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Re: GMAC is trying to turn GMAT into GRE? [#permalink]
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Interesting but I don't find it useful at all I personally just want the test to be shorter . Thank you for the :) information

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It's more or less crazy AF. I am not sure how it will help students, since we do have a time barrier. Rethinking the previous question will consume excess time and juggling to and fro is only harmful to test-takers. God knows what's happening.

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They did a similar survey a few years ago.

The GMAT is better suited for business school admissions than the GRE with a more rigorous quant section and verbal questions that require more sophisticated use of logic and less rote memorization of vocabulary. So, GMAC should improve their customer service and market the GMAT as the better test.
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Re: GMAC is trying to turn GMAT into GRE? [#permalink]
I agree with Mike here , GMAC should first work on improving its existing system and make it more approachable and not rather be wasting money and time on such surveys which hold no good to any one i.e. both the test taker and B school ...

though I do not expect but there can be a time soon when all B schools would start having there own admission test exams than relying on GMAC tests if they keep doing such surveys ..
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GmatTutorKnight wrote:
Interesting conversation. Probably fair to say it would be a bigger change than allowing a person to choose their section order or the addition of the IR component.


It seems like it definitely would. The section order was an interesting change. I guess give more control to the test taker which is probably useful, at least psychologically or mentally. It seems this would be a bigger change and a significant use of resources. Since everything is limited in this world, any resources spent on this automatically not spent on some thing actually useful

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Thank you Marty. I should add to my first post that it is good when people and organizations are seeking to improve the product. I think it’s good to do research and surveys and to some extent change has been good for the GMAT. Things such as section order, enhanced score reports, shorter formats, ability to cancel scores. All these changes have been made in the last seven years. They were all positive….

We did have some negative things happen as well such as changes to the cancellation policy, introduction of the lifetime limit on tests taken, and shorter breaks with elimination of one of the breaks. These changes were not helpful.

Add the same time, there is some value to looking around, evaluating and thinking about your product. I just wish it was directed towards more pertinent issues that you also brought up such as customer care.


MartyTargetTestPrep wrote:
They did a similar survey a few years ago.

The GMAT is better suited for business school admissions than the GRE with a more rigorous quant section and verbal questions that require more sophisticated use of logic and less rote memorization of vocabulary. So, GMAC should improve their customer service and market the GMAT as the better test.


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bb wrote:
Thank you Marty. I should add to my first post that it is good when people and organizations are seeking to improve the product. I think it’s good to do research and surveys and to some extent change has been good for the GMAT. Things such as section order, enhanced score reports, shorter formats, ability to cancel scores. All these changes have been made in the last seven years. They were all positive….

We did have some negative things happen as well such as changes to the cancellation policy, introduction of the lifetime limit on tests taken, and shorter breaks with elimination of one of the breaks. These changes were not helpful.

Add the same time, there is some value to looking around, evaluating and thinking about your product. I just wish it was directed towards more pertinent issues that you also brought up such as customer care.

bb, I appreciate your thoughtful response. That all makes sense to me as well.
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Re: GMAC is trying to turn GMAT into GRE? [#permalink]
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Every single change, no one excluded, in MY view is literally smoke in your eyes or , for me, would be better smoke on the water :lol: :lol:

However, the third one is probably the top

Quote:
The Magical Question Pocket!
Yes! Thank you - we are all saved. Forget about studying and throw away your books because now we will have a question pocket. (this was factiousness so please go pick those books up and fish them out of the dumpster). This option would allow a student to place 1! (one - you read it correctly, as in Uno, Single, Alone, less than 2) question into a pocket and then the test taker can come back to this "Pocket" to attempt this question later. And since you can only place one question into a pocket, you have to first deal with any existing 1 question in that pocket before you can put another one in


It was even for the

Quote:
as in Uno


:) :)

pure genius........... :cool:
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bb wrote:
This option would allow a student to place 1! (one - you read it correctly, as in Uno, Single, Alone, less than 2) question into a pocket and then the test taker can come back to this "Pocket" to attempt this question later. And since you can only place one question into a pocket, you have to first deal with any existing 1 question in that pocket before you can put another one in

Hi bb,

It seems that the total number is 4, not 1.
Quote:
The total number of questions that can be held in the pocket at any one time is limited to four.
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🤦‍♂️ You right! It is all a magic number 4 … It is ironic I made a big deal about it. It is better if it is 4 questions... not sure how much but better. Somehow I missed the fact that it is 4. I have updated the first post. Thank you for pointing out the part I missed! :thumbsup:

I wonder if that is the number of the experimental questions on the test… why do you think it is 4?


AjiteshArun wrote:
bb wrote:
This option would allow a student to place 1! (one - you read it correctly, as in Uno, Single, Alone, less than 2) question into a pocket and then the test taker can come back to this "Pocket" to attempt this question later. And since you can only place one question into a pocket, you have to first deal with any existing 1 question in that pocket before you can put another one in

Hi bb,

It seems that the total number is 4, not 1.
Quote:
The total number of questions that can be held in the pocket at any one time is limited to four.


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bb wrote:
I wonder if that is the number of the experimental questions on the test… why do you think it is 4?

No, this has nothing to do with the experimental questions, which, by definition, cannot be used in the scoring process.

