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# Toronto Rotman 2012 - Calling All Applicants

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08 Mar 2012, 06:16
Received my book yesterday as well. Got a signed copy of "The Opposable Mind".
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08 Mar 2012, 07:07
mbizhtk wrote:
Received my book yesterday as well. Got a signed copy of "The Opposable Mind".

Lucky you. I would have personally much preferred a copy of "The Opposable Mind" than "Diaminds".

I did sit in on a second year class with dean Roger Martin with his integrative thinking/opposable mind topic. It was a 4-hour class and man, did it ever involve some serious mental calisthenics. Very useful for strategy. The Desautels centre seems to be doing some really interesting work. The class and the dean actually made quite an impression on me (even though I haven't attended an official Rotman recruitment event yet). The class was very dynamic and engaged in his lecture too, to a level that I hadn't even seen in any of the universities (incl. US) I had been too. Of course it could have been that this was the only Y2 class I sat in on, vs all the others which were Y1 (hence for most people, it was likely an elective).
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08 Mar 2012, 08:19
alinomoto, you sat in his class? I've been reading through Diaminds, and to be honest, I'm not too impressed. How did you find his integrative thinking class? Is it all just, for lack of a better word, fluff and well-disguised bs? Looks like "integrative thinking" is Rotman's differentiating factor, and I'm wondering if it really is something worth, um, thinking about.
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08 Mar 2012, 08:38
itwasme wrote:
alinomoto, you sat in his class? I've been reading through Diaminds, and to be honest, I'm not too impressed. How did you find his integrative thinking class? Is it all just, for lack of a better word, fluff and well-disguised bs? Looks like "integrative thinking" is Rotman's differentiating factor, and I'm wondering if it really is something worth, um, thinking about.

Haha. You pretty much spelled out what I thought of the book. I found it tedious and frankly, boring. Which is why I said I'd have preferred the Opposable Mind (which has good reviews). Also, he is the second author on diaminds, and it seems to be more a work of Mihnea Moldoveanu (the chair of the DeSautels Institute).

Of the Integrative thinking - of course, I only sat through one class so I cannot give a complete or full representative picture. It is essentially a method that gives structure to strategic thought and helps you organize and diagram your thought processes. A lot of it is fluff, but there are useful nuggets in there too (for instance, prioritization of issues when suggesting a course of action for a client - saving on time/money - something that the diagramming makes easier).

I am not sure if I was beginning to develop some unique way of thinking or examining problems at the end of the class. But again, I repeat my caveat that this was a single class - apparently these 2Y students have been developing these concepts from their Y1 days.

Also, I was told that they are revamping their courses to make IT (int. thinking) much up upfront and centre right from the get-go (and in the core courses). Until now, it has featured much more in Y2 electives.

Roger Martin is an affable and personable chap, but honestly I found him/his lecture quite dry. He is not a good orator, even though he may be a great thinker. I was much more impressed with Schulich's dean when I attended their event; based on oratory prowess alone. However, it is the vision and the leadership of the dean that is important, not necessarily whether they are good public orators or not.

What struck me was how the students and the staff were completely invested in what dean Martin was selling and towards his vision for Rotman. That is a big plus for a school in my books. If the staff/students are apathetic or even opposed to the dean's ideas, I tend to steer well clear of the school (no matter how good those ideas are). Leadership begins at home. So yes, in terms of a well oiled machine, I think Rotman made much more of an impression on me than Schulich (which seems to have too many arms and is trying too much at the same time to claim - "me too"). Also, I actually met a bunch of American students at Rotman, which surprised me. I asked why they chose to forgo the much higher ranked US schools for Rotman, and the common answer was their belief in the Dean's and the school's main tenets (forefront of which is "Integrative Thinking").
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08 Mar 2012, 09:18
.

