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Re: A container has 3 liters of pure wine. 1 liter from the container is [#permalink]
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144144 wrote:
Karishma, Thanks a lot. +1.

I understood everything until the step of *3/5. can u please explain?

bc every time we take out 1 liter of mixture and add 2 liters of water. how is *3/5*4/6****calculate that?

thanks a lot.


First time, \(C_f = 1 * 2/4\)
Second time when you remove 1 litre from 4 litres, Initial Volume becomes 3 lts. When you add 2 lts of water back, final volume becomes 5 lts.

Now for second step, \(C_f = C_i * 3/5\)
\(C_i\) for the second step is the final concentration obtained from step 1 i.e. \(C_i\) for second step = 1 * 2/4
So, \(C_f = 1 * 2/4 * 3/5\)
and so on for every subsequent step... It doesn't matter whether we have 19 or 119 steps, we still get our answer in 2 steps.
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Re: A container has 3 liters of pure wine. 1 liter from the container is [#permalink]
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Kronax wrote:
I think it's almost impossible within 2-3 minutes to figure out and build the pattern of 6/3, 6/4, 6/5,.....
Just wonder how did you notice that 3L-1L=2=6/3L and why not 4/2L or 10/5L?


This is not a GMAT question, so don't worry about it.
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Re: A container has 3 liters of pure wine. 1 liter from the container is [#permalink]
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The trick is to identify there should be a pattern as it is not possible to carry out all the calculations.

1. Initially wine was 3L.
2. After first operation wine was 2L
3. After second operation wine was 1.5L
4. After third operation wine was 1.2L

Now we can see the pattern (2) is 2/3 of (1), (3) is 3/4 of (2), (4) is 4/5 of (3) and so on

So in 3 operations wine left is 3 * 2/3 * 3/4 * 4/5 , after cancelling out of numbers we have 3* 2/5 = 1.2 L

So in 19 operations after cancelling out of numbers 3* 2/21 = 2/7 L of wine left
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Re: A container has 3 liters of pure wine. 1 liter from the container is [#permalink]
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Initial q-ty: 3L

1 operation: +2L-1L=+1L
19 operations: +19L

The final q-ty of mixture (or denominator) is 3L+19L=22L. How it can be transformed to X/7 or X/19? What have I missed?

P.s. Why only 3 answer choices?
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Re: A container has 3 liters of pure wine. 1 liter from the container is [#permalink]
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tingle15 wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
Let's go step by step:

First operation: 3L-1L=2=6/3L of wine left, total 4L;
#2: 6/3L-(6/3)/4=6/3-6/12=18/12=6/4L of wine left, total 5L;
#3: 6/4L-(6/4)/5=6/4-6/20=24/20=6/5L, total 6L;
#4: 6/5L-(6/5)/6=6/5-6/30=30/30=6/6L, total 7L;
....

At this point it's already possible to see the pattern: x=6/(n+2)

n=19 --> x=6/(19+2)=6/21=2/7L

Answer: A.


Bunuel could you please explain the calculation for the 2nd op... Thanks


After 1st operation 2=6/3L of wine is left out of total 4L. When then for 2nd operation we remove 1L of mixture (or 1/4th of total mixture), we remove 2*1/4 of wine as well.

Hope it's clear.
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Re: A container has 3 liters of pure wine. 1 liter from the container is [#permalink]
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y7214001 wrote:

Kudos +1 Karishma

Is there an fast way to compute the result of the multiplacation series like we have for \(Cf\)? I actually did the long way . :oops:


It would have taken forever!

\(C_f = 1 * (\frac{2}{4}) * (\frac{3}{5}) * (\frac{4}{6}) * (\frac{5}{7}) * ....... (\frac{18}{20}) * (\frac{19}{21}) * (\frac{20}{22})\)

You need to observe here that other than first two numerators and last two denominators, all other terms will cancel out.
First term's denominator will cancel out third term's numerator.
Second term's denominator will cancel out fourth term's numerator.
The last two denominators will have no numerators to cancel them out.
The first two numerators have no denominators to cancel them out.
Usually, in such expressions (where terms have a pattern), things simplify easily. You just need to observe the pattern.
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Re: A container has 3 liters of pure wine. 1 liter from the container is [#permalink]
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mariyea wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
Let's go step by step:

First operation: 3L-1L=2=6/3L of wine left, total 4L;
#2: 6/3L-(6/3)/4=6/3-6/12=18/12=6/4L of wine left, total 5L;
#3: 6/4L-(6/4)/5=6/4-6/20=24/20=6/5L, total 6L;
#4: 6/5L-(6/5)/6=6/5-6/30=30/30=6/6L, total 7L;
....

