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Re: Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava [#permalink]
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Eliminated b,d,e.

Between A and C.

Explanation from MGMAT:

The "ing" ending of erupting essentially allows this modifier to modify an entire clause instead of just the immediately preceding noun (which is the case, for example, in answer choice C - the "which" makes it a noun modifier and it would have to modify "days"). Which, who, where - all of those indicate noun modifiers (and noun modifiers, by definition, have to touch the noun they modify).

therefore A
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My thoughts..

Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, sporadically erupting through volcanoes, but they now know that it is continuously created by the heat of the radioactivity deep inside the planet.

A. was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, sporadically erupting - perfect & parallel
B. had been an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days and sporadically erupted - had been is unnecessary, you need simple past tense.
C. was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, which sporadically erupted - "which" incorrectly modifies "days" but we are attempting to modify molten rock
D. would be an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days that sporadically erupted - "would be" is incorrect here. Wrong tense. They actually BELIEVED it was a molten rock, not that it "would be". Grammar & understanding the passage helps eliminate this.
E. was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, having sporadically erupted - "having" is unnecessary. It also changes the meaning slightly.
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Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, sporadically erupting through volcanoes, but they now know that it is continuously created by the heat of the radioactivity deep inside the planet.

Meaning:
Breaking the sentence into clauses:
- Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, sporadically erupting through volcanoes.
- but they now know that it is continuously created by the heat of the radioactivity deep inside the planet

Meaning is quite clear that something, which was once thought to be true about Lava, is now found to be untrue because of further knowledge about it(lava).

Error Analysis:
SV- No error. Lava is correctly associated with helping verb "was".

V- No error.

P- No error. They and It has a logical and meaningful antecedent.

Modifier- No error, but here we need to think whether Lava is the DOER of the modifier "erupting", since it is the major difference between choice A and E. In this case, Lava is the logical doer of "erupting", hence CORRECT. Further the modifier giving extra information about the clause it is preceding.

idiom- no error found.

POE:
A - CORRECT.
B - "had been" is wrong use bcause there is no proper verb sequencing requirement in the sentence.
C - "which sporadically errupted" modifying "ramnants". So wrong choice.
D - "would be" changes the intended meaning of sentence.
E - "having sporadically..." use unnecessary and changes the way Lava irrupted.
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Re: Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava [#permalink]
Don't you think as per the option , erupting is modifying the geologists.
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Re: Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava [#permalink]
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robu wrote:
Don't you think as per the option , erupting is modifying the geologists.


The present participle modifier "sporadically erupting through volcanoes" is within the clause "that the molten rock known as lava was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, sporadically erupting through volcanoes"

Thus the present participle modifier refers to the subject of the previous clause before it, i.e. " the molten rock"
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Re: Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava [#permalink]
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Gnpth wrote:
Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, sporadically erupting through volcanoes, but they now know that it is continuously created by the heat of the radioactivity deep inside the planet.

(A) was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, sporadically erupting
(B) had been an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days and sporadically erupted
(C) was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, which sporadically erupted
(D) would be an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days that sporadically erupted
(E) was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, having sporadically erupted

I'm happy to respond. :-) Apparently, this is a MGMAT question, and as usual, it's a good one.

One grammatical feature that appears in this sentence is the sequence of tenses. The geologist "thought" something in the past, so the verbs describing the content of what they thought should follow the rules of the sequence of tenses.

When the geologist were alive and doing this "thinking," they thought that in their own present time, the lava was a remnant. This is in the geologists' present time, so it should be in the same tense as we use for the geologists, the past tense. We need the past tense, "was," not the past perfect "had been," nor the hypothetical "would be." We can eliminate choices (B) & (D).

Choices (A) & (C) & (E) are identical up to the comma, and then have
(A) ... sporadically erupting = fine, the correct tense
(C) ... which sporadically erupted = also the correct tense, but a bit wordier
(E) ... having sporadically erupted = changes the tense from the prompt, so this changes the meaning
In (A) & (C), the "erupting" is also in the geologist present time, the same time the remnants existed. In the prompt, all three happen in the same general time period: (1) the geologist thinking, (2) lava was a remnant, and (3) the erupting. Both those choices keep those three events in the same time period. Choice (E) puts the erupting in an earlier time period from the others, and that's a change in meaning, so (E) is wrong.

