misterlev wrote:
It doesn't really seem insightful or valuable to say that Detroit is not as good as New York, Chicago, San Francisco, or Los Angeles. Nobody is aruging that it is one of the top 4 cities in the country. I think your point about those big cities misses the mark in two major ways. The first is that, regardless of whether or not you delude yourself about how great banking is, people are working a lot of hours. Call it 60 or 70 or 80 or 90, but my friends who live and work in NYC spend time in the office and in their beds. The second problem is that you mistake the draw of culture for the draw of money. If people could make 250 grand a year at 23 in Toledo or Omaha or Billings, they would live there.
P.S.
The Red Wings have been the best team in hockey for the last 15 years, the Pistons have made the Eastern Conference Finals for the last 6 years, and Detroit has more musical history and depth than almost any place in the country.
We also have a Wolfgang Puck restaurant!
It's not that important to me... I live in a suburb and I don't often go to Detroit. However, I don't think you can malign it as such a terrible place. All big cities have crime, and all big cities have economic fluctuations. The unemployment in Detroit is directly related to the auto industry, and the murder rate and the rate of flight are directly related to unemployment, not some inherent flaws in the city or its people. Hopefully everybody on GMAT Club will get into H/S/W and figure out how to improve our domestic auto manufacturers!
I think there are some assumptions here that are inherently incorrect and/or misguided. As terp06 mentioned, a lot of people would not be willing to move to Toledo, Omaha or Billings for the same money, even if their buying power is substantially greater in those places. The reasons have been detailed but they include access to friends, family, restaurants, cultural events, a good international airport, direct flights to popular destinations, and very significantly other young professionals.
Yes, I know that Wolfgang Puck has been franchising out, it's kind of an embarrassment actually, but goes to prove my point. Some people can be really pleased with a "Bar and Grill" version of fine dining (I think that's what his restaurant in Detroit is called) but let's not confuse it with Spago, Chinois or Cut (ate here last week, unbelievable what they do with red meat and wine).
The Red Wings are another prime example - people are definitely crazy about them around Detroit, but does anyone else in the nation care? Didn't hockey get it's TV contract canceled? And yes, I do love Motown music, I really do; but the only big act in the last 40 years has been Boys to Men! It's not really a hotbed for music, compared to the nightly live music you'll find in LA or NY, or places like Seattle or Portland. Detroit basketball has been good - not everyone can have the Lakers
. To me, a second rate Wolfgang Puck franchise, hockey and Motown are all great examples of the point I was making. Detroit has a great and relevant past, but the current reality for the city is high unemployment, high crime and murder rates, vacant homes, and it is symbolic of urban blight. Even if the car industry could be fixed (not a given really) it's not a top choice for people with MBAs, and that's not just my opinion; and if one of the big 3 truly fails, look out it's going to get a lot worse.
Really, I'm sorry I'm forced to prove my point by talking about Detroit. Truth be told I'd rather live there than some of the other places we've talked about because it does have a pretty big and well served international airport (not like LA or NY, but better way better than Toledo, et. al.). Still, I'd consider it a huge personal sacrifice to take a job in any of those cities (and many others) and it's hard to imagine what type of other inducements I would require to choose it over LA or SF (sometimes there's no choice of course). If I could have every other week off and 50% higher pay maybe? Don't know, it's hard to envision, but again everyone has their own set of preferences. Since my choices seem to be on trial here, I'll give a brief list of what I find important.
1. I love food and wine. There's a huge grand-canyon-like gap between the best locales (SF, NY, LA, Vegas, NO, perhaps CHI) and other places. Huge. Really big. I'd gladly work 2 extra hours every day so that once or twice a week I can hit one of the dozens and dozens of top restaurants available around SF (to me the best), LA (a revolution in the last 5 years, and pretty good even before that) or NY (more top places than anywhere else); and Las Vegas of course, but the equation is a little different there.
2. I love Napa Valley. I love Vegas. Among the reasons why SF and LA are much more appealing for me than NY. If I figure out on a Friday afternoon that I'm free for the weekend, there are flights every 1/2 hour from both SF and LA. I also love the coast highway in Malibu, the misty mornings in Carmel and Monterey, clean air and sunshine in La Jolla (San Diego) and getting away for the weekend in Santa Barbara; all accessible via last minute flights or drives. Some people feel the same way about the Hamptons. It's a personal preference, although I'd say that love for Vegas is almost universal among fresh MBA grads.
3. I don't really like the cold. Spent 3 years in Ann Arbor so I've learned the difference between visiting snow (as in a ski weekend or something) and living in snow (as in scraping the ice of your windows and being wet up to your knees after walking in slush). Don't like it. Chicago will never be high on my list because of this (lake effect snow - yuck), same with Boston. LA and SF obviously have world renowned climates. Some people love to experience all four seasons (I'm down with that) but it's hard to imagine that why anyone would like living in snow (and snow's good friend slush - makes me shudder just thinking abut it).
4. My friends and family are largely in California. Obviously everyone else has friends and family elsewhere. But here's something to consider, I can imagine living in NY because a whole lot of my b-school friends will be heading there (the same will be true for all of you at top schools). Really, that's a very big thing, and not just from my school, but lots of other similar students from other schools. Places like Seattle have some appeal for this reason even though it doesn't have a lot of the other elements I value. And if I'm in NY, for example, I can call up my friends and say "hey, come out for a visit this weekend." There are plenty of flights so it's convenient, and lot of reasons why people will want to visit. My best friend is in Detroit (as mentioned before) and it's been impossible for him to get friends out to visit. I'll be scheduling a visit around a football game this fall (I love Michigan football), but if I didn't have existing ties to the area, it really wouldn't be very appealing. Think that over before deciding to settle in Billings or Toledo or wherever.
Again, my argument is more about the factors that go into quality of life. Some people will indeed value shorter hours above all else; other may prefer a faster job track or easy access to friends and peers; while still others may want 350 days of sunshine or world class shopping (doesn't matter much to me, but you won't really find it outside of NY, SF, LA and CHI). I'd be interested to hear why some people favor some of the other destinations. No need to really argue for NY, SF, LA, CHI, because MBAs flood these places year after year.