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Questions regarding retaking the GMAT and admissions for schools in NC

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Questions regarding retaking the GMAT and admissions for schools in NC  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Feb 2018, 17:32
Hey all, first of all, thanks to all for participating in and maintaining this incredibly useful community.

I would love any advice and perspective on my situation.

Background: Princeton undergrad 2006 (3.6 GPA) in public policy/international affairs and finance; then two years as a research assistant at a policy think tank in DC; then JD from NYU 2011 (3.4); short gigs as an attorney at the NY State Atty General's office and the 3rd Circuit Court in Philly before going back for an LLM (specializing in international arbitration) from Miami in 2013 (3.8); then close to two years at a large international law firm (non-partner track) in DC before a combination of the position's relatively short term nature and a string of family/personal/health issues forced me to step away from working for a little over two years until now (all resolved now, finally). In that time I've been able to do very little work aside from some volunteer legal/politically-oriented things, which may not be appropriate to include on my resume.

Goals: Have long been interested in expanding my skills (particularly quantitative/data analysis - I was much more quantitatively oriented before moving to law) and gaining consulting and marketing experience. I also need a career reset at this point due to my long work gap, so business school seems like the right idea for me. Due to other personal reasons, I am focusing on North Carolina schools (so, ideally, Duke, UNC, or NC State).

Questions: I recently took the GMAT and scored 740 (Q47, V44), and only 5 on IR. I know I can do better on Q - made a bad timing error and didn't finish the last 4 questions. That being on my mind then led to my low IR score (I usually scored 7 or 8 on practice tests). How important is it to improve these scores for admissions to these three schools in particular? How badly will the IR (and Q) score hurt? I don't have much of a sense of how these schools use it. I have signed up to retake in two weeks because I think I can improve on both Q and IR with minimal study. I will not receive a score in time for my NC State application, however. I don't know how much to be concerned about this because NC State allows you to waive the GMAT altogether if you have a graduate degree. I assume that if I want to be competitive for Duke and UNC I will need to raise those scores (luckily there is still time left to retake and submit for those schools, though obviously it will be the last round at this point). Also, I assume that if I want to have a shot at, say, McKinsey's Charlotte office, I will have to be at Duke or UNC - does that sound right?

Or, alternatively, am I worrying too much about all of this and am I OK with my current score?

Would appreciate any perspectives and advice!
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Questions regarding retaking the GMAT and admissions for schools in NC  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Feb 2018, 19:30
2
Joamiq wrote:
Hey all, first of all, thanks to all for participating in and maintaining this incredibly useful community.

I would love any advice and perspective on my situation.

Background: Princeton undergrad 2006 (3.6 GPA) in public policy/international affairs and finance; then two years as a research assistant at a policy think tank in DC; then JD from NYU 2011 (3.4); short gigs as an attorney at the NY State Atty General's office and the 3rd Circuit Court in Philly before going back for an LLM (specializing in international arbitration) from Miami in 2013 (3.8); then close to two years at a large international law firm (non-partner track) in DC before a combination of the position's relatively short term nature and a string of family/personal/health issues forced me to step away from working for a little over two years until now (all resolved now, finally). In that time I've been able to do very little work aside from some volunteer legal/politically-oriented things, which may not be appropriate to include on my resume.

Goals: Have long been interested in expanding my skills (particularly quantitative/data analysis - I was much more quantitatively oriented before moving to law) and gaining consulting and marketing experience. I also need a career reset at this point due to my long work gap, so business school seems like the right idea for me. Due to other personal reasons, I am focusing on North Carolina schools (so, ideally, Duke, UNC, or NC State).

Questions: I recently took the GMAT and scored 740 (Q47, V44), and only 5 on IR. I know I can do better on Q - made a bad timing error and didn't finish the last 4 questions. That being on my mind then led to my low IR score (I usually scored 7 or 8 on practice tests). How important is it to improve these scores for admissions to these three schools in particular? How badly will the IR (and Q) score hurt? I don't have much of a sense of how these schools use it. I have signed up to retake in two weeks because I think I can improve on both Q and IR with minimal study. I will not receive a score in time for my NC State application, however. I don't know how much to be concerned about this because NC State allows you to waive the GMAT altogether if you have a graduate degree. I assume that if I want to be competitive for Duke and UNC I will need to raise those scores (luckily there is still time left to retake and submit for those schools, though obviously it will be the last round at this point). Also, I assume that if I want to have a shot at, say, McKinsey's Charlotte office, I will have to be at Duke or UNC - does that sound right?

Or, alternatively, am I worrying too much about all of this and am I OK with my current score?

Would appreciate any perspectives and advice!