Both (A) & (C) are grammatically & logically right, but (C) is a little wordier, so (A) is the best.

Does all this make sense?
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That works for me, except we want a concrete reason to get rid of C. I save "wordy" for a last resort! In this case, C offers us a noun modifier: "which sporadically erupted." Earth's earliest days didn't sporadically erupt, so C is incorrect.
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Re: Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava [#permalink]
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Does the ‘which’ in C really refer to the earliest days? I wouldn’t think so because logically one doesn’t expect days to erupt. We might see that the relative pronoun is preceded by a whole noun phrase immediately before and therefore the pronoun refers to the entire noun phrase rather than just the noun it is touching. Looked that way, I feel the pronoun touch rule is not in debate in C

Proof for this treatment comes for the legendary official example of the Emily Dickinson’s letters to Susan Huntington Dickinson and the ample enlightenment of the issue by Ron in his observation in the link---
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... t6529.html
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Re: Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava [#permalink]
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DmitryFarber wrote:
That works for me, except we want a concrete reason to get rid of C. I save "wordy" for a last resort! In this case, C offers us a noun modifier: "which sporadically erupted." Earth's earliest days didn't sporadically erupt, so C is incorrect.

daagh wrote:
Does the ‘which’ in C really refer to the earliest days? I wouldn’t think so because logically one doesn’t expect days to erupt. We might see that the relative pronoun is preceded by a whole noun phrase immediately before and therefore the pronoun refers to the entire noun phrase rather than just the noun it is touching. Looked that way, I feel the pronoun touch rule is not in debate in C

Proof for this treatment comes for the legendary official example of the Emily Dickinson’s letters to Susan Huntington Dickinson and the ample enlightenment of the issue by Ron in his observation in the link---
https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... t6529.html

Dear DmitryFarber & daagh,

My brilliant colleagues, thank you for your responses.

In (C), I thought that "which," a clear noun-modifier, was modifying the noun "remnant," and I was interpreting "of Earth's earliest days" as a vital noun modifier--I believe the MGMAT terms for this is a "mission critical modifier," one that can come before a standard modifier and that modifier's target noun. As I am sure you understand, this is a legitimate exception to the Modifier Touch Rule. In my reading, (C) would be acceptable on its own, and the only grounds for preferring (A) over (C) is that (C) is slightly wordier. In other words, I felt I had to use this last resort.

I would be interested in your opinions.

With great respect,
Mike McGarry
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Re: Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava [#permalink]
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Dear Mike:

I agree with your reasoning in toto. Haven't I written so in my response?
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Honestly, one compelling reason to deny "of Earth's earliest days" mission-critical status is precisely to avoid using concision to choose A. I'm not convinced that "it's too wordy" is ever the sole flaw with an answer choice, other than in cases of redundancy.

In any case, there's no good reason to override the touch rule here. There are better ways to express the same idea, and "remnant of Earth's earliest days" is not clearly all one thing, as in "the price of oil," "the queen of Spain," or "the jar of peanut butter." However, the surest way to cut out C may be to look at what happens when we remove the troublesome modifier:

Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava was an underground remnant, which sporadically erupted through volcanoes, but they now know that it is continuously created by the heat of the radioactivity deep inside the planet.

From this perspective, the use of "which" doesn't even make sense. We should use the restrictive "that": "lava was an underground remnant that sporadically erupted . . . " This more clearly conveys the intended meaning and maintains parallelism between the two contrasting descriptions of what lava is and does. Now we can cut C with a clear conscience and without invoking the dread W word.
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Re: Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava [#permalink]
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I was asked in a PM if "sporadically erupting . . . " is a noun modifier that jumps over the previous modifier to apply to "remnant." No, it's not a noun modifier at all, so we are spared the "mission-critical" discussion we had about C.

Generally, when we see an -ing modifier preceded by a comma, it's an adverbial modifier, and that's the case here. This means it modifies the previous action or clause. This one can't really modify the word "was" alone; rather, it tacks on to the previous clause to add meaning. Geologists thought that lava was a remnant, and that every now and then this remnant just happened to erupt through a volcano. This sets up a contrast with the second half of the sentence, in which we learn that lava is produced all the time, not just sporadically.

