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Although fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-were f

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Re: Although fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-were f [#permalink]

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New post 13 Jun 2011, 04:29
fluke wrote:
sudhir18n wrote:
subhashghosh wrote:


My take on D;
It says "The naturally occuring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure"
which means the structure was unknown prior to discovery. hence what we were using in lab may /maynot be the right form and structure?
so may be the ones thats found now has doesnt require distinctive remparature and prssure condition.
hence weakens..


I just have one complaint sudhir:
Although fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-were first found in the laboratory, they have since been found in nature, formed in fissures of the rare mineral shungite.

This statement about fullerenes should have been presented in a different way.

Such as,
One type of fullernes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-
OR
scientists after analysis found that these molecules were spherical in structure.

But, it rather presented the information in this way
fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-

Thus, I am to believe that fullerenes will always have spherical structure.

Like saying
water-a substance who molecule contains 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom-

I will believe that All water will have the same structure. Now, someone tells me in Mars, water contains 2atoms of nitrogen and 2 helium. I will say, the earlier fact was not properly conveyed then.

When it is on earth, water -a substance who molecule contains 2 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen atom-

You see where my confusion is.


Yes I agree with you.. not a very well written arguement !!
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Re: Although fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-were f [#permalink]

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New post 30 Jul 2011, 11:49
Tough question
This might sound bit out of scope but molecular formula and crystalline structure are two different things. Two substances with same molecular formula but different crystalline structure exhibit different properties and hence are not same. That is what this questions implies over here.
I just wonder how many can actually think this much on the gmat day.
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Re: Although fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-were f [#permalink]

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New post 14 Aug 2011, 15:46
Notice the premise talks about the synthesis of fullerenes in lab with known structure, and the conclusion talks about the evaluation of hypothesis on the basis of fullerenes formation in nature. The argument is inherently weak. In this case, information regarding the temp and pressure of naturally forming fullerenes needs to be known, hence the author assumes similar structure of molecules in both cases.
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Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of carbon - were first found in the laboratory, they have since been found in nature, formed in fissures of the rare mineral shungite. Since laboratory synthesis of fullerenes requires distinctive conditions of temperature and pressure, this discovery should give geologists a test case for evaluating hypothesis about the state of the Earth's crust at the time these naturally occurring fullerenes were formed.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?

a) Confirming that the shungite genuinely contained fullerenes took careful experimentation

b) Some fullerenes have also been found on the remains of a small meteorite that collided with a spacecraft.

c) The mineral shungite itself contains large amounts of carbon, from which the fullerenes apparently formed.

d) The naturally occurring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure

e) Shungite itself is formed only under distinctive conditions.



OA is d. Is there anybody who can explain why the answer is d ? I literally cannot understand this question.
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Re: fullerene [#permalink]

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[quote="eybrj2"]Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of carbon - were first found in the laboratory, they have since been found in nature, formed in fissures of the rare mineral shungite. Since laboratory synthesis of fullerenes requires distinctive conditions of temperature and pressure, this discovery should give geologists a test case for evaluating hypothesis about the state of the Earth's crust (CONCLUSION)at the time these naturally occurring fullerenes were formed.

any statemet that proves that the temperature and pressure conditions MIGHT NOT BE SAME for the naturally occurng and lab versions of fullerene will be the correct answer.

a) Confirming that the shungite genuinely contained fullerenes took careful experimentation so? at the end it was confirmed tht it was fullerene. doesnt affect conclusion
b) Some fullerenes have also been found on the remains of a small meteorite that collided with a spacecraft. The qs is about finding conditions on eart's crust, not metiorites. It specifically mentioned tht the fullerens were FORMED on the mineral rocks
c) The mineral shungite itself contains large amounts of carbon, from which the fullerenes apparently formed. doesnt make any difference to the conclusion
d) The naturally occurring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure CORRECT THE CRYSTALLINE STRUCTURES ARE DIFFERENT...THEREFOR THE PRESSURE TEMPERATURE CONDITIONS COULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT
e) Shungite itself is formed only under distinctive conditions.
. doesnt make any difference to the conclusion


Truthfully speaking...I dont think its a fair qs..... I had the preknowledge that crystal structure formation is directly responsible on the temp/pressure conditions...and different conditions may result in different structures. A person not knowing this might have difficulty in solving this problem.
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Re: fullerene [#permalink]

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New post 30 Nov 2011, 23:28
A was found in laboratory first then in nature as well. Premise: Since A needs specific temperature and pressure, it will help explain hypothesis about nature.