Hey Joamiq I'm not a student yet (Round 1 admit), but I think you're OK with your current score. It is quite above all the averages (UNC median-700, Duke- 710 I believe, NC State-626). Duke is also pretty well known for caring less about GMAT scores than other top schools and taking a more holistic approach and that'll likely be your most competitive school. However, if you're already kind of set to re-take it and think you can get a higher score without too much effort it maybe can't hurt. I wouldn't spend time on GMAT studying to the detriment of your essays and applications though.

I think you've checked the GMAT box and the bigger things that will potentially hurt your chances will be applying Round 3 (UNC's Round 4), that you already are very educated, and/or your lack of work history over the last two years. A higher GMAT score maybe maybe can help with Round 3 at a school like UNC or NC State that might help them with their average with most of the class already in place. I think the big things are to convince the three schools that 1) you have a really strong "why MBA/why now?" after a law degree and LLM and try and make sure they don't think you have a lack of focus or are collecting a bunch of degrees. Not sure the expanding your skills will cut it IMO 2) your commitment to NC so all three but especially NC State and maybe UNC don't think they are your backups and then 3) make a compelling case that you're employable after business school. The gaps in work history will likely relate the most to employability and admission teams want to make sure people's resumes, career goals, etc. can help them get a job afterward. Also, make sure to sell why you are "Team Fuqua" with Duke big time. Not sure if you are currently in NC, but if you are i would definitely make visits if you haven't already. This is just my opinion from what I've picked up on the forum. You might re-post in the "Ask Admissions Consultant" forum and probably do the free 30-minute calls to get a sense of your profile and your strategy even if you don't hire an admissions consultant. I'd also try and get advice from them on using the optional essays to explain the work history and possibly your advanced degrees already.

P.S. If Miami for your LLM is UM (no clue if Miami of Ohio even has a law school) GO CANES!
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Re: Questions regarding retaking the GMAT and admissions for schools in NC  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Feb 2018, 10:39
1
ThadGA08 wrote:
Joamiq wrote:
Hey all, first of all, thanks to all for participating in and maintaining this incredibly useful community.

I would love any advice and perspective on my situation.

Background: Princeton undergrad 2006 (3.6 GPA) in public policy/international affairs and finance; then two years as a research assistant at a policy think tank in DC; then JD from NYU 2011 (3.4); short gigs as an attorney at the NY State Atty General's office and the 3rd Circuit Court in Philly before going back for an LLM (specializing in international arbitration) from Miami in 2013 (3.8); then close to two years at a large international law firm (non-partner track) in DC before a combination of the position's relatively short term nature and a string of family/personal/health issues forced me to step away from working for a little over two years until now (all resolved now, finally). In that time I've been able to do very little work aside from some volunteer legal/politically-oriented things, which may not be appropriate to include on my resume.

Goals: Have long been interested in expanding my skills (particularly quantitative/data analysis - I was much more quantitatively oriented before moving to law) and gaining consulting and marketing experience. I also need a career reset at this point due to my long work gap, so business school seems like the right idea for me. Due to other personal reasons, I am focusing on North Carolina schools (so, ideally, Duke, UNC, or NC State).

Questions: I recently took the GMAT and scored 740 (Q47, V44), and only 5 on IR. I know I can do better on Q - made a bad timing error and didn't finish the last 4 questions. That being on my mind then led to my low IR score (I usually scored 7 or 8 on practice tests). How important is it to improve these scores for admissions to these three schools in particular? How badly will the IR (and Q) score hurt? I don't have much of a sense of how these schools use it. I have signed up to retake in two weeks because I think I can improve on both Q and IR with minimal study. I will not receive a score in time for my NC State application, however. I don't know how much to be concerned about this because NC State allows you to waive the GMAT altogether if you have a graduate degree. I assume that if I want to be competitive for Duke and UNC I will need to raise those scores (luckily there is still time left to retake and submit for those schools, though obviously it will be the last round at this point). Also, I assume that if I want to have a shot at, say, McKinsey's Charlotte office, I will have to be at Duke or UNC - does that sound right?

Or, alternatively, am I worrying too much about all of this and am I OK with my current score?

Would appreciate any perspectives and advice!


Hey Joamiq I'm not a student yet (Round 1 admit), but I think you're OK with your current score. It is quite above all the averages (UNC median-700, Duke- 710 I believe, NC State-626). Duke is also pretty well known for caring less about GMAT scores than other top schools and taking a more holistic approach and that'll likely be your most competitive school. However, if you're already kind of set to re-take it and think you can get a higher score without too much effort it maybe can't hurt. I wouldn't spend time on GMAT studying to the detriment of your essays and applications though.

