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Manhattan Quant Algorithm vs The Real GMAT Algorithm

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OsmosisJ
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Manhattan Quant Algorithm vs The Real GMAT Algorithm [#permalink] New post   24 Jul 2016, 08:22
Hi guys,

I have been a fan of this forum for a while, appreciate all the helpful guidance that has been provided.

I have been going crazy on GMAT quant for the past month and hit a major wall today after my fourth MGMAT CAT. I was shocked to see that my Quant score had not progressed from the first CAT I took last month after a fair amount of study. I decided to do a deeper analysis on my results - thankfully it looks as though I have progressed as per the table below based on the increase in the difficulty of the questions:

CAT 1 (Q. 39)
Score Range
300 - 400
400 - 500
500 - 600 (11 out of 14 correct, 78%)
600 - 700 (6 out of 17 correct, 35%)
700 - 800 (1 out of 16 correct, 16%)

CAT 2 (Q. 37)
Score Range
300 - 400
400 - 500
500 - 600 (10 out of 14 correct, 72%)
600 - 700 (7 out of 21 correct, 33%)
700 - 800 (0 out of 2 correct, 0%)

CAT 3 (Q. 43)
Score Range
300 - 400 (1 out of 1 correct, 100%)
400 - 500
500 - 600 (14 out of 15 correct, 93%)
600 - 700 (6 out of 18 correct, 33%)
700 - 800 (0 out of 3 correct, 0%)

CAT 4 (Q. 39)
Score Range
300 - 400
400 - 500 (2 out of 2 correct, 100%)
500 - 600 (4 out of 6 correct, 67%)
600 - 700 (8 out of 17 correct, 47%)
700 - 800 (3 out of 12 correct, 25%)

From looking at the data, I am getting harder questions and getting more harder questions right however due to scoring less correct answers in total it seems as though my overall quant score is being pulled down.

I just have two questions:

- Is this the correct way to interpret data from third party tests such as Manhattan and is this calculation method a source of the difference between third party tests and the GMAT exam? Will the real GMAT calculate differently?
- In your experience, would the real GMAT keep on sending 700+ level questions until you cannot answer anymore? I hear varying reports on this with some stating that they only send a few very hard questions for even high level scorers. In my most recent CAT those difficult questions killed my time management!

Thank you for your feedback in advance!

Nate
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EMPOWERgmatRichC
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Re: Manhattan Quant Algorithm vs The Real GMAT Algorithm [#permalink] New post   24 Jul 2016, 11:07
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Hi OsmosisJ,

The scoring algorithm on the Official GMAT is far more complicated than most people realize. Since that algorithm is proprietary, no GMAT company has an exact match for it, thus CAT scores can vary a bit based on the 'biases' involved in their respective designs. The most realistic CATs available are the 6 from GMAC. It's also worth noting that practice CAT scores are only as realistic as YOU make the process of taking the CAT. The more the 'CAT-taking event' deviates from what you'll face on Test Day, the more likely the score is to be inaccurate (and in most cases, that means "inflated").

1) Have you taken any CATs besides these 4 CATs? Have you taken any of the GMAC CATs?
2) How long have you studied?
3) What materials have you used?
4) What is your goal score?
5) When are you planning to take the GMAT?

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Re: Manhattan Quant Algorithm vs The Real GMAT Algorithm [#permalink] New post   25 Jul 2016, 04:27
Hi Rich,

Appreciate the response.

I took the last CAT under full test conditions (with AWA and IR along with designated breaks) however for the previous CATS I just completed the quant and verbal sections. In this instance I was just confused as the CAT sent me much harder questions on average in comparison to my previous sittings and with my response rate I was expecting a higher overall score, therefore seeing a 4 point drop was quite a shock.

I will be taking my first GMAC mock this weekend. I have been studying for a month and a total of around 80 hours (mostly on quant, my verbal is relatively strong). I have the Manhattan books, Veritas remote learning and gmatclub tests for prep. Looking to score 720+ a couple of months from now although I can extend the test date if required.

Thanks for your feedback.
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Re: Manhattan Quant Algorithm vs The Real GMAT Algorithm [#permalink] New post   25 Jul 2016, 10:42
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Hi OsmosisJ,

Unfortunately, the GMAT scoring Algorithm is more complicated than the "get more questions correct at a higher level and you'll score higher" idea than you're talking about. As such, you shouldn't be thinking in those terms. The 4 Quant Scaled Scores that you listed are all remarkably close to one another, which means that you're responding to the Quant section in the same general ways each time that you take it - you do certain things consistently well, but you're also making the same consistent mistakes. This is all meant to say that you should focus on 'fixing' the little mistakes that you're making (regardless of the implied difficulty level of the question that you make the mistake on) before you put too much further effort into higher level questions.

Once you've taken that next CAT, you should post back here and we can discuss the results.

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Re: Manhattan Quant Algorithm vs The Real GMAT Algorithm [#permalink] New post   26 Jul 2016, 00:41
Hi Rich,

Thanks for the feedback. I have identified some question types that I am consistently struggling with so I will work on those for this week. I will provide you with another update as soon as I complete my first GMAC mock.

Thanks,
OsmosisJ
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Re: Manhattan Quant Algorithm vs The Real GMAT Algorithm [#permalink] New post   08 Aug 2016, 03:05
Hi Rich,

I just took the first GMAT mock test a couple of days ago and scored a 45 on the Quant section. As per your advice I spent the majority of my time working on the basics and I think it really helped.

I have found however that I am having issues with Data Sufficiency questions where I have to 'visualize' the answer a bit more (e.g. number lines, primes, number properties). I seem to be confusing myself when testing numbers or trying to conceptualize the answer and therefore fall into common traps. I was wondering if I could get some guidance on the best method to work through these types of problems, if it is a matter of just doing more questions of this type or trying to get a deeper conceptual understanding (although it seems to be a mix of the two from how I feel doing the question).