At this point it's already possible to see the pattern: x=6/(n+2)

n=19 --> x=6/(19+2)=6/21=2/7L

Answer: A.


I don't understand how the sequence could result in 2/7.

6/3 is supposed to be the ratio of 2

The first sequence begins by 3L-1L= 2L then 2L+2L=4L the process goes on until it becomes 21L because the process is like simply adding one over and over again.

I'm really confused please help me!


After the first operation there will be 2L of wine left. 2 can be expressed as a fraction and be written as 6/3. Then as you can see in the solution, for any operation the amount of wine can be expressed as 6/(# of operations+2) L.

Anyway: this is not a GMAT question, so don't worry about it.
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This is a really high-level "sequence" question that's built on some "math steps" that you'll see on Test Day, but not likely in this configuration.

In these types of "repeating steps" sequence question, the key is to figure out the "pattern" behind the math, so that you can avoid most of the calculation.

Here, the repeating step is "remove 1L of mixture and add 2L of water." Most people can't figure out the math pattern off of the top of their heads, so you have to do enough of the math to figure out what the pattern actually is. Here's how I deduced the pattern:

Start: 3L wine
1st: -1L mix + 2L water = 2L wine + 2 L water = 4L total

2nd: -1L mix = 1/4 of total removed = (.5L wine + .5L water removed) + 2L water added = 1.5L wine + 3.5L water = 5L total

3rd: -1L mix = 1/5 of total removed = (.3L wine + .7L water removed) + 2L water added = 1.2L wine + 4.8L water = 6L total

This pattern will continue on, slowly removing wine and quickly adding water to the mixture. Rather than do ALL of that math (for 19 operations!?!), here's the pattern:

Each operation is really about multiplying the remaining amount of wine by (1 - 1/n).

After the first operation, we multiply by 3/4, after the second 4/5 and so on. After 19 operations, we'd end up with…

2(3/4)(4/5)(5/6)…….(20/21) = 6/21 = 2/7

Final Answer: A

Don't worry about this question. It's really not worth your time.

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Re: A container has 3 liters of pure wine. 1 liter from the container is [#permalink]
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pearljiandani wrote:
VeritasKarishma wrote:
y7214001 wrote:

Kudos +1 Karishma

Is there an fast way to compute the result of the multiplacation series like we have for \(Cf\)? I actually did the long way . :oops:


It would have taken forever!

\(C_f = 1 * (\frac{2}{4}) * (\frac{3}{5}) * (\frac{4}{6}) * (\frac{5}{7}) * ....... (\frac{18}{20}) * (\frac{19}{21}) * (\frac{20}{22})\)

You need to observe here that other than first two numerators and last two denominators, all other terms will cancel out.
First term's denominator will cancel out third term's numerator.
Second term's denominator will cancel out fourth term's numerator.
The last two denominators will have no numerators to cancel them out.
The first two numerators have no denominators to cancel them out.
Usually, in such expressions (where terms have a pattern), things simplify easily. You just need to observe the pattern.



Hi VeritasKarishma

I'm stuck with the last bit here, it'll be great if you can help

I've come to the part where I have (2*3)/(21*22) after all cancellations which ultimately gives me 1/77. In your blog there was another sum where we started with a 50% concentration solution. So the final concentration was 50 * 9/10 * 9/10. In this case, since it's pure lemon juice, shouldn't it be 100% * 1/77 ? Where am I going wrong? And how do I get the answer after this?


Yes, the initial concentration is 100% which is the same as 1 (because 100% = 100/100). That is why I have used 1. I am using concentration in terms of fractions.
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Re: A container has 3 liters of pure wine. 1 liter from the container is [#permalink]
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virtualanimosity wrote:
Q: A container has 3L of pure wine. 1L from the container is taken out and 2L water is added.The process is repeated several times. After 19 such operations, qty of wine in mixture is

1. 2/7 L
2. 3/7 L
3. 6/19L


Thats a too tough to calculated.

