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# A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo

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A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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06 Aug 2006, 11:35
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A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo must have been completed after 1507 but before 1509. It cannot have been painted earlier than 1507 because one of its central figures carries a coin that was not minted until that year. It cannot have been painted after 1509 because it contains a pigment that Michelangelo is known to have abandoned when a cheaper alternative became available in that year.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

A) No stocks of the abandoned pigment existed after 1509.

B) Michelangelo did not work on the painting over the course of several years.

C) The coin depicted in the painting was known to general public in 1507.

D) The wooden panel on which the painting was executed cannot be tested accurately for age.

E) Michelangelo's painting style did not change between 1507 and 1509.
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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13 Mar 2013, 21:48
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2flY wrote:
gmattokyo wrote:
I'll go with A
No stocks of the abandoned pigment existed after 1509.
- Michelangelo abandoned the pigment used to make the paint (not the paint) because cheaper version was available. There is no mention that he stopped using the existing stock. If he has spent a lot making a stock of paint, he'll use that

These were my thoughts. However, this seems to be wrong...

Yes, the reason this option is option (A) is that it is tempting to jump to it right away. But it is incorrect.

The problem here is that the option says 'No stocks existed after 1509'.
We don't need to assume that. Recall that the argument says that Michelangelo stopped using the pigment, not that the pigment was not manufactured after 1509. It is immaterial whether stock of the pigment existed after 1509. We know that Michelangelo abandoned the use of the pigment after 1509.

Look at the argument:
- The painting must have been completed after 1507 but before 1509.
- Not earlier than 1507 because one of its central figures carries a coin that was not minted until that year.
- Not after 1509 because it contains a pigment that Michelangelo is known to have abandoned when a cheaper alternative became available in 1509.

The argument clearly tells us that Michelangelo abandoned the use of the pigment in 1509. Whether he had stocks of it or not, he abandoned its use in 1509. The argument seems pretty good fit except for one thing - it says that the painting must have been COMPLETED within 1507 to 1509. That's the folly of the argument. Based on the premises, we can say for sure that he painted it during this time frame. We cannot say whether he completed it during this time.
He could have painted it over many years which would include the time frame of 1507 - 1509. When we say that he completed it before 1509, we are assuming that he did the painting in a matter of a few weeks or months, not over many years.

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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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14 Apr 2013, 20:59
Similar topics on "A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo" are merged.
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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09 Jul 2013, 14:35
shoonya wrote:
A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo must have been completed after 1507 but before 1509. It cannot have been painted earlier than 1507 because one of its central figures carries a coin that was not minted until that year. It cannot have been painted after 1509 because it contains a pigment that Michelangelo is known to have abandoned when a cheaper alternative became available in that year.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

A) No stocks of the abandoned pigment existed after 1509.

B) Michelangelo did not work on the painting over the course of several years.

C) The coin depicted in the painting was known to general public in 1507.

D) The wooden panel on which the painting was executed cannot be tested accurately for age.

E) Michelangelo's painting style did not change between 1507 and 1509.

HERE IS OE

The conclusion of the argument is that Michelangelo must have completed the painting between 1507 and 1509. The basis for that claim is that the painting depicts a coin that did not exist before 1507 and that it contains a pigment that Michelangelo ceased using in 1509. We are asked to find an assumption that completes the logic of this argument.

Choice A is incorrect. We do not need to assume that no stocks of the pigment existed after 1509. The argument is concerned only with the year in which Michelangelo stopped using the pigment.

Choice B is correct. In order to conclude that the painting must have been completed before 1509 on the basis of the pigment, we must assume that he did not begin the painting before 1509 using the old pigment and complete the painting after 1509 with the new pigment.

Choice C is incorrect. The fact that the general public knew of the coin in 1507 is irrelevant to the conclusion.

Choice D is incorrect. The fact that the panel cannot be tested for age does not relate to either the coin or the pigment, the two bases for the conclusion.

Choice E is incorrect. Whether Michelangelo's painting style changed during this period does not relate to either the coin or the pigment.
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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28 Jul 2013, 00:50
VeritasPrepKarishma wrote:
2flY wrote:
gmattokyo wrote:
I'll go with A
No stocks of the abandoned pigment existed after 1509.
- Michelangelo abandoned the pigment used to make the paint (not the paint) because cheaper version was available. There is no mention that he stopped using the existing stock. If he has spent a lot making a stock of paint, he'll use that

These were my thoughts. However, this seems to be wrong...

Yes, the reason this option is option (A) is that it is tempting to jump to it right away. But it is incorrect.

The problem here is that the option says 'No stocks existed after 1509'.
We don't need to assume that. Recall that the argument says that Michelangelo stopped using the pigment, not that the pigment was not manufactured after 1509. It is immaterial whether stock of the pigment existed after 1509. We know that Michelangelo abandoned the use of the pigment after 1509.

