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This is why you should not take GRE

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TargetKellogg2024
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This is why you should not take GRE [#permalink] This is why you should not take GRE   14 May 2024, 15:59
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­"This is why you should not take GRE"

When applying to their dream MBA program, many individuals often wonder whether the GMAT or GRE is preferred for admissions. Some find themselves performing better on one exam over the other, leading to the question: If someone struggles with the GMAT (or its Focus Edition), is there a downside to switching to the GRE?

Honestly, if the GMAT isn't yielding results and you can excel on the GRE, go for it! I did and benefited, and you can too!

But for those just starting their prep journey, how do you decide between giving your all to the GMAT or the GRE?

In this post, I'll provide a logical framework to help you decide.

Wearing my analytics hat, I wrangled business school data for M7 schools. I wanted to see how admitting 10% more candidates would affect average GMAT and GRE scores under different scenarios:

  1. 10% scoring 20 points higher than the current GMAT average
  2. 10% scoring 20 points lower than the current GMAT average
  3. 10% scoring 3 points higher than the current GRE average
  4. 10% scoring 3 points lower than the current GRE average

What did I find? Keep reading to uncover the correlation with the title!

Increasing or decreasing GRE scores resulted in negligible changes in average scores. However, increasing GMAT scores raised the average by 2 points, while decreasing GMAT scores lowered it by 2 points.

This implies that individuals with significantly higher or lower GMAT scores can notably impact a school's average GMAT, unlike with the GRE. This is logical as well, because of GMAT's 10-point increments compared to the GRE's 1-point increments.

Business schools strive to maintain high average test scores for competitiveness in MBA rankings. Consequently, they prefer not to admit candidates with significantly lower GMAT scores unless their overall profile aligns closely with the school's preferences. Conversely, schools are less concerned about average GRE scores as long as they remain balanced.

We can therefore confidently conclude that a high GMAT score is generally preferable to a high GRE score. However, a low GRE score would be better than a low GMAT score to keep you competitive for that sought-after seat.

Interested in exploring the data yourself? Drop a comment below, and I'll send you a PM with the Excel sheet for calculations :)

Below, you will find the average GMAT and GRE scores of the top business schools and the impact of adding new candidates with plus and minus scores:




­
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Re: This is why you should not take GRE [#permalink] This is why you should not take GRE   15 May 2024, 00:46
 
TargetKellogg2024 wrote:
 




­"This is why you should not take GRE"

When applying to their dream MBA program, many individuals often wonder whether the GMAT or GRE is preferred for admissions. Some find themselves performing better on one exam over the other, leading to the question: If someone struggles with the GMAT (or its Focus Edition), is there a downside to switching to the GRE?

Honestly, if the GMAT isn't yielding results and you can excel on the GRE, go for it! I did and benefited, and you can too!

But for those just starting their prep journey, how do you decide between giving your all to the GMAT or the GRE?

In this post, I'll provide a logical framework to help you decide.

Wearing my analytics hat, I wrangled business school data for M7 schools. I wanted to see how admitting 10% more candidates would affect average GMAT and GRE scores under different scenarios:





  1. 10% scoring 20 points higher than the current GMAT average
  2. 10% scoring 20 points lower than the current GMAT average
  3. 10% scoring 3 points higher than the current GRE average
  4. 10% scoring 3 points lower than the current GRE average

What did I find? Keep reading to uncover the correlation with the title!

Increasing or decreasing GRE scores resulted in negligible changes in average scores. However, increasing GMAT scores raised the average by 2 points, while decreasing GMAT scores lowered it by 2 points.

This implies that individuals with significantly higher or lower GMAT scores can notably impact a school's average GMAT, unlike with the GRE. This is logical as well, because of GMAT's 10-point increments compared to the GRE's 1-point increments.

Business schools strive to maintain high average test scores for competitiveness in MBA rankings. Consequently, they prefer not to admit candidates with significantly lower GMAT scores unless their overall profile aligns closely with the school's preferences. Conversely, schools are less concerned about average GRE scores as long as they remain balanced.

We can therefore confidently conclude that a high GMAT score is generally preferable to a high GRE score. However, a low GRE score would be better than a low GMAT score to keep you competitive for that sought-after seat.