Got (2/7)L in A - After a lengthy calculation.
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I think it's almost impossible within 2-3 minutes to figure out and build the pattern of 6/3, 6/4, 6/5,.....
Just wonder how did you notice that 3L-1L=2=6/3L and why not 4/2L or 10/5L?
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Bunuel wrote:
Let's go step by step:

First operation: 3L-1L=2=6/3L of wine left, total 4L;
#2: 6/3L-(6/3)/4=6/3-6/12=18/12=6/4L of wine left, total 5L;
#3: 6/4L-(6/4)/5=6/4-6/20=24/20=6/5L, total 6L;
#4: 6/5L-(6/5)/6=6/5-6/30=30/30=6/6L, total 7L;
....

At this point it's already possible to see the pattern: x=6/(n+2)

n=19 --> x=6/(19+2)=6/21=2/7L

Answer: A.


Bunuel could you please explain the calculation for the 2nd op... Thanks
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Re: A container has 3 liters of pure wine. 1 liter from the container is [#permalink]
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Wow, it took me quite a while to figure this out.

Basically, just examine how the wine content works out

at n=0 w=3L
n=1 w=2
n=2 w=1.5
n=3 w=1.2
n=4 w=1.0

thank figure out w at n=1 = 3 x (2/3)
w at n=2, w = 3 x (2/3) x (3/4)
at n=3, w = 3 x (2/3) x (3/4) * (4/5) and so forth

therefore at n=x, w = 3 x (2 / (x+2))
n=19 w = 3 x (2/21), w = 6 / 21 = 2 / 7

Took me 5 minutes, which is embarrassing....
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pharm wrote:

If the operation is only done 19 times then where and why does "22" Lt pop up in the final volume of mixture I was following how the demoninators increased but dont understand the "22".

Also if 1 L of wine is removed every operation how is the concentration of the wine mixture go up since part of it is being removed...only thing that is increasing the total volume of the solution..

Thanks a lot.


After the first step, the volume is 4 lt. After the second, it will be 5 lt. By the same logic, after the 19th step, it will be 19+3 = 22.
or Initial volume is 3 lt and you add net 1 lt in every step. So after the 19th step you will have 3+19 = 22 lt

From a homogeneous mixture, if you remove some quantity of the mixture, the concentration of the elements stays the same. e.g., say you have a solution of 50% milk. If you take out some solution, what will be the concentration of milk in the leftover solution? It will still be 50%. The quantity of milk will reduce but not the concentration.
Check out this post for more details:
https://www.gmatclub.com/forum/veritas-prep-resource-links-no-longer-available-399979.html#/2012/01 ... -mixtures/
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emailmkarthik wrote:
Hi Bunuel and VeritasPrepKarishma,

Would it be possible to use this formula in this case?

New Concentration of wine= Old concentration of wine * (V1/V2)^n

n= number of iterations (it is 19 in this case)
v1 = volume of liquid withdrawn
v1 = initial volume of liquid

I noticed a similar formula being used here:
a-20-litre-mixture-of-milk-and-water-contains-milk-and-water-22212.html

Regards,


Actually, it is a play on the same formula.

Cf = Ci * (V1/V2)*(V3/V4).....

Usually, in replacement questions, you remove n lts and put back n lts. So initial and final volume in each step is the same. That is why you get (V1/V2)^n.

In case V1 and V2 are different in subsequent steps, you use those volumes V1/V2 * V3/V4 *.....
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Re: A container has 3 liters of pure wine. 1 liter from the container is [#permalink]
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VeritasKarishma wrote:
The question can be solved in under a minute if you understand the concept of concentration and volume.

Removal and addition happen 19 times so:

\(C_f = 1 * (\frac{2}{4}) * (\frac{3}{5}) * (\frac{4}{6}) * (\frac{5}{7}) * .......* (\frac{19}{21}) * (\frac{20}{22})\)
All terms get canceled (4 in num with 4 in den, 5 in num with 5 in den etc) and you are left with \(C_f = \frac{1}{77}\)
Since Volume now is 22 lt, Volume of wine = \(22*(\frac{1}{77}) = \frac{2}{7}\)

Theory:
1. When a fraction of a solution is removed, the percentage of either part does not change. If milk:water = 1:1 in initial solution, it remains 1:1 in final solution.

