University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake

I belong to category 5, I am spanish without any knowledge of german language, even though I am willing to learn it. I am doubtful if I should aim to RSM or ESADE rather than St Gallen. You scared me with "it is a big achievement to pass it in 3 semesters". I would know if I could break into Swiss' financial labour market or this MSc would be well recognized in Spain or UK.

Thank you.

@Stoxxyy First, what I said is not an exaggeration. The big achievement I am talking about is only Finishing the 72 credits ( assuming you have no supplementary credits). I left out the dreaded master thesis. It is worth 18 credits. HSG standard is 1 credit = 90 hours of study. So 18 credits implies 18x90 = 1620! hours..to give some perspective you can pass all 3 CFA levels with this kind of effort as prescribed by the CFA Institute

Next, the Swiss labour market is getting tough overall. Refer the tightening work permit laws from the Swiss gov website.



Finally opportunities in outside Swiss..hmm this seeming tough question is the easiest. Refer page 15 of this document www(dot)unisg(dot)ch/en/Studium/Master/~/media/04607D793E8448B789FDCDA68393378A(dot)ashx it is the official brochure. there you can clearly see that 80% of the people placed are placed in Switzerland, surprisingly this number is the number of German speakers!!!(upto cat 4) others are split as follows..9% Germany,6% UK, 2%Liechtenstein, 2% austria, 1% russia (i hate this number..1%of a batch of 100 means like 1 russian guy went home and found a job on his own no thanks to the career services)...Evidently as you can see 0%Spain..Sorry friend this is the truth.

I suggest go on fb and find the hsg mbf group, there are a few spaniards on it. talk to them and make an informed decision.
All the best.
- Snowden

Snow den. Thanks for the great insight. Which category do you belong to among the list you have devised. Apologies if it is outrightly blatant, but just inquisitive to gauge whether there is any speck of bias.

Honestly speaking no offence intended. Your account is stellar, but it would be great to know your experience as first, second or third person.

I hope that I haven't offended your feelings. Your conviction to assist others from ground zero is commendable. I asked for your reference frame such that I can merely compare your experience with the experience that someone like me who hails from category 100 might face if he or she decides to dwell in false news.

No wonder, the lower an individual's country is in your list, the more gruesome the experience can become in terms of employ-ability; Nevertheless,the returns in academic prowess gained along the cost to knowledge axes would not be comparably gruesome as that of no job at all for a good few months or infact more.

Although, at the end life is not predictable, but yes bad planning is almost preventable.

I hope that people are cautiously optimistic after reading your anecdote, and take as a caveat.

If you don't mind me asking, how is the job situation in your home country? Since in Europe St Gallen is probably known.

Thank you for this threat, snowden. I have been considering St. Gallen for my MSc degree even since I started my research towards that goal. I think that knowledge of German is essential. Otherwise there are better opportunities for this price range and below. Nevertheless, an eye-opener! Thanks again.

Hey snowden,

I understand that you feel bad that you could not find a job in Switzerland or other German speaking country for that matter.
However, I am certain that this is all your fault. I mean, it is unreasonable to expect to work in a country if you don`t know that language of that country ? If you work for a big international company and they send you to work in a division in a foreign country, it is different. But to expect to find a full time employment in a country in which you dont know the language, it is unreasonable. And actually I think you do a good job informing people about it.
I believe if you go to St. Gallen with a decent lvl of German, say B2, and enroll in German language classes, and even some classes in the universities in which German is the language of instruction and combine these with the fact that you actually live in Switzerland and live with German speakers, I dont see how can be a problem to learn German to a level which is enough to get a job...
But generally I agree that if you dont know German and if you dont plan to learn it while there, a Ms from any German speaking country will be pointless.

Well, I cannot get the point really. The official brochures states that 100% got placed and 100% got placed...in different countries. The brochure does not claim that all have been placed in the German speaking countries.

Switzerland - 80%
Germany - 9%
Austria - 2%
Liechtenstein - 2%
Total - 93%

93% of all graduates have been placed in German speaking countries. To me this is good enough. I am sure that less than 93% of all students who started were German speakers, meaning that there are certainly many non-German speakers who got placed in German speaking countries.
Not to mention that there is a chance that the remaining 7% of all graduates got offers for a position in a German speaking country but decided not to take it and go home for a number of reasons - economical and/or personal.
Not to mention that, according to the report, 6% got placed in London, which debunks the myth that HSG only places in German speaking countries.

