H/W/S selection criteria

Thanks Steel for pointing out the floors in my logic and for your perspective. Will be contacting my recommenders over the next couple of days to see if they're up for it!

I just read through all the posts in this thread (taking a break from essays) and there's some great discussion here on brand and fit with the top schools. In terms of the original question about selection criteria though, my feeling is that anyone who is around all the averages (GPA, GMAT, WE etc.) for H/S/W have at least a chance, but it's anyone guess after that. Despite some good theories about how prestige of undergrad or employer, it seems like there's really no way of knowing just how that affects an individual applicant. Maybe some more current applications can keep this excellent thread going.

That is a great post MBAGirl! As a 28 year old applying to HBS, it is a little disappointing to read the reason for a bias to the younger student. But the rest of the information is excellent. +1.

wow, blast from the past reading some of these posts...

great post MBAgirl

Great observations MBAgirl.

I do have to comment on the HBS though. I think that they do have a trend of going younger and younger and perhaps they try to add diversity to their class by admitting students of different backgrounds. However, I know about 5 people who got into HBS last year and they all came from a finance background. All of them had done either IB/S&T/PWM at marquee firms. Only one had gotten into Stanford. Although, I understand that the handful of people I know are not indicative of the HBS population as a whole, I do think HBS admits more people with good, solid finance backgrounds and are not as picky as Stanford about ECs and non-profit pre-MBA careers. This could stem from the fact that HBS is a lot bigger than Stanford GSB. As a result, it does not necessarily target a certain profile.

I know one of my friends who got into s this year. He had great GPA, great recos from a nobel winner and great esseys, but relatively low gmat (quite low) and less than one years of work experience. I guess essays does that for him. Its truly hard to what exactly those schools look in you!

@ pandeyrav...a hws degree is not immunity from being fired for a major screw up on the job. the statements are therfore not inappropriate.

This is a very interesting thread and I was curious about some earlier posts regarding people who are clear admits to HSW because of their "wow" factor. I'd like to dispel those ideas, as I'm one of those from an ivy league undergrad, working for one of the top ibanks, with olympic experience, having "saved Africa" for the past 10 years, with leadership experience up the wazoo, but my chances according to consultants aren't very good.

Why? Because I took an additional two years during college for my athletics, which set me back two years when I joined my bank, so even though I only have 3Yrs of work experience I am 27, an old man. My GPA and GMAT are not ridiculously high, but they are within the 25-75 percentile range for HSW. Those factors combined make me a mediocre candidate. So I've got the "wow" factor to the nth degree, but my chances are just as bad as anyone's whose profile deviates from certain limits that matter to schools, like age.

I dated someone who went to HBS last year who was quite ordinary: ivy undergrad with average GPA and GMAT, boutique MC firm, highly exaggerated community service leadership, plain Jane. But not one card was too far afield with what HBS was looking for, so she was accepted.

In essence, I think that any "wow" factor is worthless if you do not fit within the limits for ALL factors that these schools consider important. If any factor is beyond the limit, it's a reason to ding you. Those that get in have all of their ducks lined up and have no reason to get dinged.

My view is that in the end it comes down to adcoms looking for reasons to ding candidates, not reasons to accept candidates.

I agree that it is probably more accurate to say adcoms are looking for reasons to ding, not reasons to accept.

From the earlier discussion, I am skeptical that it is worth applying to Harvard or Stanford if you are 28 or over unless you're an exceptional military person or science PhD. They literally accept no 28+ people outside of this, and it just distracts you from applying to other places where you actually have a chance. The application fee isn't that big in the grand scheme, but there is an emotional investment. I am all for chasing long shot pipe dreams but you need to at least have a shot and I see/hear too many people chasing this one that don't because of age. Stubborn ambition certainly has its place, e.g. it could be great for an entrepreneur, and perhaps some people can learn something from investing time and effort into an experience that's a guaranteed failure, but I'd rather focus on things that have at least a small chance of success.

Sounds like something I posted. This is the reason(age) why I chose not to apply to HBS even though it was the reason I started the business school journey in the first place. Sometimes, I have regrets and wonder if I shouldn't put an application together before R2 deadline. But, I know if I do I will take away precious time and energy from schools were my odds are more favorable.

Wonderful post. Thank you.

This is interesting to me. I have often heard that two years work experience is a minimum for applying to a lot of these schools. However, I will be 27 by the time I have two years experience. Let me tell you about my profile and see what you think. I graduated with my BS at 25 because I took two years off and volunteered for a Non-profit in Mexico. This means I will be 27 before I have two years of work experience post graduation. I have not yet taken my official GMAT but have consistently scored in the 700's in my practice tests. I have a decent GPA and what I consider above average work experience. Am I better off applying to these top schools with less experience while I am younger, or more experience when I am older?

I work in banking and have lots of friends that applied to H/W/S. The bottom line is this: if you're vanilla in terms of ethnic diversity and work experience, you need a high GMAT + High GPA + Super brand names + flawless execution to get in, especially at H. If you're 27, then you had better have fantastic stories or a hobby that's comparable to Antarctic glacier skiing/ white shark surfing. There's no getting around the bias towards high numbers and brand names. It's the sad cold reality.

Don't you think there should be a bias toward brand names? I screwed up my undergrad gpa royally, and really didn't have much of a chance with HBS as a result. However, if someone worked his/her tail off in HS, got in and enrolled at a top tier college, demonstrated excellence at that college, went on to a blue chip job, and did well on the GMAT, why shouldn't that person get in? To do that, we're talking about needing immense talent, or a great amount of hard work, or both. These are qualities that all top schools should want. I don't think the reality is sad or cold; rather I think of these applicants as all stars in their respective fields thus far, and that they earned their fair shake at the top b-schools.

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