Calling all US Military Fall 2012 Applicants!

Hi everyone. I'm a 1st year at McCombs, former Navy officer, and member of the McCombs Admissions Committee. I was on this board a lot last year, and it was a great resource. I'm glad to see that it is active again this year.

If anyone has questions about the Texas MBA, application questions, or just general questions about transitioning from active duty to business school, don't hesitate to PM me. I'm always happy to help out fellow vets.

Good luck on applications, and thank you for your service!

HBS R1 app is submitted - good luck to everyone else.

Hi,

With all the talk of admissions consultants, we figured we would come on here and try to dispel some of the myths and answer user questions. MilitaryToBusiness was formed as a formal business by a group of HBS '11 veterans and we focus on military applicants. We also run a blog that tries to give veterans in general as much of an advantage as possible. We just posted some new analysis of age distribution at HBS today. I know some military guys think that age is not a factor in their admission, but it absolutely is. Less than 10% of military guys at HBS served more than their initial obligated service, and we don't think it's for lack of applicants. I was 31 when I applied and had 10 years of active duty by the time I started, so I am definitely sensitive to others who are trying to figure out the whole age challenge. This is good news for those of you getting out after your initial service.

To the question of whether somebody needs an admissions consultant, we think certainly not everyone does, and we talk about this on our site. A lot of people who are able to tap sufficiently into the current veteran community on campus, get the right information online, and most importantly, have somebody who has been through the process help them, are certainly good candidates to go without an admissions consultant. This is not our full time job... we just know HBS really well after running the veteran group on campus... and we like helping veterans. We are not trying to just sell a service, we are trying to help veterans, and after two years of doing it for free, can't sustain it without charging anymore now that we all have full time jobs, families of our own, and are back in the real world. We try to keep our prices down to make it a little easier to swallow on a military salary.

The vision for MilitaryToBusiness is to do a lot more than just grad school admissions, but also to eventually help veterans transition directly into top jobs such as McKinsey and firms on Wall Street. There's no reason why that pathway shouldn't exist as an option, and we are working on it as we speak. We know that many top performers are simply not impressed enough with places like Cameron-Brooks and Lucas Group, and what they offer. They do a good job for addressing the needs of most, but they tend to fall short on providing truly high trajectory careers. I don't think that's their sweet spot anyway because the market for it is so small. We hope to help fill that gap, as well as promote entrepreneurship, and top business/law admissions. Business school is a great transition for military guys (I would do it again myself), but some would prefer to go straight into a truly competitive job, and we think both options should exist.

Anyway, I feel like this would be a rude way to make an introduction if I wasn't able to actually add some value with this post. Later in the week I'm going to post a blog entry highlighting US service academy representation at HBS. I've been doing research on this and have data going back to 1947. I'll post it as an attachment here, and the full analysis on the blog in a week. It's pretty interesting to see when the spikes occurred.

Lastly, I won't be able to respond to every post, but I do hope that MtB will be able to answer basic questions on the forum. There are already a lot of students on here answering questions, and students often have the best insight of all. Veterans in general are very eager to help others going through the process, because we all remember how difficult and awkward the process is since most of us are doing it on our own, without a lot of support, and just figuring it out as we go.

Congrats to all of you who just submitted to R1, and best of luck to those pushing through R2! There will be a light at the end of the tunnel.

Figured I would throw my own two cents in:

When I was applying, I regularly read the Military to Business blog and still do now as a current student. The creator has a talent for verbalizing a lot of concepts that make perfect sense in a military context but are hard to translate into the new world of business school and careers. I think that if you thoroughly read the entire blog and get in touch with the Veterans clubs at your target schools, then you will be fine. If, however, you still think going with a consultant is necessary, I am sure that their services would be top notch. I also think Stacy Blackman's and Alex Chu's blogs are worth reading and both seem to offer candid and realistic advice.

Keep the good discussions going as the admissions cycle moves forward!

I spent the last couple of days visiting two schools. I interviewed at Tuck and visited Johnson (Cornell) as well. I have a friend from college that's going through Johnson. He's running the Vets Club there.

I just wanted to share a couple of thoughts that are probably obvious to most, but in the event that they aren't then hopefully this saves you some pain.

1. Wear a suit. At Johnson, it was myself and two other people visiting. They both wore jeans. One guy had a collared shirt on. The other had a thermal top with distressed and cut up jeans. He did however put a Led Zeppelin t-shirt over the thermal top. Our tour guide, who was really cute, spent most of the time talking to me because I "dressed like an adult with a suit." If you can't afford a suit, at least try to get some slacks and a sport coat. Just try to show you're taking it seriously.

1a. If you do wear thermals, make sure your first question in the information session isn't "How much sleep do you get here?"

2. At Tuck, we had a short tour with a student and then an info session with a member of the ADCOM. Sometimes the student leading the tour will go "off script" and tell you unflattering things about the school. One person asked the ADCOM about one of these unflattering things. The ADCOM rep smiled her way through it, but did not really appreciate the question. It was obvious. If you really want answers to those sorts of things, ask a dude in the Vets Club that you have some sort of relationship with. All things considered, the one thing that the student didn't like about Tuck is not an issue to me.

3. I interviewed with a foreign student. This was challenging and caught me a little off-guard. I think I muscled through it and did a good job. It was definitely different though. I think most Americans, whether they like the military or not, are on some level interested in what we do. It quickly became apparent that my interviewer was not all that interested. Tuck interviews are probably more converational in nature than other schools (I am guessing). As a result, I just tried to turn the conversation to Tuckish topics and learn as much about him and his background. If I scored some extra points it may have been because of this. People like talking about themselves. We all know that.