I guess they want to provide test takers as much flexibility as they can while limiting the damage the new system (if it is introduced) will do to the ability of the algorithm to generate a reliable score. For example, we all know what will happen if GMAC allows test takers to change their responses to all the questions: test takers will try to get every question wrong so that they'll get easy questions, and then they'll go back and mark all the correct answers. :)

It'll be interesting to see how far they take this. Meanwhile, I'll continue hoping for an all-IR GMAT...
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Allow me to expand, perhaps completely theoretically and without any value but I will nevertheless:

I understand your point about not using experimental questions for scoring, I mean that's what those questions are :cool: so totally agree with you. What I meant to say was this: My thinking is that modifications that will have to be made to the scoring algorithm will be significant for something like this (e.g. allowing to change answers on a number of questions) and for some reason the number 4 was chosen. It does not seem to be a logical number (at least to me - I would have picked 3) and there has to be a reason why 4 is chosen. Maybe it is totally random and they just picked 4 and perhaps I am giving too much credit to the GMAC product manager but my guess is that the number 4 has something to do with the algorithm where GMAC can adjust it easier, if it is 4 without breaking the whole scoring system. I know this is a far-reaching inference that would not fly on the GMAT but, stay with me - that tells me that maybe... just maybe 4 has a role in the algorithm and hence I am wondering if there are 4 experimental questions on the test (it is possible this is just a coincidence and there are reasons to have 4 but this is the only connection I was able to make).

So there you go :angel:

AjiteshArun wrote:
bb wrote:
I wonder if that is the number of the experimental questions on the test… why do you think it is 4?

No, this has nothing to do with the experimental questions, which, by definition, cannot be used in the scoring process.

I guess they want to provide test takers as much flexibility as they can while limiting the damage the new system (if it is introduced) will do to the ability of the algorithm to generate a reliable score. For example, we all know what will happen if GMAC allows test takers to change their responses to all the questions: test takers will try to get every question wrong so that they'll get easy questions, and then they'll go back and mark all the correct answers. :)

It'll be interesting to see how far they take this. Meanwhile, I'll continue hoping for an all-IR GMAT...
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bb wrote:
Allow me to expand, perhaps completely theoretically and without any value but I will nevertheless:

I understand your point about not using experimental questions for scoring, I mean that's what those questions are :cool: so totally agree with you. What I meant to say was this: My thinking is that modifications that will have to be made to the scoring algorithm will be significant for something like this (e.g. allowing to change answers on a number of questions) and for some reason the number 4 was chosen. It does not seem to be a logical number (at least to me - I would have picked 3) and there has to be a reason why 4 is chosen. Maybe it is totally random and they just picked 4 and perhaps I am giving too much credit to the GMAC product manager but my guess is that the number 4 has something to do with the algorithm where GMAC can adjust it easier, if it is 4 without breaking the whole scoring system. I know this is a far-reaching inference that would not fly on the GMAT but, stay with me - that tells me that maybe... just maybe 4 has a role in the algorithm and hence I am wondering if there are 4 experimental questions on the test (it is possible this is just a coincidence and there are reasons to have 4 but this is the only connection I was able to make).

So there you go :angel:

Analysis of accuracy percentages on ESRs indicates that there are 28 scored quant questions and 30 scored verbal questions. So, there are 3 experimental questions in quant and 6 in verbal.

In case you're curious, the math used to arrive at these numbers is laid out in the second section of the following post with supporting ESR examples. What are Experimental Questions in the GMAT?
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Thank you Marty. I thought we had some indicators from the enhanced score reports but I didn’t realize we have actually been able to exactly identify the number of questions. That’s awesome! 👍
I’ll definitely take a look at the post. Kudos for the effort and d dictation!

PS. And thanks for popping my bubble 😂. I felt pretty good about myself and my theory… but why is it 4 …


MartyTargetTestPrep wrote:
bb wrote:
Allow me to expand, perhaps completely theoretically and without any value but I will nevertheless:

I understand your point about not using experimental questions for scoring, I mean that's what those questions are :cool: so totally agree with you. What I meant to say was this: My thinking is that modifications that will have to be made to the scoring algorithm will be significant for something like this (e.g. allowing to change answers on a number of questions) and for some reason the number 4 was chosen. It does not seem to be a logical number (at least to me - I would have picked 3) and there has to be a reason why 4 is chosen. Maybe it is totally random and they just picked 4 and perhaps I am giving too much credit to the GMAC product manager but my guess is that the number 4 has something to do with the algorithm where GMAC can adjust it easier, if it is 4 without breaking the whole scoring system. I know this is a far-reaching inference that would not fly on the GMAT but, stay with me - that tells me that maybe... just maybe 4 has a role in the algorithm and hence I am wondering if there are 4 experimental questions on the test (it is possible this is just a coincidence and there are reasons to have 4 but this is the only connection I was able to make).

So there you go :angel:

Analysis of accuracy percentages on ESRs indicates that there are 28 scored quant questions and 30 scored verbal questions. So, there are 3 experimental questions in quant and 6 in verbal.

In case you're curious, the math used to arrive at these numbers is laid out in the second section of the following post with supporting ESR examples. What are Experimental Questions in the GMAT?


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Re: GMAC is trying to turn GMAT into GRE? [#permalink]
When deciding to include the IR, I don't think GMAC asked for student feedback. Makes one wonder if they aren't as sure to go ahead with some of these changes.
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