Note that when we see an -ing modifier without a comma, it is typically a noun modifier.

Charlotte was amazed at the sight of the butterfly emerging from the chrysalis.

Here, "emerging" modifies "butterfly." If we had put a comma in front of it, we would have created some confusion. Was Charlotte amazed to see a butterfly as she herself emerged from a chrysalis? That doesn't seem like the meaning we want!
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Re: Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava [#permalink]
The original sentence does not contain any errors. The verb clause "was an
underground remnant of Earth's earliest days" is correct in tense (simple past
"was") and number (singular "molten rock" paired with singular "was").
Moreover, the modifier "sporadically erupting through volcanoes" correctly
modifies "an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days."
• (A) CORRECT. This choice is correct as it repeats the original sentence.
• (B) This choice unnecessarily and incorrectly changes the simple past "was" to
the past perfect "had been," which is used only when describing the earlier of
two past actions. Moreover, the use of "and" here equates the geologists' false
understanding of lava with the fact that it sometimes erupts through volcanoes.
• (C) This choice improperly uses the relative pronoun "which" to modify "Earth's
earliest days" instead of "molten rock known as lava."
- 78 -
• (D) This choice incorrectly changes the simple past "was" to the conditional
"would be." Moreover, the use of "that" implies that eruption through volcanoes
was part of what the geologists erroneously believed about lava.
• (E) In this choice, "having sporadically erupted" incorrectly places this modifier
in the past tense, implying that lava no longer erupts through volcanoes.
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Re: Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava [#permalink]
Quote:
A. was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, sporadically erupting

B. had been an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days and sporadically erupted

C. was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, which sporadically erupted

D. would be an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days that sporadically erupted

E. was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, having sporadically erupted


I am extraordinarily confused now with two things - 1. About how different people suggest different things regarding the suitability of using a verb+ing modifier and 2. Exception to the noun modifier rule.

I would really appreciate it if anybody could help declutter my thought process. I am delineating the same here (Was that an oxymoron? :P ):

1. Using the tense logic, I was able to eliminate B & D.
2. Eliminate E: having sporadically erupted -> The participial phrase, I thought, was modifying the geologists.

Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, sporadically erupting through volcanoes .. In the question stem, "that begins a relative clause" and the verb+ing modifier comes after the clause also containing the independent clause - Geologists once thought.

having sporadically erupted is a participial phrase and a participial phrase always requires a subject. Isn't this modifying geologists? Either way, even if it referred to the molten rock, the tense is still off. having sporadically erupted makes it seem as if it was a one-off activity which happened in the past.

3. Next, between A & C:

As mikemcgarry mentioned, I have seen a few instances where of something typically functions as a vital noun modifier and is followed by a which clause. So, I didn't rule it out because of the incorrect modifier touch rule.
With A, again, I got super-confused because it was a verb+ing modifier. I am quoting e-gmat here: ->

Quote:
Verb+ing modifier should modify the preceding clause, and at the same time make sense with the subject of the preceding clause.

And according to me, having sporadically erupted didn't make sense with geologists. Which is why I picked C.

I would really appreciate it if somebody could please provide the right use-case for a verb+ing modifier and explain why it is correctly or incorrectly referring to molten rock here? Getting this concept straight will go a long way in getting modifier questions correct.

mikemcgarry, AjiteshArun, daagh, DmitryFarber, GMATNinja. Please help.
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Quote:
Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, sporadically erupting through volcanoes, but they now know that it is continuously created by the heat of the radioactivity deep inside the planet.

(A) was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, sporadically erupting
(B) had been an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days and sporadically erupted
(C) was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, which sporadically erupted
(D) would be an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days that sporadically erupted
(E) was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, having sporadically erupted




Quote:
Anud wrote
I am extraordinarily confused now with two things - 1. About how different people suggest different things regarding the suitability of using a verb+ing modifier and 2. Exception to the noun modifier rule.

I would really appreciate it if anybody could help declutter my thought process. I am delineating the same here (Was that an oxymoron? :P ):

1. Using the tense logic, I was able to eliminate B & D.
2. Eliminate E: having sporadically erupted -> The participial phrase, I thought, was modifying the geologists.

Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, sporadically erupting through volcanoes .. In the question stem, "that begins a relative clause" and the verb+ing modifier comes after the clause also containing the independent clause - Geologists once thought.

having sporadically erupted is a participial phrase and a participial phrase always requires a subject. Isn't this modifying geologists? Either way, even if it referred to the molten rock, the tense is still off. having sporadically erupted makes it seem as if it was a one-off activity which happened in the past.

3. Next, between A & C:

As mikemcgarry mentioned, I have seen a few instances where of something typically functions as a vital noun modifier and is followed by a which clause. So, I didn't rule it out because of the incorrect modifier touch rule.
With A, again, I got super-confused because it was a verb+ing modifier. I am quoting e-gmat here: ->

Verb+ing modifier should modify the preceding clause, and at the same time make sense with the subject of the preceding clause.

And according to me, having sporadically erupted didn't make sense with geologists. Which is why I picked C.

I would really appreciate it if somebody could please provide the right use-case for a verb+ing modifier and explain why it is correctly or incorrectly referring to molten rock here? Getting this concept straight will go a long way in getting modifier questions correct.

mikemcgarry, AjiteshArun, daagh, DmitryFarber, GMATNinja. Please help.




Anud
A verb+ing modifier separated by a comma, called an adverbial modifier modifies the subject of the previous clause and more importantly its action. If it were to simply modify the subject, then it wouldn't be an adverbial modifier

First of all, please be clear about what is a previous clause in such circumstances.

Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, sporadically erupting through volcanoes

This part of the sentence is a complex sentence that has to be parsed as follows.

1. Geologists once thought --- The is the main clause-- Geologist is the subject and thought is the past tense verb
2, That the molten rock known as lava, was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days -- This a relative cum subordinate clause with 'that' as subordinate conjunction, the molten rock as the subject and 'was' as the verb.
3. 'Sporadically erupting' is an adverbial modifier modifying the subject of the relative clause 'the molten rock' and its being an underground remnant.

Please remember again that adverbial modifiers modify the subject of the previous clause and its action. If there is any other clause before that previous clause, it is out of scope for the modifier at hand. I have to stress this point because I have time and again seen people ignoring the previous clause but mechanically jumping to the main clause.

Anud,

I hope you got where you are going wrong. My sincere suggestion to you, please revisit the basic types of sentences especially those with modifiers and remove any misconceptions. Because I can tell you that the entire SC is built on sentence structure without which one can never do SC confidently.
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Re: Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava [#permalink]
DmitryFarber wrote:
That works for me, except we want a concrete reason to get rid of C. I save "wordy" for a last resort! In this case, C offers us a noun modifier: "which sporadically erupted." Earth's earliest days didn't sporadically erupt, so C is incorrect.


Which can not always refer to preceding noun, sometimes the noun is modified by a prepositional phrase, which is in this case.
Here which refers to remanat(modified by "of earth's earliest days")
I hope i'm correct.
thanks
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Re: Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava [#permalink]
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RaviChandra wrote:
Geologists once thought that the molten rock known as lava was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, sporadically erupting through volcanoes, but they now know that it is continuously created by the heat of the radioactivity deep inside the planet.


A. was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, sporadically erupting

B. had been an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days and sporadically erupted

C. was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, which sporadically erupted

D. would be an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days that sporadically erupted

E. was an underground remnant of Earth's earliest days, having sporadically erupted


Ron Purewal from Manhattan Prep
Quote:
We are retiring this problem in its current form, because it has several issues.

First, as you point out, "which" is not necessarily wrong here.

Second -- and more importantly -- the ostensibly correct answer to this problem doesn't actually work.
In choice A, the modifier "sporadically erupting..." does not describe anything in the preceding part, so it doesn't make sense as a "comma + __ing" modifier (which must meaningfully describe the subject+action of the preceding sentence).
Incidentally, choice A of the Dickinson problem (OG12 #26) is wrong for exactly the same reason!

This problem is no longer in our database. It will be replaced by an updated (and fully correct) version soon.

Because the problem is no longer in the database, this thread is now retired.

Thanks.


TOPIC IS LOCKED.
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