Interested in exploring the data yourself? Drop a comment below, and I'll send you a PM with the Excel sheet for calculations :)­

­TargetKellogg2024 Interesting analysis. But I would refrain from accepting the absolute statement "We can therefore confidently conclude that a high GMAT score is generally preferable to a high GRE score."

Your analysis remains valid only if the primary objective of the admissions committees is to maintain the average GMAT/GRE scores, with other considerations revolving around this goal (though this is typically not the case).

Adcoms assess individual profile strengths and weaknesses, alongside sectional scores, against a perceived average performance for the applicants' demographic. They have a good understanding of which applicant pools or demographics will pull up or lower the average scores while still contributing valuable diversity to the class.

When considering whether to opt for the GRE or the GMAT, candidates should ideally take both exams and assess the sectional scores within their applicant pool (experts can guide as they have a pretty good idea). Applicants should choose the exam where they can demonstrate strong quantitative skills, as this aspect is non-negotiable in MBA admissions. Adcoms have traditionally associated GMAT math with more business-relevant math skills, and all else being equal, they tend to favor applicants with stronger quantitative aptitude.

For those targeting the GRE, I advise them to excel in GRE math due to the differing nature between GRE and GMAT quant sections. Verbal aptitude on the other hand is reflective of the candidate's ability to engage in meaningful discussions during case-based discussions. Adcoms check this for those demographics that typically do not get exposure to the English language since an early age. But for demographics that have established themselves with the command of English, theres more to what the adcom will consider beyong the GRE vs GMAT evaluation to decide between the applicants.




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Best wishes
Aanchal Sahni (INSEAD MBA alum, former INSEAD MBA admissions interviewer)
Founder, MBAGuideConsulting 
LinkedIn |WEBSITE: https://mbaguideconsulting.com/| Message(WA): +91 9971200927| email- mbaguideconsulting@gmail.com­
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Re: This is why you should not take GRE [#permalink] This is why you should not take GRE   15 May 2024, 14:28
Hi Aanchal!

Thank you for your response.

I agree with you that the MBA admissions team take into consideration holistic profiles of people and there are aspects other than the GMAT or the GRE scores. However, if the same person were to submit the GMAT and GRE scores, the chances may differ (even though rest of the profile is kept constant).

What I intend to communicate through this post is that for the same person, a GMAT score of 750 is better than GRE score of 330. And for another candidate, a GRE score of 320 is better than GMAT score of 650.
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Re: This is why you should not take GRE [#permalink] This is why you should not take GRE   15 May 2024, 15:48
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­Interesting point.

The images could be better uploaded. How they show up is difficult to grasp the data!!!

Good job 
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This is why you should not take GRE [#permalink] This is why you should not take GRE   15 May 2024, 20:19
 
TargetKellogg2024 wrote:
Hi Aanchal!

Thank you for your response.

I agree with you that the MBA admissions team take into consideration holistic profiles of people and there are aspects other than the GMAT or the GRE scores. However, if the same person were to submit the GMAT and GRE scores, the chances may differ (even though rest of the profile is kept constant).

What I intend to communicate through this post is that for the same person, a GMAT score of 750 is better than GRE score of 330. And for another candidate, a GRE score of 320 is better than GMAT score of 650.

TargetKellogg2024 I understand what you are trying to do but the context around WHO can sail through easily with a GRE is important here. I do not want the applicants to get confused and take home the message that one test is better than the other.  To put it simply, applicants must pick the test that helps them achieve the highest possible percentile in quant if the overall score is also not high. The GRE test is great for those candidates who come from diversity and non-quant-focused backgrounds.

To your point, a 750(old edition) is of course better than a 330. A 330 is more like a 730. A 335 is more like a 750. And adcoms are indifferent between a 335 or a 750 if everything else is equal. In the final rounds at competitive schools that are more geared toward applicants with high GMAT GRE scores, a 750 (GMAT OE) and a 335(GRE) have the same chance.