Last edited by itwasme on 10 Mar 2012, 09:46, edited 1 time in total.
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10 Mar 2012, 05:43
Nice sharing dude....Keep it up....
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13 Mar 2012, 11:46
Super useful Xiaomu. Thanks for sharing!!!
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15 Mar 2012, 16:06
Got the admit mail today. Accepted with $$! Exhilarated with the results Intern Joined: 04 Mar 2011 Posts: 49 Concentration: Strategy GMAT 1: 700 Q V Followers: 2 Kudos [?]: 5 [0], given: 0 Re: Toronto Rotman 2012 - Calling All Applicants [#permalink] ### Show Tags 16 Mar 2012, 02:09 @mvpatki: did you do the interview? What are the dates for the milestones since submitting? Intern Joined: 04 Mar 2011 Posts: 49 Concentration: Strategy GMAT 1: 700 Q V Followers: 2 Kudos [?]: 5 [0], given: 0 Re: Toronto Rotman 2012 - Calling All Applicants [#permalink] ### Show Tags 16 Mar 2012, 02:11 Sorry. i went back to previous posts and I have seen the dates I requested. Congrats on the offer @mvpatki. Intern Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 10 Followers: 0 Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0 Re: Toronto Rotman 2012 - Calling All Applicants [#permalink] ### Show Tags 19 Mar 2012, 08:43 Hey guys , Need little advice. I have low GMAT (600) with 10 years of exp in chemical industry. Decent reco and ECs. Do you think GMAT can be a bottle neck for me for Rotmans Manager Joined: 20 Oct 2011 Posts: 123 Location: Canada Concentration: Sustainability, General Management GMAT 1: 710 Q49 V38 GPA: 3.98 Followers: 2 Kudos [?]: 30 [0], given: 11 Re: Toronto Rotman 2012 - Calling All Applicants [#permalink] ### Show Tags 19 Mar 2012, 08:52 rajrohitk2 wrote: Hey guys , Need little advice. I have low GMAT (600) with 10 years of exp in chemical industry. Decent reco and ECs. Do you think GMAT can be a bottle neck for me for Rotmans This question will be best answered by the AdCom at Rotman. I suggest you reach out to one of them as they are really friendly and personable. They will be able to guide you well. However, with 10 years of experience, I can see most programs trying to push for the EMBA program (assuming of course, that you had some kind of a management role). Intern Joined: 05 Nov 2011 Posts: 5 Location: India Concentration: Strategy, Finance GMAT 1: 710 Q49 V39 Followers: 0 Kudos [?]: 5 [0], given: 0 Re: Toronto Rotman 2012 - Calling All Applicants [#permalink] ### Show Tags 21 Mar 2012, 22:23 Hello everyone, Can anyone share their views on Canada Vs UK Vs US considering the current economy and visa situation? I have an admit from MBS with$$ and am expecting a decision from Oxford tomorrow. Also awaiting a decision from Michigan Ross. I really really want to attend Rotman but am kinda torn between US, UK and Canada and the schools mentioned above.

Anything you guys have to share on this?
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25 Mar 2012, 06:49
alinomoto wrote:
rajrohitk2 wrote:
Hey guys ,

Need little advice. I have low GMAT (600) with 10 years of exp in chemical industry. Decent reco and ECs. Do you think GMAT can be a bottle neck for me for Rotmans

This question will be best answered by the AdCom at Rotman. I suggest you reach out to one of them as they are really friendly and personable. They will be able to guide you well.

However, with 10 years of experience, I can see most programs trying to push for the EMBA program (assuming of course, that you had some kind of a management role).

Good point. I have 11+ years of experience of which around 6 is in project management. I just checked with the ad com and they asked me to go ahead and apply. Guess they say that to everyone .

I am applying this year. Let's see how it goes.
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26 Mar 2012, 19:34
Received offer of admission last week. The interview questions were pretty much the same as here. I studied Engineering at Waterloo, GMAT score was a lowly 690... I wanted to meet their early admissions deadline so couldn't prepare for more than a month since I made up my mind for MBA so late... My work experience was pretty good, strong recommendations from all employers.

I wanted to stay in Toronto because I grew up here Anyway, I did my research on Rotman's program, talked to grads etc. got a very good impression of the school from everyone so it was an easy choice. I also wanted to enjoy the life in Toronto... from my experience most Torontonians don't realize the quality of life in this city until they've lived elsewhere.. I've lived & worked in 5 different cities in the last few years and nothing seems to top Toronto for me, not even the supposedly perfect Cali weather... The only thing I am not 100% sure about is whether Rotman is worth the massive price tag but neither is there any certainty about other schools, really.

Last edited by chundomoon on 15 Apr 2012, 14:42, edited 2 times in total.
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27 Mar 2012, 07:25
chundomoon wrote:
Received offer of admission last week. The interview questions were pretty much the same as here. I studied Computer Engineering at Waterloo, GMAT score was a lowly 690... I wanted to meet their early admissions deadline so couldn't prepare for more than a month since I made up my mind for MBA so late... My work experience was pretty good, strong recommendations from all employers.

I wanted to stay in Toronto because I grew up here and am totally biased Anyway, I did my research on Rotman's program, talked to grads etc. got a very good impression of the school from everyone so it was an easy choice. Still not 100% sure it's worth the massive price tag but I am reasonably certain I will get a good education here.

