you pls help with que 4? I chose B: they are same in that they are against the notion of individual rights. I have been through the comments however I am still not able to wrap my head around the correct answer E: they both are means to an end.

Analogies are presented throughout the passage and as I understand: passage begins with one and ends with another. Author brings in Tax to challenge the notion of individual rights and then ends by explaining: how they are pertinent for a greater goal. (in a manner of speaking).

Could you pls assist?
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Re: Opponents of compulsory national service claim that such a program is [#permalink]
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ap2201 wrote:
Hello Experts,

Could you pls help with que 4? I chose B: they are same in that they are against the notion of individual rights. I have been through the comments however I am still not able to wrap my head around the correct answer E: they both are means to an end.

Analogies are presented throughout the passage and as I understand: passage begins with one and ends with another. Author brings in Tax to challenge the notion of individual rights and then ends by explaining: how they are pertinent for a greater goal. (in a manner of speaking).

Could you pls assist?


This question is easy if you grasp the main idea of the passage. The author’s main point is that compulsory service, like taxation, does not violate the principles of democracy if we expand the definition of “need” to include more than just activities necessary for national survival. (E) summarizes that idea concisely.

While in (B) The author’s point is that they are not at odds with individual rights, that individual rights have application only in the context of the needs of the larger community (lines 9-17).
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