A) The fact that A was in nature as well was thoroughly verified--- out of scope
B) A was found in meteorite as well- out of scope
C) A was formed from B --out of scope
D) A in nature is different than A in laboratory - the correct one
E) A needs special circumstances to form- put of scope


Hope it helps
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Re: fullerene [#permalink]

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New post 30 Nov 2011, 23:34
this one is super tricky-this is the 2nd time i m seeing this prob n getting ti worng
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Re: fullerene [#permalink]

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New post 03 Dec 2011, 03:45
+1 for choice D
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Re: Although fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-were f [#permalink]

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New post 10 Jan 2012, 06:31
bigfernhead wrote:
Although fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-were first found in the laboratory, they have since been found in nature, formed in fissures of the rare mineral shungite. Since laboratory synthesis of fullerenes requires distinctive conditions of temperature and pressure, this discovery should give geologists a test case for evaluating hypothesis about the state of the Earth's crust at the time these naturally occuring fullerenes were formed.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?
A) Confirming that the shungite genuinely contained fullerenes took careful experimentation.
B) Some fullerenes have also been found on the remains of a small meteorite that collided with a spacecraft.
C) The mineral shungite itself contains large amounts of carbon, from which the fullerenes apparently formed.
D) The naturally occuring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure.
E) Shungite itself is formed only under distinctive conditions


I have seen that OA is D.
The formation of the molecule need not just depend on Temp and Pressure.
Given the same Temp and Pressure, with different humidity or acidity in the air the structure of the molecule could change.
So just by saying you have an unknown crystalline structure cannot undermine the fact that the two processes could have happened at the same Temp and Pressure.

Whereas B, gives a new perspective on the issue telling, fullerenes are also found on outer space.
This clearly points out that there could be an unknown factor in the creation of fullerene molecules. If I personalize the argument and think in the view point of a scientist, then B seriously weakens the situation.
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Re: Although fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-were f [#permalink]

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New post 24 Jan 2012, 19:27
this is indeed a tough one, I guessed it also wrong. After I read the explanation, it seems quite obvious.
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Re: Although fullerenes-spherical molecules made entirely of carbon-were f [#permalink]

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New post 27 Jan 2012, 17:24
Really hope that I wont see this kind of question on test day
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Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of carbon - were first found in the laboratory, they have since been found in nature, formed in fissures of the rare mineral shungite. Since laboratory synthesis of fullerenes requires distinctive conditions of temperature and pressure, this discovery should give geologists a test case for evaluating hypothesis about the state of the Earth's crust at the time these naturally occurring fullerenes were formed. Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?

A. Confirming that the shungite genuinely contained fullerenes took careful experimentation
B. Some fullerenes have also been found on the remains of a small meteorite that collided with a spacecraft.
C. The mineral shungite itself contains large amounts of carbon, from which the fullerenes apparently formed.
D. The naturally occurring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure
E. Shungite itself is formed only under distinctive conditions.
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Last edited by Zarrolou on 10 May 2013, 07:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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shikhar wrote:
Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of carbon - were first found in the laboratory, they have since been found in nature, formed in fissures of the rare mineral shungite. Since laboratory synthesis of fullerenes requires distinctive conditions of temperature and pressure, this discovery should give geologists a test case for evaluating hypothesis about the state of the Earth's crust at the time these naturally occurring fullerenes were formed. Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?

A. Confirming that the shungite genuinely contained fullerenes took careful experimentation
B. Some fullerenes have also been found on the remains of a small meteorite that collided with a spacecraft.
C. The mineral shungite itself contains large amounts of carbon, from which the fullerenes apparently formed.
D. The naturally occurring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure
E. Shungite itself is formed only under distinctive conditions.


Its D as the structure present in lab is different from the previous one and hence the conclusion is weakened
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 17 Apr 2012, 02:52
what does the word previously means here ??
I thought it meant that the structure was not known earlier but now its known...
if i remove previously form option D it is clearly the answer.

Please clarify ...
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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shikhar wrote:
what does the word previously means here ??
I thought it meant that the structure was not known earlier but now its known...
if i remove previously form option D it is clearly the answer.

Please clarify ...


Basically the thing is :
F found in lab first then in nature, as they can be synthesized in lab argument concludes that okay it is possible to know something about the earth's state when these naturally occurring F were found. But what about if geologists dont know there structure prior to the point when discovery was made then its useless having F in lab. Because its no concrete source to make the conclusion.

Previously Unknown means before the discovery nothing about the structure is known. Hence if nothing is known till that point we cant say anything regarding the conclusion and hence conclusion stands is weakened.