Congrats chundomoon. So what background are you from and what are you targeting post MBA? What's your years of experience? Hope you dont mind answering these questions.
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30 Mar 2012, 16:53
Price tag is something that puts off a lot of people who want to study at Rotman. I am also a little apprehensive about the increase in class size and the impact it will have on intern ship opportunities. Can some one who is familiar with Toronto shed light on whether Toronto as a lonely market place in Canada, be able to absorb 320 MBA students, not even including students from other colleges? Also if people who had visited the college comment on the intern ship scenario at Rotman and the general sentiment amongst the current students.

Also the college's ad comm and ccc have gone completely silent. While other colleges I have turned my deposit to (yes, I am STILL undecided) are conducting webinars on helping students transition into their program, resume writing and career search tips. That makes me wonder if the college' CCC is as effective as it should be. This is just an observation and I may well be wrong, but opinions will be highly appreciated.
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03 Apr 2012, 18:59
gijoedude wrote:
I scored a 700+ GMAT and received the Diaminds book too. Initially Rotman was my top choice but I ultimately not ended up applying for the following reasons:

...........

Take my opinions for FWIW.

That some interesting opinion from you. I am also an international applicant to Rotman and worried about investing 100K.
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03 Apr 2012, 19:43
nikhilsrl wrote:
gijoedude wrote:
I scored a 700+ GMAT and received the Diaminds book too. Initially Rotman was my top choice but I ultimately not ended up applying for the following reasons:

...........

Take my opinions for FWIW.

That some interesting opinion from you. I am also an international applicant to Rotman and worried about investing 100K.

Btw my point about 20 odd position refer purely to M&A/Capital Markets type positions. There are many job options in risk/S&T/ER etc.
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04 Apr 2012, 11:31
gijoedude wrote:
I scored a 700+ GMAT and received the Diaminds book too. Initially Rotman was my top choice but I ultimately not ended up applying for the following reasons:

1) I want to do investment banking. Even though Rotman is an excellent finance school with top-notch faculty, Toronto has only about 15-18 positions in investment banking every year. This is all the Big 5 banks and top boutiques put together. At Rotman typically half the class is interested in finance, so basically there are 120 people gunning for the 20 odd positions. Btw, your competition also includes folks from Ivey, Schulich, Queens and Canadians at top US MBAs who want to come back. Hence for my career goals, the problem wasn't Rotman, the problem was the Toronto job market. And plus Ontario's economy is pretty darn crappy and isn't poised to get better anytime soon.

2) A Rotman alum I met himself told me that CCC at Rotman isn't as the good as the career management at Ivey. He said that Ivey's career management is more involved. A student I talked to said that apparently only 60% of people found jobs in the summer of 2011. Another student I talked to said "try for Wharton/Columbia/Stern if you want to work in finance. Come to Rotman if you have no other choice". Again, this is primarily because of Toronto, not because of Rotman.

3) For those interested in consulting, Rotman (and Ivey for that matter) are not core schools for M/B/B. Each take 0-1/2 students from Rotman/Ivey every year.

4) Finally the price tag. I would have applied to Rotman if it cost $60,000. But I can't justify paying$85K for a Canadian MBA. It's just not worth it for me, a person who already went to UofT for undergrad. I personally was disappointed by my undergrad experience and didn't want to hand over to UofT that much money all over again. For international students it's \$100k. For that kind of money one can go to a comparable school like UNC-KF, Georgetown, UT-Austin and get access to a much bigger job market. Of course US has its visa issues and all, that's something for you to decide.

5) I have been in Toronto for a decade now. I wanted to make a move to the US. Hence if I got a UofT degree, my life would be here. I can't see myself in Toronto in the long term. Hence didn't end up applying. For the international who are trying to migrate to Canada, Rotman obviously is a good choice, although Schulich might be cheaper.

Take my opinions for FWIW.

Took the words right out of my mouth. As a proud engineering grad from U of T, it saddens me to have to write anything negative about my Alma Mater but it is what it is. The anecdotes that you brought up about job placement and Rotman students’ gloomy outlooks are the exact same from my experiences with Rotman’s students. I really hate to generalize from such a few examples but with MBA students being coached to say good thing about their programs to protect ranking and rep, it’s especially worrying that multiple Rotman alums are saying the same thing.

At 100k, Rotman’s tuition rivals schools such as Stanford and Harvard, however the neither the quality of education nor the employment potential justify that kind of costs. With low entry stats, high tuition and poor employment record, Rotman is a high risk and low reward investment. For those looking to study in Toronto, I would recommend Schulich, higher admission stats, lower tuition and better employment opportunities.
Re: Toronto Rotman 2012 - Calling All Applicants   [#permalink] 04 Apr 2012, 11:31

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