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Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores

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Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   07 Jun 2015, 15:25
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Hello everyone! This is my first post as I have just found this forum today.

I took an official GMATPrep practice test very early in my studies and scored a 690. After 3 weeks of pretty intensive study I took 2 Veritas practice tests and scored 560 and 570! I have a couple more months of prep time but needless to say I am discouraged considering how much I feel like I have learned over the past few weeks.

Does anybody have an opinion on the accuracy of these Veritas tests? It seems like some people rate them as easier while others say they are harder. What other practice tests would you recommend? I am considering going with Manhattan.
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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   07 Jun 2015, 21:59
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Nathan - I'd put a lot more stock in your GMATPrep scores than in any other scores, and if you truly need another estimate of your level, you'll get the best information from the additional GMATPrep tests you can buy from mba.com. Some of my students report similar scores between company and official tests, while others report huge discrepancies. GMATPrep is consistently the most reliable indicator.

And I don't like to disagree with Brandon, but I think this needs clarification:

VeritasPrepBrandon wrote:
That being said, Veritas tests are the next best thing. The tests utilize the same algorithm as that utilized by the gmat exam itself


Your company's webpage is careful not to say that - it says "Veritas Prep’s practice tests are built on a platform that employs Item Response Theory (IRT), the same system underlying the real GMAT". It does not to claim to use "the same algorithm" as the GMAT, because there's a huge leap from "using IRT" to "using the GMAT algorithm". There's a lot more to the algorithm than just the IRT foundation. I'm happy to discuss in more detail, but I don't want to sidetrack this thread with stuff of no relevance to the OP. But I'd add: that a test uses IRT has little to do with its value as a predictor of GMAT scores, because IRT has little to do with test validity (as that term is used in test theory).

And I hope no one thinks I'm commenting on the quality of Veritas tests (I think I've only taken the free one, so I'm not very familiar with them). I'm not - I just wanted to clarify that no tests besides the official ones use the same algorithm as the real thing.
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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   22 Jun 2015, 02:19
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The GMATPrep tests are the single most useful study resource available, so I'd definitely get the two extra ones. With those, you can take four tests without seeing any repeat questions. But the question database in the tests is fairly large, so if you do retake a test, you often won't see that many repeats. That's especially true if you've improved - on an adaptive test, then you'll start seeing harder (and therefore new) questions than the previous time. And if you space out your retakes, you're less likely to remember any repeat questions in detail.

It used to be possible to take each GMATPrep test about four times and get a lot of value out of each attempt (there were four different possible first questions, so it was theoretically possible not to see any repetition, though in practice there would be some). But I think the question base is smaller now, so that may not be true any more. But you can probably get eight useful tests out of them (taking each twice), which is a lot more tests than most people need. Taking a lot of tests is an inefficient way to study content - it's really only important to take several tests if you have a lot of trouble implementing a good pacing strategy, or have a lot of difficulty getting comfortable with working off a computer screen and other aspects of test-taking.
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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   07 Jun 2015, 15:34
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Hi Nathan2508,

Considering the score discrepancy here, it might be better to start off by defining what YOU did differently between your first CAT and these last 2 CATs:

1) Did you take the ENTIRE CAT (including the Essay and IR sections) all 3 times?
2) Did you take the CATs at the same time of day?
3) Did you take all 3 CATs under realistic and 'test-like' conditions?
4) Did you do ANYTHING that you won't be allowed to do on Test Day (pause the Test, listen to music, eat/drink while taking the CAT, etc.)?

In these types of situations, the details really matter, so you have to nitpick your process so that we can figure out if your current abilities place you in the high 600s or the high 500s.

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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   07 Jun 2015, 15:39
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So I am going to reply here, even though my words will inevitably be taken with a grain of salt. Nothing is more accurate than the official GMAT Prep practice tests. That being said, Veritas tests are the next best thing. The tests utilize the same algorithm as that utilized by the gmat exam itself, and they have been confirmed as highly accurate. As for some people saying that they are easier than official exams, and others saying they are more difficult, of course you are going to hear that. Every exam is unique. If all test takers unanimously agreed that they were either easier or more difficult than the real deal, then that would be more cause for concern. Additionally, taking the gmat in a real proctored environment will always be different from taking a practice test in your house. It is impossible to completely replicate the intensity of that environment in your home.

If you are curious about Manhattan's or any other company's practice tests, then I encourage you to take them. There is no harm in taking more practice tests!!!
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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   08 Jun 2015, 17:01
Nathan2508 wrote:
Hello everyone! This is my first post as I have just found this forum today.

I took an official GMATPrep practice test very early in my studies and scored a 690. After 3 weeks of pretty intensive study I took 2 Veritas practice tests and scored 560 and 570! I have a couple more months of prep time but needless to say I am discouraged considering how much I feel like I have learned over the past few weeks.

Does anybody have an opinion on the accuracy of these Veritas tests? It seems like some people rate them as easier while others say they are harder. What other practice tests would you recommend? I am considering going with Manhattan.