Between a score of 320(GRE) or 650(GMAT old edition), neither case would be favorable for someone from a crowded pool (because there will always be someone better). And for the non-crowded demographics, it really comes down to scores in each section, quantitative strengths, and strength of profile. I also have a hypothesis that candidates with weaker quant skills tend to apply with GRE scores. Adcoms will prefer those GRE candidates who have impressive diversity aspect but not necessarily a strong quantitative aprtitude over applicants from crowded pools applying with average GREs.  Also why GRE averages tend to signal a low number compared to GMAT. I would add here that the percentage composition of competitive MBA cohorts is created such that STEM and finance are about 2/3 rd of the class and make up a large portion of the population on the normal distribution. 

Therefore the Adcoms do not need to think so critically about GRE vs GMAT as a decision factor for similarly positioned profiles. 

Best wishes
Aanchal Sahni (INSEAD MBA alum, former INSEAD MBA admissions interviewer)
Founder, MBAGuideConsulting 
LinkedIn |WEBSITE: https://mbaguideconsulting.com/| Message(WA): +91 9971200927| email- mbaguideconsulting@gmail.com­
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TargetKellogg2024
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GMAT 1: 680 Q47 V36
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Re: This is why you should not take GRE [#permalink] This is why you should not take GRE   17 May 2024, 03:54
 
Quote:
 TargetKellogg2024 I understand what you are trying to do but the context around WHO can sail through easily with a GRE is important here. I do not want the applicants to get confused and take home the message that one test is better than the other.  To put it simply, applicants must pick the test that helps them achieve the highest possible percentile in quant if the overall score is also not high. The GRE test is great for those candidates who come from diversity and non-quant-focused backgrounds.

To your point, a 750(old edition) is of course better than a 330. A 330 is more like a 730. A 335 is more like a 750. And adcoms are indifferent between a 335 or a 750 if everything else is equal. In the final rounds at competitive schools that are more geared toward applicants with high GMAT GRE scores, a 750 (GMAT OE) and a 335(GRE) have the same chance.

Between a score of 320(GRE) or 650(GMAT old edition), neither case would be favorable for someone from a crowded pool (because there will always be someone better). And for the non-crowded demographics, it really comes down to scores in each section, quantitative strengths, and strength of profile. I also have a hypothesis that candidates with weaker quant skills tend to apply with GRE scores. Adcoms will prefer those GRE candidates who have impressive diversity aspect but not necessarily a strong quantitative aprtitude over applicants from crowded pools applying with average GREs.  Also why GRE averages tend to signal a low number compared to GMAT. I would add here that the percentage composition of competitive MBA cohorts is created such that STEM and finance are about 2/3 rd of the class and make up a large portion of the population on the normal distribution. 

Therefore the Adcoms do not need to think so critically about GRE vs GMAT as a decision factor for similarly positioned profiles. 

Best wishes
Aanchal Sahni (INSEAD MBA alum, former INSEAD MBA admissions interviewer)
Founder, MBAGuideConsulting 
LinkedIn |WEBSITE: https://mbaguideconsulting.com/| Message(WA): +91 9971200927| email- mbaguideconsulting@gmail.com­

­
Hi Aanchal!

I agree with what you have mentioned.

I just want to mention that I am not comparing the chances of getting an admit or a reject solely bases on GMAT or GRE scores. What I am trying to communicate through my post is that if all other factors are kept constant, the person will have relatively higher chances of an admit if he submits a significantly higher GMAT score than if he submits a significantly higher GRE score. The basis of reasoning is that business schools want to increase their avg GRE and GMAT scores. And, a significantly higher GMAT score will increase the avg GMAT score of the whole batch significantly but a significantly higher GRE score would not change the class average significantly.

Similarly, if a person has an extraordinary profile, a lower than avergae GRE would be preferred over lower than average GMAT. Why? Because lower GMAT score could significantly bring down the class average but a lower GRE score woulf not have as much potent impact on the overall class average.

I hope this clears that I am not indicating the admission team's pyschological preference of one test over the other but logistical and quantitative reasoning for an adcom member to pick up one test over the other. After all, at the end of the day, average scores do matter!

To illustrate my case in point, below are Booth's stats as per US News' latest data:
  • GMAT range (10-90 percentile): 690-770
  • Avg GMAT: 728
  • GRE Q range (10-90 percentile): 158-169
  • GRE Q average: 163
690 on GMAT is around the 85th percentile whereas 158 in GRE Q is at the 55th percentile. Though GRE and GMAT percentiles can not be compared one-to-one, it is to be noted that the range for GRE percentiles is 55-95 and for GMAT it is 85-99. 