I think a Quant score of around 49 should be enough for me so any tips on how to go up a few more levels would be great.

Thanks for your time in advance.

Nathan
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Re: Manhattan Quant Algorithm vs The Real GMAT Algorithm [#permalink] New post   08 Aug 2016, 10:58
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Hi Nathan,

Scoring a Q49+ isn't really about 'tips' as it is knowing/using the proper Tactics, doing the necessary work on the pad (and not 'in your head') and working on the 'precision' in your work (to eliminate little mistakes that are costing you points). A Q45 means that you were really good at most of the 'math questions' that you faced, but you missed out on lots of 'strategy-based' points (likely in DS, but probably in a few PS questions too). The 'math' behind most DS questions isn't that difficult, so you shouldn't be trying to deal with those question conceptually - you should make it your goal to PROVE what the correct answer actually is (by TESTing VALUES, doing the necessary math, etc.).

1) What is your exact Test Date?

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Re: Manhattan Quant Algorithm vs The Real GMAT Algorithm [#permalink] New post   08 Aug 2016, 14:13
Hi Rich,

Appreciate the feedback, it is all making more and more sense to me.

My test is booked in for 1st September although I am not in any rush as I will be applying for round 2 in my MBA programs. Appreciate this is a difficult question to answer but would you be able to provide an estimate of how long it would take to move from a q45 to 49 on average? (For those who have been able to do it.) I am studying between 15 and 20 hours per week but can dedicate more time if required.

I am shooting for a 750 and my verbal is at 43 although I have a lot of sentence correction work to do.

Thanks again!

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Re: Manhattan Quant Algorithm vs The Real GMAT Algorithm [#permalink] New post   08 Aug 2016, 21:41
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Hi Nathan,

Unfortunately, there's no real way to answer your question. One of the problems with that query is that most Test Takers are never able to score Q49+ on the Official GMAT, and all of those Test Takers would 'weigh down' the average. In theory, you might be able to do it in a month (but you might also never be able to do it at all). Given the timeframe that you're discussing, and your past CAT results, you'd almost certainly need to invest in some new study materials and train to learn/practice some new Tactics though. The big 'variable' in all of this is how flexible a thinker you are and how quickly you can accept new approaches to answering Quant questions. There are some resources that I would recommend if you're interested though.

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Re: Manhattan Quant Algorithm vs The Real GMAT Algorithm [#permalink] New post   09 Aug 2016, 03:45
Hi Rich,

Thanks for the feedback. Yes I will try to improve wherever I can to get a better score, any suggestions on materials would be great.

Nathan
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Re: Manhattan Quant Algorithm vs The Real GMAT Algorithm [#permalink] New post   09 Aug 2016, 10:56
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Hi Nathan,

Based on everything that you've described, I think that you would find the EMPOWERgmat Quant Score Booster to be quite helpful. Most of our clients complete that Study Plan in under a month, so the time commitment wouldn't be too intense. We have a variety of free resources on our site (www.empowergmat.com), so you can 'test out' the Course before setting up an account.

If you have any additional questions, then you can feel free to contact me directly.

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Manhattan Quant Algorithm vs The Real GMAT Algorithm [#permalink] New post   Updated on: 03 Nov 2016, 17:34
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Hi Nate,

When trying to predict how you will score on the real GMAT, it’s best to analyze your scores from official GMAC practice exams, as those exams provide the most accurate exam experience and use the most accurate scoring algorithm.

In regard to GMAC’s algorithm, no one, except for GMAC, actually knows the specifics of how it works. Furthermore, focus on what you can control, such as improving your GMAT quant skills. After all, if you know your stuff on test day, you won’t have to worry about the specifics of the algorithm!

I see you scored a Q45 on a GMAC practice test and that you are hoping to take your GMAT by early September and score a Q49. While it’s difficult to predict whether you will achieve your score goal by September 1st, go for it! What makes the GMAT such a challenging exam is that there are relatively few questions asked in a given exam, yet those questions come from a huge topic pool. Thus, the best way to get a great GMAT score is to have a thorough understanding of all the topics that may be tested on the exam. Since you are already at a 45 quant, you have a great foundation in the quant topics tested on the GMAT, and now you need to begin the process of finding and fixing your weak areas.

Thus, you may consider using a study resource that will allow you to do focused practice of one quant topic at a time: number properties, exponents, roots, ratios, rates, geometry, etc. This type of practice will keep your learning focused and organized.

If you do not know which GMAT study resource to use, you can check out the course reviews on GMAT Club, which has thousands of verified reviews of different GMAT prep resources.

In the meantime, to help diagnose your GMAT quant strengths and weaknesses, I welcome you to take my free 37-question quant diagnostic. After completing the diagnostic, you are provided with a detailed analysis of your proficiency level of all GMAT quant topics, as well as an opportunity to discuss your diagnostic results with me or another TTP instructor/coach.

Please keep us updated as to how you progress in the next few weeks and reach out with any further questions.

Originally posted by ScottTargetTestPrep on 09 Aug 2016, 17:16.
Last edited by ScottTargetTestPrep on 03 Nov 2016, 17:34, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Manhattan Quant Algorithm vs The Real GMAT Algorithm [#permalink] New post   10 Aug 2016, 09:15
Hi Rich, Scott,

Thank you very much for the feedback and suggestions. I will review both of the solutions and let you know if I would like to move forward with either.

Nate
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Re: Manhattan Quant Algorithm vs The Real GMAT Algorithm [#permalink]
10 Aug 2016, 09:15

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