Hey Nathan2508

We can't comment for other tests but do note that no test prep company's algorithm will exactly match the real thing. The best we can do is get close.

You can always take a free GMAT PILL practice test here complete with detailed performance and timing analytics: https://www.gmatpill.com/gmat-practice-t ... ctice-test

In terms of our scoring, many of our students report scores that are +/- 30 points from their actual GMAT test and so are a relatively good indicator of their performance. That said, no practice test can perfectly replicate the actual score algorithm, but this is quite close.

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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   11 Jun 2015, 10:57
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Nathan2508 wrote:
Hello everyone! This is my first post as I have just found this forum today.

I took an official GMATPrep practice test very early in my studies and scored a 690. After 3 weeks of pretty intensive study I took 2 Veritas practice tests and scored 560 and 570! I have a couple more months of prep time but needless to say I am discouraged considering how much I feel like I have learned over the past few weeks.

Does anybody have an opinion on the accuracy of these Veritas tests? It seems like some people rate them as easier while others say they are harder. What other practice tests would you recommend? I am considering going with Manhattan.


Hi Nathan,

That is indeed a pretty big discrepancy. Always go by the official GMAC practice tests more than any test prep company's tests, but that's a big enough discrepancy that I would recommend taking another one of our tests... I'm curious to see how you do.

To that end, we actually just launched a new program to help us calibrate our tests and ensure that they give students scores that closely match what they would earn on the GMATPrep tests and the Official GMAT. We frequently gather data and have in fact made some pretty big tweaks to our algorithm in the past three months (I can't divulge!), but this represents our biggest effort yet to collect students' scores:

https://www.gmatclub.com/forum/veritas-prep-resource-links-no-longer-available-399979.html#-tes ... -score.php

All you have to do is upload either your official GMAT score report or a screen capture of your GMATPrep practice test results within two weeks of taking either test, and we will give you full access to all 7 of our practice tests (a $49 value)!

Let me know if you have any questions!

Scott
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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   20 Jun 2015, 17:40
How many GMATPrep CATs can you take? I know they have the 2 free ones. I see this 2-pack on their website for $49.99. I assume this is in addition to the 2 free ones and the most you can take is 4?
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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   29 Jul 2015, 01:02
Nathan2508 wrote:
Hello everyone! This is my first post as I have just found this forum today.

I took an official GMATPrep practice test very early in my studies and scored a 690. After 3 weeks of pretty intensive study I took 2 Veritas practice tests and scored 560 and 570! I have a couple more months of prep time but needless to say I am discouraged considering how much I feel like I have learned over the past few weeks.

Does anybody have an opinion on the accuracy of these Veritas tests? It seems like some people rate them as easier while others say they are harder. What other practice tests would you recommend? I am considering going with Manhattan.


I also have experienced a gap in my GMATPrep practice test 1, and the Veritas exams (using the free 7 tests you get after submitting them to Veritas.

GMATPrep: 740 (Q49/V41)
Veritas 1: 670 (Q46/V36)
Veritas 2: 650 (Q44/V35)

Granted, I did take the GMATPrep test under test-taking conditions, and the Veritas tests were not taken in quiet places, I still worry that my scores are pretty different. I'm hoping to try just one more Veritas test under normal conditions to see what happens. I have been practicing a lot, so it could also be test fatigue.
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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   29 Jul 2015, 20:03
quixx23 wrote:
Nathan2508 wrote:
Hello everyone! This is my first post as I have just found this forum today.

I took an official GMATPrep practice test very early in my studies and scored a 690. After 3 weeks of pretty intensive study I took 2 Veritas practice tests and scored 560 and 570! I have a couple more months of prep time but needless to say I am discouraged considering how much I feel like I have learned over the past few weeks.

Does anybody have an opinion on the accuracy of these Veritas tests? It seems like some people rate them as easier while others say they are harder. What other practice tests would you recommend? I am considering going with Manhattan.


Hi Nathan,

That is indeed a pretty big discrepancy. Always go by the official GMAC practice tests more than any test prep company's tests, but that's a big enough discrepancy that I would recommend taking another one of our tests... I'm curious to see how you do.

To that end, we actually just launched a new program to help us calibrate our tests and ensure that they give students scores that closely match what they would earn on the GMATPrep tests and the Official GMAT. We frequently gather data and have in fact made some pretty big tweaks to our algorithm in the past three months (I can't divulge!), but this represents our biggest effort yet to collect students' scores:

https://www.gmatclub.com/forum/veritas-prep-resource-links-no-longer-available-399979.html#-tes ... -score.php

All you have to do is upload either your official GMAT score report or a screen capture of your GMATPrep practice test results within two weeks of taking either test, and we will give you full access to all 7 of our practice tests (a $49 value)!

Let me know if you have any questions!

Scott



So I Just go and do an exam no matter how I score and upload the data from the free test at mba.com and I will get 7 free practice tests from Veritas?
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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   29 Jul 2015, 20:17
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bfarooq wrote:

So I Just go and do an exam no matter how I score and upload the data from the free test at mba.com and I will get 7 free practice tests from Veritas?