Look at the argument:
- The painting must have been completed after 1507 but before 1509.
- Not earlier than 1507 because one of its central figures carries a coin that was not minted until that year.
- Not after 1509 because it contains a pigment that Michelangelo is known to have abandoned when a cheaper alternative became available in 1509.

The argument clearly tells us that Michelangelo abandoned the use of the pigment in 1509. Whether he had stocks of it or not, he abandoned its use in 1509. The argument seems pretty good fit except for one thing - it says that the painting must have been COMPLETED within 1507 to 1509. That's the folly of the argument. Based on the premises, we can say for sure that he painted it during this time frame. We cannot say whether he completed it during this time.
He could have painted it over many years which would include the time frame of 1507 - 1509. When we say that he completed it before 1509, we are assuming that he did the painting in a matter of a few weeks or months, not over many years.

I could not get why is B the answer...

Michelangelo could have started the painting in 1507, but completed the same b/w 1507 and 1509.

As you stated , "We cannot say whether he completed it during this time.
He could have painted it over many years which would include the time frame of 1507 - 1509. When we say that he completed it before 1509, we are assuming that he did the painting in a matter of a few weeks or months, not over many years. "

Maybe he did the majority of painting b/w 1500 to 1506..=> that can be considered...
and the remaining part of painting was completed b/w 1507 and 1509.

Several years of work on painting(1500-1506), still lies in the argument.
He just completed it b/w 1507 and 1509.
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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28 Jul 2013, 01:09
jaituteja wrote:
I could not get why is B the answer...

Michelangelo could have started the painting in 1507, but completed the same b/w 1507 and 1509.

As you stated , "We cannot say whether he completed it during this time.
He could have painted it over many years which would include the time frame of 1507 - 1509. When we say that he completed it before 1509, we are assuming that he did the painting in a matter of a few weeks or months, not over many years. "

Maybe he did the majority of painting b/w 1500 to 1506..=> that can be considered...
and the remaining part of painting was completed b/w 1507 and 1509.

Several years of work on painting(1500-1506), still lies in the argument.
He just completed it b/w 1507 and 1509.

That's exactly why B is the answer!

What you say here:
"Maybe he did the majority of painting b/w 1500 to 1506..=> that can be considered...
and the remaining part of painting was completed b/w 1507 and 1509."

is correct. Maybe he did all the painting (with his pigment) except the coin between those years, and then just finished between 1507 and 1509.

That's why the assumption, hence something necessary for the argument to be valid, must be B) Michelangelo did not work on the painting over the course of several years. ; so you exclude that possibility and the argument holds true.
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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13 Aug 2013, 10:29
It is incorrect to assume that E is wrong in the first go. Unless you realize you are stuck with B Vs E. Now it boils down to the fact whether M's painting style has bearing on the dates or his habit has bearing on the painting dates. Then the answer is apparent. Even if his painting style changes then does it rules out the fact that he didn't paint between 1507 and 1509. Its 50/50 chances. E is not breaking the argument after negation.
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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09 Oct 2013, 11:35
i still do not understand why A is not correct.
Let's imagine Micky bought huge stocks of old point for 10'000 USD, even is the price of new substitute will become 1000 USD i will not buy it untill i will not consume my old stocks.
What is wrong with A?
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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09 Nov 2013, 03:57
A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo must have been completed after 1507 but before 1509. It cannot have been painted earlier than 1507 because one of its central figures carries a coin that was not minted until that year. It cannot have been painted after 1509 because it contains a pigment that Michelangelo is known to have abandoned when a cheaper alternative became available in that year.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

A) No stocks of the abandoned pigment existed after 1509.

B) Michelangelo did not work on the painting over the course of several years.

C) The coin depicted in the painting was known to general public in 1507.

D) The wooden panel on which the painting was executed cannot be tested accurately for age.

E) Michelangelo's painting style did not change between 1507 and 1509.

I believe that in CR we should look for an assumption that will help us reach the given conclusion BASED on the given premises.

Premise 1: The coin depicted in the painting was not minted before 1507.
Premise 2: There is a pigment used in the paining that MA had abandoned in 1509.
Conclusion: The painting was completed after 1507 but before 1509.

Firstly, it has been mentioned 'painting was completed'. So the possibility that MA may have started before 1507 and finished the paining before 1509 is totally is line with argument.

Lets look at some of the loopholes in the argument :-
1) The painting could have started between 1507 and 1509 but finished after 1509.
2) The painting could have started before 1507 and ended before 1507.
3) The painting could have started after 1509 and ended after 1509.
4) The painting could have started before 1507 and ended after 1509.

Now, an assumption that covers maximum of these loopholes is our correct answer.

Can anybody explain to me how answer B meets the above criteria!?
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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25 Nov 2013, 07:37
For me it was between A and B. About A: we know that MC abandoned the old pigment and started to use a new cheaper substitute. Maybe he had more reasons than merely thinking about the price. If so, the MC could still not use the old pigment even in case he had a stock of it.
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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31 Mar 2014, 14:50
B) Michelangelo did not work on the painting over the course of several years.

