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Re: Per a recent survey carried out in Rambo City, capital of Papula count [#permalink]
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Sukant2010 wrote:
I just wanted to confirm if such type of ambiguous questions do appear in GMAT as well??
As the questions I have seen in the OG and other GMAT official sources, options which require too vague assumptions (obv if it is not an assumption question), are rare. The OA of this question is also of similar type.
In fact, I have read from different sources(manhattan cr strategy guide) that weakening type questions should not have any additional evidence to ans. The option should just weaken either the conclusion or the assumption of the argument.
Please if any expert could clear it.
Thanks in advance....


Hi Sukant,

Thank you for posting this query.

I think how we define something "vague" is actually vague itself. I suggest that you look at the official question (OG13 Q94) and the discussion around this in the below thread:

as-a-construction-material-bamboo-is-as-strong-as-steel-and-135997.html

The correct option in the above question requires you to understand/assume where multistory buildings will be required most. If we say this is vague assumption or additional information required to make this option correct, then essentially we are going against the official question.

Regarding what you read in Manhattan or other guides, I am not sure what you mean when you say it should require additional evidence. A correct weakening choice is an additional evidence (i.e. in addition to the argument) that weakens your belief in the conclusion. Now, if you think (I am just guessing) that a correct choice should not bring rely on new information to make it correct, then look at below official question:

twenty-years-ago-balzania-put-in-place-regulations-130755.html

The correct option is C, which relies on information after "because" in the option statement. So, the first part of option C will not explain the paradox unless we know the part after "because". So, the option gives you two pieces of information which complement each other to explain the paradox and hence make the choice correct.

Let me know if you still have questions.

Thanks,
Chiranjeev
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Re: Per a recent survey carried out in Rambo City, capital of Papula count [#permalink]
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Hi Chiranjeev,
Thanx for ur response. As I said, I have seen very rare such questions. But in the example question you have given, the ans is a little bit clear as there is no other option actually targeting any disadvantage of bamboos over steel and concrete. In fact, in the question all the options assumed something or other and finally, I could easily mark option (b) because of the above said reason. In the current question being discussed, I can clearly see from option (a) that if there are people who won't spend any money when they actually required to, how can govt get the funds or how can govt provide these subsidized electric cars.
U are right that sometimes, we have to assume something to get the right answer, but in this question from option (a), I can explicitly tell that govt won't be able to do so if people aren't willing any more to buy even if they have told the opposite in the surveys. I actually donot have to assume anything. This is quite clear.
But in option (c), firstly, I have to assume that electric cars are more convenient that gasoline cars ( hell of an assumption, considering the fact that 'convenience' word is not even used once during the passage). I say I am an expert and gasoline cars are more convenient than electric cars. Then, option (c) cant be the answer. This was actually what I meant by saying 'vague' assumptions because we are taking too far fetched information to prove a point.
The only concern for govt is funds and an interested market; option (a) destroys the second point (interested market). Govt cannot sell cars if they donot get an interested market. From option (c), we are also (though by taking such assumptions) attacking the second point (an interested market), but via option (a) we donot have to assume anything that is far beyond the scope of the passage.
You can check all examples of OG as well in which assumptions are being taken in the options, but there will be explicit assumptions such as the one you showed. Never will there be any question in which an option explicitly answers the question and an option which answers by assuming way too much.
I think I have made my point. Please correct me wherever I am wrong...
Thanks in advance!!!! :-D :-D
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Re: Per a recent survey carried out in Rambo City, capital of Papula count [#permalink]
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Sukant2010 wrote:
Hi Chiranjeev,
Thanx for ur response. As I said, I have seen very rare such questions. But in the example question you have given, the ans is a little bit clear as there is no other option actually targeting any disadvantage of bamboos over steel and concrete. In fact, in the question all the options assumed something or other and finally, I could easily mark option (b) because of the above said reason. In the current question being discussed, I can clearly see from option (a) that if there are people who won't spend any money when they actually required to, how can govt get the funds or how can govt provide these subsidized electric cars.
U are right that sometimes, we have to assume something to get the right answer, but in this question from option (a), I can explicitly tell that govt won't be able to do so if people aren't willing any more to buy even if they have told the opposite in the surveys. I actually donot have to assume anything. This is quite clear.
But in option (c), firstly, I have to assume that electric cars are more convenient that gasoline cars ( hell of an assumption, considering the fact that 'convenience' word is not even used once during the passage). I say I am an expert and gasoline cars are more convenient than electric cars. Then, option (c) cant be the answer. This was actually what I meant by saying 'vague' assumptions because we are taking too far fetched information to prove a point.
The only concern for govt is funds and an interested market; option (a) destroys the second point (interested market). Govt cannot sell cars if they donot get an interested market. From option (c), we are also (though by taking such assumptions) attacking the second point (an interested market), but via option (a) we donot have to assume anything that is far beyond the scope of the passage.
You can check all examples of OG as well in which assumptions are being taken in the options, but there will be explicit assumptions such as the one you showed. Never will there be any question in which an option explicitly answers the question and an option which answers by assuming way too much.
I think I have made my point. Please correct me wherever I am wrong...
Thanks in advance!!!! :-D :-D


