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# In all, fifteen or more Greenwich Capital employees

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Joined: 26 Mar 2013
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Re: In all, fifteen or more Greenwich Capital employees [#permalink]

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19 Sep 2016, 01:35
mikemcgarry wrote:
Dear Mo2men,

I'm happy to respond.

The "with" + noun + participle structure is not automatically wrong. There's a subtle distinction that I explain in this blog:
[url="http://magoosh.com/gmat/2015/with-noun-participle-on-gmat-sentence-correction/"]with + [noun] + [participle] on GMAT Sentence Correction[/url]

Does this make sense?
Mike

Dear Mike,
I would like to expand little further about another adverbial phrase "because of". In Magoosh idiom book, it was mentioned in page 47 that "because of+ NOUN+ VERBing" is 100% wrong. However, I found a SC in GMATprep 1 that breaks the rule mentioned in the book.

on-account-of-a-law-passed-in-1993-making-it-a-crime-70502.html?fl=similar

Because of a law passed in 1933 making it a crime punishable by imprisonment for a United States citizen to hold gold in the form of bullion or coins, immigrants found that on arrival in the United States they had to surrender all of the gold they had brought with them.

How can I differentiate between the right and wrong answers with "because of+ NOUN+ VERBing" ? Have you set any great rules like "with ...." modification in your blog?

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Re: In all, fifteen or more Greenwich Capital employees [#permalink]

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19 Sep 2016, 12:46
Mo2men wrote:
Dear Mike,
I would like to expand little further about another adverbial phrase "because of". In Magoosh idiom book, it was mentioned in page 47 that "because of+ NOUN+ VERBing" is 100% wrong. However, I found a SC in GMATprep 1 that breaks the rule mentioned in the book.

on-account-of-a-law-passed-in-1993-making-it-a-crime-70502.html?fl=similar

Because of a law passed in 1933 making it a crime punishable by imprisonment for a United States citizen to hold gold in the form of bullion or coins, immigrants found that on arrival in the United States they had to surrender all of the gold they had brought with them.

How can I differentiate between the right and wrong answers with "because of+ NOUN+ VERBing" ? Have you set any great rules like "with ...." modification in your blog?

Dear Mo2men,

I'm happy to respond. I think that statement of ours in the GMAT Idiom book is too black & white: we write that book several years ago, and I would like to make a couple changes on subtle points such as this.

Having said that, the sentence you found does not exactly break the rule, because the participle used is "passed," a passive past participle, one that does not imply an action. As you may recall, present participles are active and past participles are passive: only the former implies an action.

Unfortunately, there's no substitute for understand logic and rhetoric. Normally, the structure "because" + [full clause] is the way to highlight an action, and using "because of" + [noun] + [present participle] usually sounds compromised in that case.

Here's a rule that works a great deal of the time: when you have [preposition] + [noun] + [participle], simply drop the participle and see whether the sentence still makes sense. In this OA, we would get:

Because of a law, immigrants found that on arrival in the United States they had to surrender all of the gold they had brought with them.

That is essentially correct. The immigrants had to give up their gold because of this law. Yes. Of course, it would be helpful for us to have more detail about the law, and participial phrase provides this detail. If we remove the participle and all that missing is extra detail, and the fundamental logical structure of the sentence is still valid, then then entire sentence with the participle is often correct. If we remove the participle and the sentence doesn't logically make sense any more, that's when we have a problem.

That's not a foolproof rule, because sometimes removing the participle makes a valid sentence, yet the whole sentence is not best way to phrase something. It also depends on rhetorical focus. A preposition, by its very nature, takes a noun as its object, and the "because of" compound preposition is designed to attribute the cause to a noun. If the noun really is the cause, then "because of" is perfect: here, the "law" really is the cause of the situation. If the action really is the cause, then sticking the action in a participle modifying the noun following a preposition is not appropriate: we need a full clause if the action is the cause of something.

Does all this make sense?
Mike
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Mike McGarry
Magoosh Test Prep

Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire. — William Butler Yeats (1865 – 1939)

Kudos [?]: 9291 [0], given: 117

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Re: In all, fifteen or more Greenwich Capital employees [#permalink]

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16 Sep 2017, 22:27
Quote:
2) The US Bill of Rights has been framed to protect individuals from the federal government

Quote:
As this example shows, the use of the past perfect delves deeply into questions of meaning, of what the deep intention of the author. These are the kinds of questions that the official GMAT SC questions regularly explore, and student who simply skate along the surface looking a grammar rules are continually befuddled by such questions. A good GMAT SC question used grammar and logic and rhetoric in a combine effort to produce a deep coherent meaning. If you appreciate a sentence at that level, then you are are on your way to GMAT SC mastery.

Hi mikemcgarry

Hope you are doing good
I have a doubt and need your help to understand the same

The example that you shared (I have quoted it above) uses Present perfect tense. But in the explanation you referred to the tense as Past Perfect

Is my understanding correct or am I reading something wrong? Please correct me if I have understood the tenses incorrectly in the example you shared above

Thanks.
_________________

Kudos [?]: 63 [0], given: 190

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Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Posts: 4647

Kudos [?]: 9291 [0], given: 117

Re: In all, fifteen or more Greenwich Capital employees [#permalink]

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18 Sep 2017, 08:27
pikolo2510 wrote:
Quote:
2) The US Bill of Rights has been framed to protect individuals from the federal government

Quote:
As this example shows, the use of the past perfect delves deeply into questions of meaning, of what the deep intention of the author. These are the kinds of questions that the official GMAT SC questions regularly explore, and student who simply skate along the surface looking a grammar rules are continually befuddled by such questions. A good GMAT SC question used grammar and logic and rhetoric in a combine effort to produce a deep coherent meaning. If you appreciate a sentence at that level, then you are are on your way to GMAT SC mastery.

Hi mikemcgarry

Hope you are doing good
I have a doubt and need your help to understand the same

The example that you shared (I have quoted it above) uses Present perfect tense. But in the explanation you referred to the tense as Past Perfect

Is my understanding correct or am I reading something wrong? Please correct me if I have understood the tenses incorrectly in the example you shared above

Thanks.

Dear pikolo2510,

That was an oversight on my part, a mistake--I corrected it in that post. Thank you for pointing this out. You are 100% correct.

Mike
_________________

Mike McGarry
Magoosh Test Prep

Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire. — William Butler Yeats (1865 – 1939)

Kudos [?]: 9291 [0], given: 117

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Re: In all, fifteen or more Greenwich Capital employees [#permalink]

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18 Sep 2017, 13:24
guerrero25 wrote:
In all, fifteen or more Greenwich Capital employees have been tied to insider trading while at the fund, with four to plead guilty and more likely.

(A) In all, fifteen or more Greenwich Capital employees were tied to insider trading while at the fund, with four to plead guilty and more likely.

(B) All told, fifteen or more Greenwich Capital employees had been tied to insider trading while at the fund, with four having pleaded guilty and more likely.

(C) All told, at least fifteen Greenwich Capital employees have been tied to insider trading while at the fund; four have pleaded guilty and more are likely to do so.

(D) In all, at least fifteen Greenwich Capital employees have been tied to insider trading while at the fund; with four having pleaded guilty and more are likely to do so.

(E) All told, at least fifteen Greenwich Capital employees have been tied to insider trading while at the fund; four have pleaded guilty and more are likely.

Answer should be C. to do so = to plea guilty.
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Re: In all, fifteen or more Greenwich Capital employees   [#permalink] 18 Sep 2017, 13:24

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