P.S
In the States everything can lead to a lawsuit They shouldnt be the benchmark :D

Well, in the brochure it is said that 100% placement means 100% of all graduates got placed ..not that 100% of German speaking got placed. So basically it is your word, against theirs ?
And I think your biggest mistake is assuming that all students who got jobs or internships outside of Switzerland and/or the German speaking countries, did so because they were unable to find out. Therefore you conclude that these people were on their own and the career center did not help at all.
What if the students simply did not want to work there and wanted, for instance, to go back to their countries ?
If you are from, say, Moscow, have an apartment in downtown and can find excellent job (4500-5000$) per month, why stay in Switzerland for 8 000 Francs per month and the need to pay a huge rent ?

Its ok man I appreciate that you decided to spend your time giving us your opinion
btw, I belong to category 4. I will be applying to HSG for the 2014 intake

Snowden, correct me if I am wrong, but being a citizen of the 28 EU countries, allows you to work in Switzerland, right ? I mean, there are probably some restrictions to Croatia, which just joined, and thats it ? Even the restrictions for Romanian and Bulgarian citizens are waived effective Jan 1, 2014.

Short answer , you are wrong...(no hard feelings bro but ill tell you why )

Snowden, where do you get your information about the internships ? I couldnt find it in the brochure. I only found the full time employment stats.
Although you say that 50% of the students got internships, I am pretty sure that the % of EU nationals is significantly higher. You said it yourself, most students are either Swiss or German, add other German speakers from, say Austria, and some other EU nationals from Central and Eastern Europe ( Slovakia, Slovenia, Bulgaria, Estonia, Czech republic, Poland , Romania etc)...and the % of EU nationals gets really high. Again, I am not at all trying to question your reasoning, I am just trying to facilitate a healthy discussion.
About internships not being offered to non Swiss non EU, is this the case even if the employer really wants to hire a particular Non-eu for an internships ?

Information about internships is found on FT rankings.

You are right EU nationals are greater than 50% implies some non-swiss got internships.( even my previous posts never denied this) the question is the profile of the EU nationals is almost always having the German language proficiency as a factor.

But as i said before in my categorization. the extra advantage of knowing German and one another local language( Czech, Russian etc) means that there might be a high possibility that the hiring would be in Swiss companies but for those locations.

Finally for EU citizens one thing to remember is not all non-swiss are equal. It goes like
1] Swiss
2] DACH countries ( Germans are a majority in the class as it is)
3] Rest of Europe.

And if incentive theory has taught me anything then why would companies go through the pain and the cost to hire non-swiss/non DACH?
The cost is 4000 CHF ( as quoted by the law firm, else it would be similar if processed within the company).

(The reason I bring this DACH/non-DACH concept is that , this is a standard question in all forms published by the career services center here!)

For Non-EU it is a sad story indeed. The incentives or dis-incentives are so strong against hiring them for any reason that it makes no sense to be here in the first place. Unless they want to loose their dignity and get ready to catch whatever comes their way. Sorry for the harsh words but this is exactly the takeaway from the workshop yesterday. It really did not make any sense to me why the program would simply hide this information from the international students(Non-EU).
I could see that most of them (Majorly Asian, middle east) were shocked and depressed after the session. this should not have happened.

in the chase for better rankings, these students have been stepped upon. I feel sorry for them. That is why i take pains to explain the ground reality.

-Snowden

Nice job Well, I wish you all the best in your career, either in Switzerland or in your, I presume, non-EU country..
btw, your story about the companies "losing their dignity" by hiring non-EUs sounds pretty much like companies in the 1950s in the US losing their dignity by hiring blacks or females I dont think it is thaat bad, but who am I to say

dude you mis-read my statement. I meant the applicants in this case the students lose their dignity, since they all are not on equal footing.

your presumption is partly right. I am from an European 'non-EU' country( atleast not as of now )

-Snowden

@palidniax i am confused are you giving me advise or are you asking for information?

if you are giving advise i assure you that I will give it due thought.

If you are asking a question then from what i see from your post, you have the whole game-plan set-up.

Finally, you must be aware that you are not obliged to follow what I have said. The risk is totally on you. When i felt disillusioned after seeing the reality here , i felt the need to share information without any expectation of gains or recognition. That was the whole point.

you say you are from category 100 and still you are confident and beg to differ from my account of first hand experiences, then ,well, all I can say is 'ALL THE BEST'

-Snowden

Go ahead Snowden. this thread is getting more and more interesting with each new post.