Hope this helps..!!
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 17 Apr 2012, 14:11
Hm I had guessed E, but I see why that's wrong, since the paragraph itself says that the synthesis requires distinctive conditions, hence it cannot be the answer.

D makes sense now.

OA?
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 18 Apr 2012, 02:24
I also agree with the choice D, and the explanation of the guys above is enough for this question. Nice question. Thank all guys
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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shikhar wrote:
Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of carbon - were first found in the laboratory, they have since been found in nature, formed in fissures of the rare mineral shungite. Since laboratory synthesis of fullerenes requires distinctive conditions of temperature and pressure, this discovery should give geologists a test case for evaluating hypothesis about the state of the Earth's crust at the time these naturally occurring fullerenes were formed. Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?

A. Confirming that the shungite genuinely contained fullerenes took careful experimentation
B. Some fullerenes have also been found on the remains of a small meteorite that collided with a spacecraft.
C. The mineral shungite itself contains large amounts of carbon, from which the fullerenes apparently formed.
D. The naturally occurring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure
E. Shungite itself is formed only under distinctive conditions.


Why can't the answer be B? The very fact that a meteorite also contained F implies that a similar meteorite could have collided with Earth and caused F to be inducted into Earth's crust artificially. So, studying this might not necessarily tell anything about Earth !!!
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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New post 17 May 2012, 21:06
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I can't understand either of options (except C, but that with a long shot) weakening the conclusion.

Argument says : Because F could be formed in Lab in distinctive conditions (of temperature and pressure), We should be able to evaluate earth crust's conditions as well at the time of these Fs formed naturally. So, It's essentially assuming F can be formed in a specific set of conditions.

Let's evaluate Options :
A. Confirming that the shungite genuinely contained fullerenes took careful experimentation
=> Not Related - No Impact

B. Some fullerenes have also been found on the remains of a small meteorite that collided with a spacecraft.
=> Even if some were found in a small meteorite, it doesn't impact the argument. Because that small meteorite may also have similar conditions as Lab had when F were formed.

C. The mineral shungite itself contains large amounts of carbon, from which the fullerenes apparently formed.
=> This makes a little sense for me because it gives an alternative reason to believe why F formed naturally had something special (large amount of carbon) which may not be there in the lab. So we might be able to say those conditions in which F formed may not be same/ similar in Lab and earth-crust.

D. The naturally occurring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure
=> Even if naturally occurring F are in crystalline structure unknown earlier, it is know now. And it doesn't give me any reason to say naturally occurring F would have different structure than the structure of Lab-formed F.
I can't understand how it would weaken the argument

E. Shungite itself is formed only under distinctive conditions.
=> Already stated a s part of premise, so essentially it's strengthening the argument, not weakening.

I'd appreciate expert views on this.
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Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of [#permalink]

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paragkan wrote:
shikhar wrote:
Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of carbon - were first found in the laboratory, they have since been found in nature, formed in fissures of the rare mineral shungite. Since laboratory synthesis of fullerenes requires distinctive conditions of temperature and pressure, this discovery should give geologists a test case for evaluating hypothesis about the state of the Earth's crust at the time these naturally occurring fullerenes were formed. Which of the following, if true, most seriously undermines the argument?

A. Confirming that the shungite genuinely contained fullerenes took careful experimentation
B. Some fullerenes have also been found on the remains of a small meteorite that collided with a spacecraft.
C. The mineral shungite itself contains large amounts of carbon, from which the fullerenes apparently formed.
D. The naturally occurring fullerenes are arranged in a previously unknown crystalline structure
E. Shungite itself is formed only under distinctive conditions.


Why can't the answer be B? The very fact that a meteorite also contained F implies that a similar meteorite could have collided with Earth and caused F to be inducted into Earth's crust artificially. So, studying this might not necessarily tell anything about Earth !!!



paragkan,

You are right that B does weaken too. But between B and D - D is a better answer because it "most seriously" undermines the argument.
B weakens a little bit because if F is found on a small meteorite from outer space, it's possible that the F in shungite is not "natural" and actually came from outer space instead. If that is the case, then we can't get a good idea of the Earth's crust at the time of formation - because that formation happened in outer space. Thus, the argument isn't valid anymore.
BUT, we don't know for SURE whether the F in shungite came from outer space so we can't necessarily say the argument is not valid. It's just that it *might* be invalid if the F is coming from outer space.
Re: Although fullerenes - spherical molecules made entirely of   [#permalink] 17 May 2012, 22:50

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