 
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This is why you should not take GRE [#permalink] This is why you should not take GRE   17 May 2024, 06:05
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TargetKellogg2024 wrote:
Quote:
 TargetKellogg2024 I understand what you are trying to do but the context around WHO can sail through easily with a GRE is important here. I do not want the applicants to get confused and take home the message that one test is better than the other.  To put it simply, applicants must pick the test that helps them achieve the highest possible percentile in quant if the overall score is also not high. The GRE test is great for those candidates who come from diversity and non-quant-focused backgrounds.

To your point, a 750(old edition) is of course better than a 330. A 330 is more like a 730. A 335 is more like a 750. And adcoms are indifferent between a 335 or a 750 if everything else is equal. In the final rounds at competitive schools that are more geared toward applicants with high GMAT GRE scores, a 750 (GMAT OE) and a 335(GRE) have the same chance.

Between a score of 320(GRE) or 650(GMAT old edition), neither case would be favorable for someone from a crowded pool (because there will always be someone better). And for the non-crowded demographics, it really comes down to scores in each section, quantitative strengths, and strength of profile. I also have a hypothesis that candidates with weaker quant skills tend to apply with GRE scores. Adcoms will prefer those GRE candidates who have impressive diversity aspect but not necessarily a strong quantitative aprtitude over applicants from crowded pools applying with average GREs.  Also why GRE averages tend to signal a low number compared to GMAT. I would add here that the percentage composition of competitive MBA cohorts is created such that STEM and finance are about 2/3 rd of the class and make up a large portion of the population on the normal distribution. 

Therefore the Adcoms do not need to think so critically about GRE vs GMAT as a decision factor for similarly positioned profiles. 

Best wishes
Aanchal Sahni (INSEAD MBA alum, former INSEAD MBA admissions interviewer)
Founder, MBAGuideConsulting 
LinkedIn |WEBSITE: https://mbaguideconsulting.com/| Message(WA): +91 9971200927| email- mbaguideconsulting@gmail.com­

­
Hi Aanchal!

I agree with what you have mentioned.

I just want to mention that I am not comparing the chances of getting an admit or a reject solely bases on GMAT or GRE scores. What I am trying to communicate through my post is that if all other factors are kept constant, the person will have relatively higher chances of an admit if he submits a significantly higher GMAT score than if he submits a significantly higher GRE score. The basis of reasoning is that business schools want to increase their avg GRE and GMAT scores. And, a significantly higher GMAT score will increase the avg GMAT score of the whole batch significantly but a significantly higher GRE score would not change the class average significantly.

Similarly, if a person has an extraordinary profile, a lower than avergae GRE would be preferred over lower than average GMAT. Why? Because lower GMAT score could significantly bring down the class average but a lower GRE score woulf not have as much potent impact on the overall class average.

I hope this clears that I am not indicating the admission team's pyschological preference of one test over the other but logistical and quantitative reasoning for an adcom member to pick up one test over the other. After all, at the end of the day, average scores do matter!

To illustrate my case in point, below are Booth's stats as per US News' latest data:


  • GMAT range (10-90 percentile): 690-770
  • Avg GMAT: 728
  • GRE Q range (10-90 percentile): 158-169
  • GRE Q average: 163
690 on GMAT is around the 85th percentile whereas 158 in GRE Q is at the 55th percentile. Though GRE and GMAT percentiles can not be compared one-to-one, it is to be noted that the range for GRE percentiles is 55-95 and for GMAT it is 85-99. 



 

­@TargetKellogg2024  challenged you in the spirit of good discussion. Your efforts are appreciated, keep it up! :)

Best wishes
Aanchal Sahni (INSEAD MBA alum, former INSEAD MBA admissions interviewer)
Founder, MBAGuideConsulting 
LinkedIn |WEBSITE: https://mbaguideconsulting.com/| Message(WA): +91 9971200927| email- mbaguideconsulting@gmail.com­
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This is why you should not take GRE [#permalink]
17 May 2024, 06:05