That's right! Just be sure to submit your results within two weeks of when you took the test.
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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   30 Jul 2015, 09:24
I've recently completed 3 of the GMATPrep tests. I noticed that I got many of the same Integrated Reasoning questions on all three exams.

As far as the Quant and Verbal, I think Ian is right. The exams are good for 1 retake each.
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Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   30 Jul 2015, 10:43
As everyone else has said, GMATPrep scores are very predictive and any third party test, while good for practice, is much less so. Still, the discrepancy is large enough that you may want to take the second free GMATPrep exam under realistic conditions to hone in on your true score.

I'd also recommend buying the two additional GMATPrep exams, and only then doing one retake of each (for a total of eight official CATs). I took four full GMATPreps before my exam - 650 for the first one early on, 680 (retake of first), followed by a 700, and a 710. I got a 700 on the GMAT (plan to retake). [For what it's worth, I took the free Veritas exam before any real studying and got a 690.] I think the real GMAT questions are worded in a way that closely reflect your ability.

///EDIT/// I may take VeritasPrep up on its offer of free CATs for official GMAT scores and let you know how close they are to each other.
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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   04 Aug 2015, 17:15
jz4analytics wrote:
As everyone else has said, GMATPrep scores are very predictive and any third party test, while good for practice, is much less so. Still, the discrepancy is large enough that you may want to take the second free GMATPrep exam under realistic conditions to hone in on your true score.

I'd also recommend buying the two additional GMATPrep exams, and only then doing one retake of each (for a total of eight official CATs). I took four full GMATPreps before my exam - 650 for the first one early on, 680 (retake of first), followed by a 700, and a 710. I got a 700 on the GMAT (plan to retake). [For what it's worth, I took the free Veritas exam before any real studying and got a 690.] I think the real GMAT questions are worded in a way that closely reflect your ability.

///EDIT/// I may take VeritasPrep up on its offer of free CATs for official GMAT scores and let you know how close they are to each other.

I sure hope the GMATPrep tests are more like the score I will get. I completed 5 more Veritas tests and my score ranged from a 620-670. I plan to take the second GMATPrep test the day before test day under realistic conditions. We'll see what happens!
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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   04 Aug 2015, 22:01
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Hi MDMBA2020,

When is your Official Test Date? I ask because taking a FULL CAT the day before your Official GMAT is NOT a good idea. By doing that, you're far more likely to 'burn out' before Test Day than realize any type of benefit from taking that CAT at that time. You'd be better served taking that last CAT about a week before your Official GMAT (on the same day of the week and at the same time, so you can try to mirror Test Day in as many ways as possible.

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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   04 Aug 2015, 22:20
EMPOWERgmatRichC wrote:
Hi MDMBA2020,

When is your Official Test Date? I ask because taking a FULL CAT the day before your Official GMAT is NOT a good idea. By doing that, you're far more likely to 'burn out' before Test Day than realize any type of benefit from taking that CAT at that time. You'd be better served taking that last CAT about a week before your Official GMAT (on the same day of the week and at the same time, so you can try to mirror Test Day in as many ways as possible.

GMAT assassins aren't born, they're made,
Rich

Hi Rich,

My test date is this Saturday. I've been taking CATs each day for the past 3 days and yes, I think I am a little burnt out as it is. I recently moved across the country to start medical school next week, so there has been a lot going on. Surely not ideal for the GMAT, but I was trying to fit this in before school starts. I am really bummed because my first GMATPrep test was so strong and my subsequent Veritas tests have been far below what I was looking for. What would be your advice at this point? Just reviewing old tests and doing focused practicing?

Thank you!
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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   04 Aug 2015, 23:20
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Hi MDMBA2020,

Considering everything that you've described, I suggest that you keep things 'light' for these last few days - NO CATS, NO 'cramming' - just some light review and practice sets. Go back and redo some of the earlier questions that you worked on (especially in your early CATs) - you'll likely be amazed at how far you've improved. Friday, you should really try to relax, get a good night's sleep and get mentally prepared to work hard on Test Day.

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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   08 Aug 2015, 12:18
I'm happy to report that my unofficial score that I got today was a 710: Q46/V41 and an 8 on IR. I'm stoked. I definitely took too many practice tests in too short of a time, but I do think that Veritas tests are a little less forgiving than the actual exam. I appreciate the free tests though, I think they were overall helpful in getting me to where I got!
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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   08 Aug 2015, 12:32
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Hi MDMBA2020,

That's outstanding news! With a 710, you can apply to any Business Schools that interest you. Since you're starting Medical School in a week, when do you think that you'll be applying to Business School?

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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink] New post   08 Aug 2015, 12:54
That is a really good question. I am unsure if I need to apply this cycle, or wait until next year entirely because I would not enter next year. I know people have already started applying!
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Re: Gap in GMATPrep vs Veritas practice test scores [#permalink]
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