Welcome to the GSB / Kellogg Week!

rhyme I was also at Chicago GSB for Fall Preview. Did you really get the impression that GPA would be a deal breaker? Who did you talk to? I'm asking this because I am in the same boat, low GPA from a good school, but really high GMAT.

Well... look at who they picked out of the tree applicants....

Jed

Arrogant young kid with 3 years work experience.
Completely unable to articulate why GSB or frankly, why an MBA.
Copied his why gsb from richard montauk almost word for word (they themselves told us this!)
Used his kellogg essay to answer a GSB question and failed to answer the GSB question.
but had a 4.0GPA and 760 GMAT.

Compared to:

Immensly sucessful entreprenuer with a 3.2 gpa and 710 GMAT who could probably teach poeple a TON of things about starting a company. (I cant recall her name - Zoe or something like that)

Or

Interesting woman who has worked in non-profit, some leadership issues or concerns possibly but certainly a different applicant.

I dont know, you tell me....

Am I overconcluding?

Gee. I'm also applying for K/GSB for the 1st round. Feel a bit intimidated by the fact that you, rhyme, is doing the same
GSB app already submitted, K part II is underway.

My gpa is pretty high (4.9/5.0 - it's a Russian university), however I'm not considering this a dicisive aspect at all.

Um, I wasn't there. Who did they pick?

Jed.

The sucessful entrepreneur had opened up a 115 acre golf course, restaurant, and a couple of brew pubs across the US. Was 34 years old, female, clearly lots of significant experience in industry, certainly appeared very interesting, and I think she was the one who had something like 25 swimming awards.

The other woman had worked for another business school as Director of Recruiting or something like that, had progressed into that role after just five or six years at the firm and had opened up the first set of offices in US.

Wow, that is interesting. I guess the entrepreneur couldn't express a good reason for why she needed an MBA. I have read in a number of places that most of the top schools do not like people that just want an MBA from their top school as a trophy.

Did they happen to say anything about someone with a 780 GMAT, lower GPA but really good looking...just kidding.

For the last woman, I guess my conclusion is interesting and different doesn't necessarily mean good or sought after. Several of the admissions consultants that run blogs on BW have come out and said more or less just that. Schools say they want diversity, but they end up doing the great bulk of their hiring from traditional feeder sources. They say that they don't have cut-offs for GMAT, and they probably do not in a literal sense, but the reality is that they throw out the great bulk of applications with lower than average GMAT scores 'real quick like'.

Of course, the first guy Jed seems to go against everything that adcoms like to tell you. Don't worry about GPA, don't worry about GMAT, just make sure you know the school, show it's a great fit, write great essays so they can get to know you, yada yada yada, but in the end all that stuff doesn't amount to a pile of beans (maybe just a small pile).

I actually got a chance to coner Rose, assistant director of admissions, and asked her why EVERYONE chose Jed and she gave the same answer as she did during the presentation: GSB will admit the best applicant without the best application, but it will also admit the best application. So there is room for both. Now seriously Jed had a LOT going for him besides raw stats; his rec letters, work exp, and activitites were all outstanding. Personally, I thought Ellie was the worst candidate. Yes, she was an entreprenuer but personally I though her work history was very sketchy.

In all fairness yes, Jeds recs were great. I thought his activities were great in school but weak thereafter, personal.

Glad to hear Rose say "also admit the best application".

My "shining star" is two outstanding recommendations from GSB graduates.

That's good to know. I guess even schools like Chicago will admit an applicant like Jed as a "stretch" hoping that while he didn't show quite as much interest in his essays he might still attend.

Rhyme, it sounds like you will rock all the other parts of your app. That's a great explanation that they will admit the best applicants as well as the best applications.

It's also interesting that the two of you seem to have different reactions to each of the applicant profiles. Crapshoot I guess.