Hi Sukant,

I see that you have some good understanding of the official questions. Let me put here two points to explain my case: one in favor of option C and one against option A.

1. In option C, even if you ignore "convenience" part, there is one more information embedded in option C as I explain in my detailed solution. Option C also says that people near retirement age constitute more than 50% of the population. Now, we know from the argument that the government's plan relies on a survey of middle-aged people.

Option C suggests that the government's plan might not work for a majority of population (unless you assume that the priorities of both the categories of people are same).

In other words, option C suggests that the surveyed people are actually not representative of the population. Now, since the argument relies on the survey results, the argument is weakened by option C. Actually, some official questions are actually built around this idea of representative sample. You can refer to my article on Representative Samples:

article-representative-sample-a-concept-tested-in-gmat-cr-158832.html

2. The problem with option A is "some". It suggests that some people will not switch to electric cars. Right?

Now, an important point to consider here is that does the argument require all people to switch for the plan to be successful. The answer is No.

Even if 10% of the people don't switch, the plan will very likely to succeed.

This plan is going to affect the population of the whole country. It is rather expected that there would be some people who will not switch. The plan does not rely on or expect all people to switch.

Just because we know some people will not switch, our belief in the plan does not go down.

On the other hand, if option A had suggested 50% of the people will not switch, then it might be correct.

I hope it helps.

Thanks,
Chiranjeev
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Re: Per a recent survey carried out in Rambo City, capital of Papula count [#permalink]
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jaituteja wrote:
egmat wrote:
Please use the poll above. We will post the OA on Tuesday.

Per a recent survey carried out in Rambo City, capital of Papula country, an average middle-aged person drives his or her car for two thousand miles in a year and 99% of these people own a gasoline-run car. In addition, the survey suggested that if offered an economical option to switch to electric cars, most of these people would change their gasoline-run cars. The government of Papula is impressed with the environmental considerations shown by the citizens of Papula and is planning to implement a plan that would allow all the current owners of gasoline-run cars to switch to electric cars at a minimal cost.


Which of the following statements casts the most doubt on the ability of the plan to meet its required objective of significantly reducing air pollution in Papula in the next 5 years?



A. Though some of the citizens are concerned about the negative environmental impact of air pollution, they will not spend any extra money to protect the environment.
B. The budget deficit of the government of Papula is already at alarming levels, and any further increase in the deficit could lead to the bankruptcy of the country.
C. Since Papula is an aging country, with more than half its population near retirement age, the chief consideration for a large number of its citizens is the convenience to drive rather than the costs to do so.
D. In the last two decades, Papula has emerged as a major economic hub, leading to an increase in the living standard of its citizens and in the number of cars in the region.
E. Since people who don’t own gasoline cars would not be benefitted from the proposed plan, they may strongly oppose the use of taxpayer money on such a plan.



Hi e-gmat,

I agree with your explanations for C.

I chose option D, since it states that there will be an increase in number of cars in the region(has emearged ---> leading to)

Now, the arguments states that "The government is planning to implement a plan that would allow all the current owners of gasoline-run cars to switch to electric cars at a minimal cost."