I have one year left on my service commitment to the Air Force and I just submitted my applications to Harvard, Wharton and Columbia. I'm also looking to submit to Kellogg in the near future. I was an engineering undergrad and have been in Acquisitions in the AF. I'm hoping that having the combination of military leadership and working with the business world will set me a part from many of the other applicants (military included). I've never deployed and most of my time is spent in cubicle farms so I think my essays and resume will look very different from a lot of people getting out of the military these days.

Any thoughts on reapplying down the road? I'm in the unfortunate situation where I'm going to be offered my next assignment probably in the Jan-Feb timeframe and have 7 days to chose, stay in/get out. If I haven't gotten into an MBA program I don't really want to take the risk of getting out of a job that really isn't all that bad. The question would be what is the likelihood if I get dinged at all 4 that after an additional 2 years in the military I could strengthen my application enough to get in on a second try? Or would it be better to aim my sights lower on a second go around?

WSJ has a spread on business school today. Here's the link. There are other articles about business school embedded within the site. It is kind of depressing, but they did acknowledge that an MBA is still a useful degree for career switchers like us.

https://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 86960.html

I remember seeing a BW article years ago (early 2000's) with the same idea. It cited Japan and Germany as advanced economies that developed without an MBA culture. Pretty convincing, I'd have to admit.

I was near the end of undergrad at the time and contemplating the next step. The MBA was a new concept for me and I probably looked for things about it that would remove itself from contention. Too many things to consider at the time.

In the end, perhaps what matters most are:
- current job trajectory / where you are and where the path is headed
- what's happening with career placement. / where you want to go, short & long term
There are still quite a few companies that recruit MBAs and that recruit from a select few schools.

A consultant once told me you don't need an MBA to do MBA jobs. And sure, there are plenty of entrepreneurs, consultants, managers, and even bankers who don't have MBAs. Most people would probably take those opportunities without the degree if they could. ... and if the opportunities is not there for the taking, then the MBA is a more visible path toward them.

More random thoughts:
- I think these articles are good click / ad generators because when I wasn't seriously considering the MBA, I would click on such titles to perhaps confirm my hope that it's not necessary.
- The economy might also be a factor; maybe less work for Booz means less need for MBAs.
- The undergrad guys who are hired with the expectation to move up might also be expected to complete an executive MBA at some point. I've met several EMBAs who did it because they were told to. It's often all paid for but they did not like spending 3 years swamped with work when they had significant job and family responsibilities.

If I understood correctly, all your apps are R1's and your decision date for the assignment is in Jan/Feb?
I think all R1 decisions are made before the end of the year, though you may get deferred to R2 or WL?
Might be a tough call, hopefully there's some flexibility in the assignments, GL.

Interesting. I went to a GSB class visit recently (they just take you to class and then that's it, nothing planned afterwards) and out of ~15 visitors, there were a few guys with dress pants and shirt but most were unmemorable: khakis and long-sleeved t-shirts or light sweaters like me.
The students in class were all casually dressed, some with baseball caps.
Might be just a SF bay area thing though.

Yes all my apps so far are R1. Harvard, Wharton and Kellogg should all notify by December so I'm ok there but since I applied RD to Columbia they only start reviewing my application in December so that could cut it close. My thinking is that if I reached too high (didn't exactly apply to any safety schools in R1) I don't have the chance to apply anywhere in R2 as a just in case. Unless there is a chance if I apply in R2 but get the application in sometime in October they might get to it early and notify me early but that seems like a reach. Unfortunately there is 0 flexibility in the assignments, I'm notified of my next assignment and have exactly 7 calendar days to make a decision from the time I receive the email.

I don't know how the AF works, but in the Army you can put in your resignation and then renege. In other words, you can stay in. The AF might be different since I think your retention numbers are better. Some of this might be changing giving the pending cuts to all of the services. My understanding from the always reliable Earlybird is that the Army and Marine Corps will cut the most, but those cuts are slated to go into action around 2014.

Anyway, if I were you, I would put in an app to NYU Stern. They have the latest R1 application deadline. It's in mid-November. Stern for some reason has set its deadlines later than the other schools (presumably to be a possibility for people that weren't previously considering it). If CBS was a target school for you, then perhaps Stern also meets your career goals. Stern is having a Military Prospectives Day on 10 NOV. The app requires a little bit of work because they have one "weird" essay just like Booth has the "give us a one page powerpoint about you" (or something like that).

The students are always casual. They've already passed the test.

I can't speak for GSB, but I know that at Johnson some of the students were a little bit apoplectic to see people not taking the visit seriously. If you're going to go, then go all the way.

GSB might be more casual just because it's Palo Alto.

I would say you don't need to bother with a suit unless you're actually there to interview or unless you really want to stand out. We've had visitors in our classes just about every day so far, and they've all been in dress slacks and a nice-looking button-down. I think one wore a tie but the rest didn't. That's the same way I dressed last year for all my visits except my HBS interview and it was in line with how all the other visitors were dressed.

I'm visiting Fuqua tomorrow and not planning on wearing a suit. Probably slacks, blazer, button down. I feel like a suit is a little bit much for just a visit (sans interview).

So far I've been to three info sessions for Stanford, Columbia, and MIT. I wore a suit and tie all times, but I think I'll start dropping the tie from now on. There's a mix of every type, and although there are quite a few who wear ties, I don't think it really matters that much.

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I'm a first-year at Tuck and I am looking to pay back all the help the vets in b-school gave me while I was in the application stage. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions on applying to Tuck.