Yes B is correct. Say if MA started painting in 1501 and after painting some portion he stopped for few years and then again started painting in 1507 and painted new coin introduced in that year, then definitely argument wont stand true.
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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28 Jun 2015, 10:09
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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06 Jul 2015, 14:34
Real mind boggling question

Initially though A is correct
Then found the mistake in A and thought B is correct
Then found B,C and D all three can be assumptions
Although in terms if this stimulus I was tempted to pick B
But Option C and D are also pointing out real gaps in the argument.

IMO DON'T KNOW WHICH ANSWER CHOICE TO PICK
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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18 Aug 2015, 00:43
Wow loads of discussion going on here, I know its been discussed, but for future readers, lets take another shot
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The choice here is between A and B definitely. But lets discuss all the options here:

A) No stocks of abandoned pigment was left after 1509
Negation: Some stocks of abandoned pigment was left after 1509
Now, we can't doubt the CR passage - What i mean is: it says that M was KNOWN TO HAVE ABANDONED THE PIGMENT. So it is known he abandoned it, whether the stocks remain or not, its not the question.

B) M continued to work on it for several years: So, if M worked on the painting for many years,it means maybe he started prior to 1507, and painted the detailing of the coin only in 1507. Another case is: he abandoned the pigment in 1509 (for sure 100%) but he may have done some other details after 1509 as well.

C) The coin depicted in the painting was known to general public in 1507 - Public knowledge isn't a factor in determining the age of the painting or the date it was painted in.

D) The wooden panel on which the painting was executed cannot be tested accurately for age - would have been true if this method was mentioned in the passage. Clearly its not, so D isnt right for us to consider

E) Michelangelo's painting style did not change between 1507 and 1509 - His painting style changed, but the details are the source of finding the actual date it was painted in. So E is out of scope.

OA = B
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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02 Oct 2015, 09:36
Hi,

I got a new version of this question, which realies on the same assumtion as the problem discussed.

A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo must have been completed between 1507 and 1509. It cannot have been painted earlier than 1507 because one of its central figures carries a coin that was not minted until that year. It cannot have been painted after 1509 because it contains a pigment that Michelangelo is known to have abandoned when a cheaper alternative became available in that year.

The answer to which of the following questions would be most useful in evaluating the argument above?

a) Did any stocks of the abandoned pigment exist after 1509?
b) Did Michelangelo work on the painting over the course of several years?
c) Was the coin depicted in the painting in circulation in 1507?
d) Can the wooden panel on which the painting was executed be tested accurately for age?
e) Did Michelangelo's painting style change significantly between 1507 and 1509?

As in the disscued question, the correct answer is B. However, I do not understand why.

Because the question is about evaluation, the correct answer will be the one that strenghtens/weakens the conclusion. Hence, if we answer YES to "Did any stocks of the abandoned pigment exist after 1509?", than the painting might be done after 1509. In contrast, if we answer NO, then it strenghten the conclusion that the painting was done between the period 1507-1509.

I do not understand, why we have to question if "Michelangelo worked on the painting over the course of several years", beacuse the conclusion already states that the painting must have been completed between 1507 and 1509 (several years).

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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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02 Oct 2015, 20:26
Hello bolasao,
Even if the pigment stocks existed after 1509, it is upto Michaelangelo to decide on using the particular type of pigment. So availability of pigment does not help us in answering the question .
Conclusion is assuming that the painting must have been completed between 1507 and 1509 (several years).If we negate this assumption then the arguments does not hold true.
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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05 Mar 2016, 21:38
is this question from OG 2016 ? i read a reply that it si from MGMAT
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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12 Mar 2016, 20:19
Although the logical answer is B, but I have a question regarding the answer choice D. If the wooden panel could be tested properly then there would be no need to concentrate either on coin or on pigment.Then why option D is not considered??
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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22 Apr 2016, 13:31
I came up with B.

And here is why.

There are 2 Inequalities that you are dealing with here.

1507<Painting<1509

The argument will be negated if the painting is either done before 1507,or after 1509.

Hence Painting Cant be before 1507 and after 1509.

Only one statement as vague it may sounds,but tend to deal with this situation.

All of the others focus too much on either on inequality or the other.
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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09 Jun 2016, 06:39
Option B IS CORRECT
My TAKE-
Conclusion : Michelangelo must have been completed the painting after 1507 but before 1509.
Loop Hole : It might be possible that Michelangelo began using pigment before 1507 and used coin in his painting after 1509.In this scenario premises will still hold but the conclusion will fall apart.
Assumption: Therefore , it is necessary to assume that Michelangelo didn't work on the painting over the course of several years.
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Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink]

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16 Jun 2016, 09:08
Negating B does not seem to weaken the argument.
Re: A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo   [#permalink] 16 Jun 2016, 09:08

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