Since, it mentions that the plan allows only for current owners, we cannot say that the new cars(increase in number of cars) will be the electric cars and not the gasoline-cars.

Please throw some light..



Hello,

Option D does not deal with the ability of the plan to reach the required objective here too.

The plan is to allow all the current owners of gasoline-run cars to switch to electric cars at a minimal cost.
The required objective is to significantly reduce air pollution in the upcoming five years.

Option D talks about the last two decades and the increase in the number of cars in the region during that period.
So, the current number of cars is this increased number.

Hope this clarifies the case!
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Re: Per a recent survey carried out in Rambo City, capital of Papula count [#permalink]
I believe the contest is between B & C. Because A mentions "some people" while B & C are making us assume whether the plan is going to cause deficit (as in B) or driving an electric vehicle is not as convenient (as in C).
I went for B because C was more assumptive.
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Re: Per a recent survey carried out in Rambo City, capital of Papula count [#permalink]
egmat wrote:
Hi Aditya8062,

I would just make a quick reply. I apologize in advance if it doesn’t resolve your queries.

aditya8062 wrote:
To egmat : u got me wrong . i never said that u cannot make assumption in weakener and strengthner questions
Here’s how you started your reasoning in the last post:
aditya8062 wrote:
i guess this argument has been poorly formulated : the options C has to make some assumptions before it is credited as answer
Actually, I could only infer from this that you think that any choice which makes assumptions is a poor choice. That’s why I started my post that way. I am sorry if I was wrong in my interpretation.


aditya8062 wrote:
u can make but only when u running too close with answer choices .plus those assumptions cant be just anything :for instance in ur question the convenience factor can have lot of ramifications
.plz read what i wrote abt convenience factor in my previous post
Go through this OG question. It might help:
https://gmatclub.com/forum/paper-print-i ... 65446.html


aditya8062 wrote:
The question that u have quoted from gmat prep i don't think we need any assumption there for choice D for the simple reason that all the rest of the choice are too bad !! plus if i need to raise 100 $ then a defict of 20 $ is going to hurt me thats the reason it casts most doubt coz all other choice are not leading anywhere
I have given explanations to support why those assumptions are needed in the gmat prep question. Request you to have a relook at them.


aditya8062 wrote:
even the choice E that u talking of isn't valid simply because raising an objection to a plan doesn't mean ,by any stretch of imagination,that plan will not get implemented
moreover ur reasoning for equating option B of ur question to option E of this gmat prep question isn't valid either .for the simple reason that option B is explaining the economics as why plan is so difficult to implement .if u r on the brink of economic crisis (as stated by B ) then it is attacking ur plan .after all what u plan was doing ? it was providing some economical option !! from where will it raise that money ....?thats what B raises .plz note that unlike option E(of prep) option B (ur quesiton) isn't just an objection raised by somebody !!
Please have a relook at the passage. It doesn’t say that implementing the plan will cause economic burden on the government. It doesn't even talk about government subsidy.


aditya8062 wrote:
i again say :u can make assumptions in weakener and strengthener choices of gmat cr but only under certain condition and mostly we need to avoid such assumptions in answer choices and they sud be able to stand of their own
I have to disagree here. In almost every weaken question, you’ll need to make assumptions. You just can’t avoid them in most of the cases. Have a look at the question in the link posted above.

I think your doubts are very interesting and valid but I am sorry I cannot make a detailed post at this point in time.

Thanks,
Chiranjeev


Hi,
From what i know, Weakner's purpose is not to necessarily break the conclusion, instead it needs to create a doubt. Assumptions are the one's which make or break the conclusion. And you can't deny this fact, as in Egmat course, this exact statement is stated and told so many times in so many questions.
Moving on, Choice A creates that doubt. But Choice C, how do i know which car is "convenient to drive".
You can argue that again this option also Creates the doubt if electric is less convenient, but this is the thing right that we DON't know which is convenient to drive.
But in A, it says SOME won't switch, so there is our weakener.
egmat
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Re: Per a recent survey carried out in Rambo City, capital of Papula count [#permalink]
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