2. When you add one component to a solution, the amount of other component does not change. In milk and water solution, if you add water, amount of milk is the same (not percentage but amount)

3.
Amount of A = Concentration of A * Volume of mixture
Amount = C*V
( e.g. In a 10 lt mixture of milk and water, if milk is 50%, Amount of milk = 50%*10 = 5 lt)
When you add water to this solution, the amount of milk does not change.
So Initial Conc * Initial Volume = Final Conc * Final Volume
\(C_i * V_i = C_f * V_f\)
\(C_f = C_i * (V_i/V_f)\)
In the question above, we find the final concentration of wine. Initial concentration \(C_i\) = 1 (because it is pure wine)
When you remove 1 lt out of 3 lt, the volume becomes 2 lt which is your initial volume for the addition step. When you add 2 lts, final volume becomes 4 lt.
So \(C_f = 1 * 2/4\)
Since it is done 19 times, \(C_f = 1 * (\frac{2}{4}) * (\frac{3}{5}) * (\frac{4}{6}) * (\frac{5}{7}) * .......* (\frac{19}{21}) * (\frac{20}{22})\)

The concentration of wine is 1/77 and since the final volume is 22 lt (the last term has \(V_f\) as 22, you get amount of wine = 1/77 * 22 = 2/7 lt


Great explanation - very helpful! :thumbsup:

Just a quick question; what if the same question asked to find the volume of water instead of milk after 19 operations? This would not apply right?
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beeblebrox wrote:
VeritasKarishma wrote:
The question can be solved in under a minute if you understand the concept of concentration and volume.

Removal and addition happen 19 times so:

\(C_f = 1 * (\frac{2}{4}) * (\frac{3}{5}) * (\frac{4}{6}) * (\frac{5}{7}) * .......* (\frac{19}{21}) * (\frac{20}{22})\)
All terms get canceled (4 in num with 4 in den, 5 in num with 5 in den etc) and you are left with \(C_f = \frac{1}{77}\)
Since Volume now is 22 lt, Volume of wine = \(22*(\frac{1}{77}) = \frac{2}{7}\)

Theory:
1. When a fraction of a solution is removed, the percentage of either part does not change. If milk:water = 1:1 in initial solution, it remains 1:1 in final solution.

2. When you add one component to a solution, the amount of other component does not change. In milk and water solution, if you add water, amount of milk is the same (not percentage but amount)

3.
Amount of A = Concentration of A * Volume of mixture
Amount = C*V
( e.g. In a 10 lt mixture of milk and water, if milk is 50%, Amount of milk = 50%*10 = 5 lt)
When you add water to this solution, the amount of milk does not change.
So Initial Conc * Initial Volume = Final Conc * Final Volume
\(C_i * V_i = C_f * V_f\)
\(C_f = C_i * (V_i/V_f)\)
In the question above, we find the final concentration of wine. Initial concentration \(C_i\) = 1 (because it is pure wine)
When you remove 1 lt out of 3 lt, the volume becomes 2 lt which is your initial volume for the addition step. When you add 2 lts, final volume becomes 4 lt.
So \(C_f = 1 * 2/4\)
Since it is done 19 times, \(C_f = 1 * (\frac{2}{4}) * (\frac{3}{5}) * (\frac{4}{6}) * (\frac{5}{7}) * .......* (\frac{19}{21}) * (\frac{20}{22})\)

The concentration of wine is 1/77 and since the final volume is 22 lt (the last term has \(V_f\) as 22, you get amount of wine = 1/77 * 22 = 2/7 lt


Hi VeritasKarishma,

Can you please share first 4 iteration with formula:\(C_i * V_i = C_f * V_f\).

I get how you got:\(C_f = 1 * 2/4\)

Similarly can you explain using this formula how you got 3/5, 4/6, 5/7?

This will help in clearly understanding the operation of the formula.

Thanks.


First check this: https://www.gmatclub.com/forum/veritas-prep-resource-links-no-longer-available-399979.html#/2012/0 ... -mixtures/

\(C_f = C_i * (V_i/V_f)\)

\(C_2 = C_1 * (V_1/V_2)\)

In the beg, we have 3 lt wine. 1 lt is removed and we have 2 lt wine.
Next, 2 lt water is added to give 4 lt of mixture. So we get 2/4.

\(C_2 = 1 * (2/4)\)

Next, 1 lt mixture is removed to get 3 lt mixture.
And then 2 lt water is added to get 5 lt mixture. So we get 3/5.

\(C_3 = C_2 * (3/5)\)
\(C_3 = 1 * (2/4) * (3/5)\)

Next, 1 lt mixture is removed to get 4 lt mixture.
And then 2 lt water is added to get 6 lt mixture. So we get 4/6.

\(C_4 = C_3 * (4/6)\)
\(C_4 = 1 * (2/4) * (3/5) * (4/6) \)

and so on...
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