My strengths:
Reasonable GMAT, 730 (though with everyone I met having a 760, I felt like the loser in the crowd). 99% verbal.
Extremely strong post-graduate activities including leadership role in 400 member organization for over 4 years running now.
Oustanding GSB recommendations from two alumns
Extremely solid why GSB essay. It's really quite good.
Interesting and diverse background: Worked in both consulting and financial services. Sold profitable website in 05. Launched another sucessful international business I ran for 3 months thats so unique, I doubt anyone has ever applied to the GSB with anything even remotely similar.
Truly an international man of mystery: Non-us citizen, lived in four countries, speak 2 languages fluenty, and a third partially, have a great essay for the general question about "Have you travelled abroad".
Attended fall preview, (shows a real interest) and two other events.
Can claim to be the youngest person at my level at two firms.

The gray area:
Demonstrated leadership and teamwork skills (I hope) in my essays. I'd like to think this comes through, but maybe not. I'm hoping my recommenders help bring this to light. My resume highlights many of my achievements and I hope it works too, but this is an area thats hard to compare to others - because who knows what other people have done.

My weaknesses:
3.0 GMAT only partially mitigated by a large upward trend.
Although experiences diverse, difficult to explain choices in moving from firm to firm and seem like I job hop.
Weaker math score - 45 - not a great quantatative showing.
Horrific disaster on second GMAT attempt, something went wrong. Hope they ignore this score based on it going totally bonko.

Frankly....

If theres one thing I learned at fall preview its this:

Your application is a total crapshoot and completely subjective.

When asked who they would admit, the room was split amongst the three candidates. Jed did have the most votes, but nonetheless, the other two had lots too.

What I saw as weak extracurriculars, others saw as strong. What I saw as amazing work experience, others saw as weak.

On the one hand, thats reassuring - hey that means even I have a chance - on the other hand, its a bit frustrating to see how incredibly random it truly is.

Well, I think your stuff looks pretty strong. I hate how much of a crapshoot it is - I'll probably apply to 7-8 just to cut through all the randomness. I guess how all the stuff is perceived depends partly on how you sell it, and partly on whether they buy your sales pitch.

My gray area is my GPA as well, and possibly my extracurriculars. I have elite level extracurriculars during college and law school, and while I worked with law firms, but since I started my business my activities have been more personal (and harder to document). For example, I adopted 2 special needs dogs. It was a perfect situation because they needed someone that is at home all day and could give them a lot of attention. Honestly, it was a very time consuming activity (especially while one recovered from leg surgury) but how adcoms view the activity will depend on wether they buy my sales pitch. On the other hand, it's easy to document that I drafted briefs for humanitarian relief with the board of immigration appeals while in law school. I guess I hope the people that read my application like dogs

These next three months are gonna suck aren't they?

Stop worrying! Both of you are going to get admitted to at least two top schools. In fact, if I was a betting man, I would put some $$ on it!

Its the people like me - some good stuff, some not so good stuff, that should be worrying!

rhyme, I talked with about 50 people there and I think only 5 people said they were applying in R1. Dude, I am telling you better get your apps in by R1!!!

You met 5 applying R1? I met one!

You guys met people? And talked to them? Hehe.

Actually, at the Chicago info session, they did say that R2 was slightly more selective than R1, but the quality of applications was often a little better in R1. I have heard from other schools, like Wharton, that there is no difference.

I'm sure the percentages are somewhat better in R1, and it definitely would be nice to know earlier. I just think that you might be swimming with the sharks in R1 with all the best and most motivated applicants.

R2 is better for slackers like myself.

Yea its one of those chicken egg, horse cart things in a way.

Yes, maybe R1 applications get a slightly higher accept rate, but as the GSB person put it "R1 applicants tend to have been working on their material for a longer time, completed the GMAT already, so they tend to come in with strong apps."

So, based on that, is R1 "worse" cause the best applicants go in then? Or is it better because the accept rate is actually higher? Or is it higher because the applicants are better to begin with?

Horse.
Cart.

I gave up "trying to time the market" and just apply as they get done.

And yes, please, pehilu, you keep your ass in R2. I dont want to be competing against you.