I think you've checked the GMAT box and the bigger things that will potentially hurt your chances will be applying Round 3 (UNC's Round 4), that you already are very educated, and/or your lack of work history over the last two years. A higher GMAT score maybe maybe can help with Round 3 at a school like UNC or NC State that might help them with their average with most of the class already in place. I think the big things are to convince the three schools that 1) you have a really strong "why MBA/why now?" after a law degree and LLM and try and make sure they don't think you have a lack of focus or are collecting a bunch of degrees. Not sure the expanding your skills will cut it IMO 2) your commitment to NC so all three but especially NC State and maybe UNC don't think they are your backups and then 3) make a compelling case that you're employable after business school. The gaps in work history will likely relate the most to employability and admission teams want to make sure people's resumes, career goals, etc. can help them get a job afterward. Also, make sure to sell why you are "Team Fuqua" with Duke big time. Not sure if you are currently in NC, but if you are i would definitely make visits if you haven't already. This is just my opinion from what I've picked up on the forum. You might re-post in the "Ask Admissions Consultant" forum and probably do the free 30-minute calls to get a sense of your profile and your strategy even if you don't hire an admissions consultant. I'd also try and get advice from them on using the optional essays to explain the work history and possibly your advanced degrees already.

P.S. If Miami for your LLM is UM (no clue if Miami of Ohio even has a law school) GO CANES!


Well said ThadGA08,

Joamiq,
Short, candida and brutal
1) Score is good. No retake needed.
2) Low work history will hurt you very badly. You NEED to show both your employability and Work-related accomplishments.
3) 2 years of gap will need to be explained (Assuming you can cross 2..)
4) Goals are unclear. Neither is expanding your skills a goal, nor is "career reset" without details a goal. If anything, the mention of "career reset" may actually end up hurting you pretty badly.

Good luck man. Wish I could give you some short term advice, but I have no suggestion other than ask you to work for 2-3 years and then reconsider things
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Re: Questions regarding retaking the GMAT and admissions for schools in NC  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Feb 2018, 12:50
1
Joamiq wrote:
Hey all, first of all, thanks to all for participating in and maintaining this incredibly useful community.
I think your Princeton undergrad and 3.6 gpa along with the 740 GMAT will be the lead story on your application with all the NC schools and so I would focus more on making sure your APPLICATION and ESSAYS are equally strong. If you submit stellar applications with those good stats- good things will happen for you. And I speak as someone who is former adcom and has close ties to NC-- particularly UNC Kenan-Flagler. Focus on building a strong application with this as your base. If you would like to get more specific insight on your case - reach out to us at this link for a free consult: https://stratusadmissionscounseling.com ... b-visitor/
I would love any advice and perspective on my situation.

Background: Princeton undergrad 2006 (3.6 GPA) in public policy/international affairs and finance; then two years as a research assistant at a policy think tank in DC; then JD from NYU 2011 (3.4); short gigs as an attorney at the NY State Atty General's office and the 3rd Circuit Court in Philly before going back for an LLM (specializing in international arbitration) from Miami in 2013 (3.8); then close to two years at a large international law firm (non-partner track) in DC before a combination of the position's relatively short term nature and a string of family/personal/health issues forced me to step away from working for a little over two years until now (all resolved now, finally). In that time I've been able to do very little work aside from some volunteer legal/politically-oriented things, which may not be appropriate to include on my resume.

Goals: Have long been interested in expanding my skills (particularly quantitative/data analysis - I was much more quantitatively oriented before moving to law) and gaining consulting and marketing experience. I also need a career reset at this point due to my long work gap, so business school seems like the right idea for me. Due to other personal reasons, I am focusing on North Carolina schools (so, ideally, Duke, UNC, or NC State).

Questions: I recently took the GMAT and scored 740 (Q47, V44), and only 5 on IR. I know I can do better on Q - made a bad timing error and didn't finish the last 4 questions. That being on my mind then led to my low IR score (I usually scored 7 or 8 on practice tests). How important is it to improve these scores for admissions to these three schools in particular? How badly will the IR (and Q) score hurt? I don't have much of a sense of how these schools use it. I have signed up to retake in two weeks because I think I can improve on both Q and IR with minimal study. I will not receive a score in time for my NC State application, however. I don't know how much to be concerned about this because NC State allows you to waive the GMAT altogether if you have a graduate degree. I assume that if I want to be competitive for Duke and UNC I will need to raise those scores (luckily there is still time left to retake and submit for those schools, though obviously it will be the last round at this point). Also, I assume that if I want to have a shot at, say, McKinsey's Charlotte office, I will have to be at Duke or UNC - does that sound right?

Or, alternatively, am I worrying too much about all of this and am I OK with my current score?

