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God forbid, but what would you do if you could not secure an internship offer during your first summer?

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lepium
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Put yourself in his shoes, seriously what would you do? 22 May 2007, 23:22
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cnc2

It does kind of come full circle - you go to a "brand" school, only to then realize that at the end of it all, it still comes down to you, the individual. It's easy and convenient to blame pedigree (or lack thereof), nationality, demographic profile, etc. for lack of success, when it's the hard truth of looking in the mirror at yourself and believing that it's all on YOU to make it happen (and hoping for luck along the way) that is what will allow you to succeed. Brands don't change you. You change you. Or to put it another way, it's not about what you *have*, it's about what you *do*. Character, integrity, discipline, vision and luck all matter more for success than anything else -- something that most people probably already know, but are somehow deluded into thinking otherwise when they are faced with the prospect of getting a top MBA."
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I do agree to some extent with his comments, however, I still think that:

1) An Ultra Elite / Elite MBA will probably help you get better / more interviews than a lower ranked program. Of course, once in the interview, it's mainly you and not your school that counts.

2) He mentions that HBS and Stanford students were jobless around 2001. However, he fails to provide overall figures and, most importantly, he fails to mention how the average HBS / Stanford student fared in comparison with the students from lower clustered schools. I mean, yeah, it could be the case that 20% of Stanford grads had not found a job in a bad year. But if 20% of Stanford grads did not find a job, then I'd expect 50%+ of Thunderbird grads to not find jobs.

I insist on my perception that it's all about probabilities. On a bad market, I estimate that the probability of landing a nice job is higher from a better reputed school than from a lesser reputed school. On a good market, it should still be the same.

Cheers. L.
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pelihu
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Put yourself in his shoes, seriously what would you do? 22 May 2007, 23:48
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I agree with Lepium, it's all relative. If you are at Stanford and you cannot get an interview or land a job because you are a schmuck on wheels, you'll have an even harder time getting an interview or landing a job at some random lower ranked school because you'll still be the same schmuck, just at a different school.

Alex may be correct in that ultimately it comes down to the individual, but the reality is that you can't change who you are. No matter where you go, there you are. If you are at Stanford, you'll have the reputation of that school to supplement your resume. If you are at Harvard, you can add that to your resume. If you are at XXX then you have that going for you. Whatever XXX is, it's not as good as having Harvard or Stanford on your resume.

If you're a smoothie that could squeeze multiple offers from top firms with an MBA from Oklahoma, you can certainly get the same offers and more if you have an MBA from Stanford. If you're a schmuck who couldn't get into the K-mart management training program (I know they're not around any more) with an MBA from Harvard, you'll have even less success, if that's possible, with an MBA from Chico State.

So whatever school you're at, you'll be bringing your own history, work experience, college record, interview skills, personality etc. to the party. That's not going to change. At this point, more opportunities will be available if you can tack an ultra-elite or elite MBA to the top.
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GMATT73
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Put yourself in his shoes, seriously what would you do? 23 May 2007, 07:32
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pelihu
I agree with Lepium, it's all relative. If you are at Stanford and you cannot get an interview or land a job because you are a schmuck on wheels, you'll have an even harder time getting an interview or landing a job at some random lower ranked school because you'll still be the same schmuck, just at a different school.

Alex may be correct in that ultimately it comes down to the individual, but the reality is that you can't change who you are. No matter where you go, there you are. If you are at Stanford, you'll have the reputation of that school to supplement your resume. If you are at Harvard, you can add that to your resume. If you are at XXX then you have that going for you. Whatever XXX is, it's not as good as having Harvard or Stanford on your resume.

If you're a smoothie that could squeeze multiple offers from top firms with an MBA from Oklahoma, you can certainly get the same offers and more if you have an MBA from Stanford. If you're a schmuck who couldn't get into the K-mart management training program (I know they're not around any more) with an MBA from Harvard, you'll have even less success, if that's possible, with an MBA from Chico State.

So whatever school you're at, you'll be bringing your own history, work experience, college record, interview skills, personality etc. to the party. That's not going to change. At this point, more opportunities will be available if you can tack an ultra-elite or elite MBA to the top.
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That being said, I can't help but think that the most probable factor which stood between him and a marketing internship was his lack of experience. Which brings up the next question, how can tier II career changers maximize their chances of landing an intership?
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MoonShine
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Put yourself in his shoes, seriously what would you do? 23 May 2007, 08:21
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Start networking and talk to companies before the start of the MBA program. Some companies even have 3-4 day workshops in the summer for potential career changers. (You do have to apply and write an essay for these programs).



GMATT73
pelihu
I agree with Lepium, it's all relative. If you are at Stanford and you cannot get an interview or land a job because you are a schmuck on wheels, you'll have an even harder time getting an interview or landing a job at some random lower ranked school because you'll still be the same schmuck, just at a different school.

Alex may be correct in that ultimately it comes down to the individual, but the reality is that you can't change who you are. No matter where you go, there you are. If you are at Stanford, you'll have the reputation of that school to supplement your resume. If you are at Harvard, you can add that to your resume. If you are at XXX then you have that going for you. Whatever XXX is, it's not as good as having Harvard or Stanford on your resume.

If you're a smoothie that could squeeze multiple offers from top firms with an MBA from Oklahoma, you can certainly get the same offers and more if you have an MBA from Stanford. If you're a schmuck who couldn't get into the K-mart management training program (I know they're not around any more) with an MBA from Harvard, you'll have even less success, if that's possible, with an MBA from Chico State.

So whatever school you're at, you'll be bringing your own history, work experience, college record, interview skills, personality etc. to the party. That's not going to change. At this point, more opportunities will be available if you can tack an ultra-elite or elite MBA to the top.

That being said, I can't help but think that the most probable factor which stood between him and a marketing internship was his lack of experience. Which brings up the next question, how can tier II career changers maximize their chances of landing an intership?
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Put yourself in his shoes, seriously what would you do? 23 May 2007, 10:15
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I agree with some of what Alex Chu wrote, but not all of it. (Is Alex Chu the guy who posts in some of the Business Week threads and is kind of a blowhard?)

Obviously an MBA grad is going to have to perform well to advance post-MBA. However, I have to believe that the brand name MBA will continue to open doors years after graduation. Now that may not matter for someone who is already very successful in one's field. However, I suspect that a brand name MBA gives one instant credibility, and that can sometimes make a difference.
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