Would appreciate any perspectives and advice!

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Re: Questions regarding retaking the GMAT and admissions for schools in NC  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Feb 2018, 22:11
1
ThadGA08 wrote:
Joamiq wrote:
Hey all, first of all, thanks to all for participating in and maintaining this incredibly useful community.

I would love any advice and perspective on my situation.

Background: Princeton undergrad 2006 (3.6 GPA) in public policy/international affairs and finance; then two years as a research assistant at a policy think tank in DC; then JD from NYU 2011 (3.4); short gigs as an attorney at the NY State Atty General's office and the 3rd Circuit Court in Philly before going back for an LLM (specializing in international arbitration) from Miami in 2013 (3.8); then close to two years at a large international law firm (non-partner track) in DC before a combination of the position's relatively short term nature and a string of family/personal/health issues forced me to step away from working for a little over two years until now (all resolved now, finally). In that time I've been able to do very little work aside from some volunteer legal/politically-oriented things, which may not be appropriate to include on my resume.

Goals: Have long been interested in expanding my skills (particularly quantitative/data analysis - I was much more quantitatively oriented before moving to law) and gaining consulting and marketing experience. I also need a career reset at this point due to my long work gap, so business school seems like the right idea for me. Due to other personal reasons, I am focusing on North Carolina schools (so, ideally, Duke, UNC, or NC State).

Questions: I recently took the GMAT and scored 740 (Q47, V44), and only 5 on IR. I know I can do better on Q - made a bad timing error and didn't finish the last 4 questions. That being on my mind then led to my low IR score (I usually scored 7 or 8 on practice tests). How important is it to improve these scores for admissions to these three schools in particular? How badly will the IR (and Q) score hurt? I don't have much of a sense of how these schools use it. I have signed up to retake in two weeks because I think I can improve on both Q and IR with minimal study. I will not receive a score in time for my NC State application, however. I don't know how much to be concerned about this because NC State allows you to waive the GMAT altogether if you have a graduate degree. I assume that if I want to be competitive for Duke and UNC I will need to raise those scores (luckily there is still time left to retake and submit for those schools, though obviously it will be the last round at this point). Also, I assume that if I want to have a shot at, say, McKinsey's Charlotte office, I will have to be at Duke or UNC - does that sound right?

Or, alternatively, am I worrying too much about all of this and am I OK with my current score?

Would appreciate any perspectives and advice!


Hey Joamiq I'm not a student yet (Round 1 admit), but I think you're OK with your current score. It is quite above all the averages (UNC median-700, Duke- 710 I believe, NC State-626). Duke is also pretty well known for caring less about GMAT scores than other top schools and taking a more holistic approach and that'll likely be your most competitive school. However, if you're already kind of set to re-take it and think you can get a higher score without too much effort it maybe can't hurt. I wouldn't spend time on GMAT studying to the detriment of your essays and applications though.

I think you've checked the GMAT box and the bigger things that will potentially hurt your chances will be applying Round 3 (UNC's Round 4), that you already are very educated, and/or your lack of work history over the last two years. A higher GMAT score maybe maybe can help with Round 3 at a school like UNC or NC State that might help them with their average with most of the class already in place. I think the big things are to convince the three schools that 1) you have a really strong "why MBA/why now?" after a law degree and LLM and try and make sure they don't think you have a lack of focus or are collecting a bunch of degrees. Not sure the expanding your skills will cut it IMO 2) your commitment to NC so all three but especially NC State and maybe UNC don't think they are your backups and then 3) make a compelling case that you're employable after business school. The gaps in work history will likely relate the most to employability and admission teams want to make sure people's resumes, career goals, etc. can help them get a job afterward. Also, make sure to sell why you are "Team Fuqua" with Duke big time. Not sure if you are currently in NC, but if you are i would definitely make visits if you haven't already. This is just my opinion from what I've picked up on the forum. You might re-post in the "Ask Admissions Consultant" forum and probably do the free 30-minute calls to get a sense of your profile and your strategy even if you don't hire an admissions consultant. I'd also try and get advice from them on using the optional essays to explain the work history and possibly your advanced degrees already.

P.S. If Miami for your LLM is UM (no clue if Miami of Ohio even has a law school) GO CANES!
I agree with all parts of this (except abusing the time of unsuspecting admissions consultants) and I think that your score is really the least of your issues.. if you wanted to increase their perception of your quant abilities then focus on undergrad grades and other things that would indicate numeracy but that's really not the problem. You need to have a clear compelling narrative and post MBA goals.

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Re: Questions regarding retaking the GMAT and admissions for schools in NC &nbs [#permalink] 22 Feb 2018, 22:11
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