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Re: GMAT Focus Edition - Everything You Need to Know [#permalink]
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Hi. Welcome to the mad house! :lol:

First of all, you are trying to buy a ticket on a train that you don't know when it is leaving. The new test may be here in April or Sept. It may also be here in April but be ridden with issues - there is risk.

At the same time, It seems no content is changing in terms of what is tested on the CR or RC or Quant based on all the evidence and so you can prep without SC or at least leave the SC portion for the very end. So far no indication is given that you cannot use the materials you have even the 2014 edition of the MGMAT guides - I would expect all of them to be valid because GMAC is not going to voerhaul and completely change their questions/content/etc - there is no reason really.... they may make some very small tweaks such as remove Geometry from quant just like on EA (it is missing from the list).

But the rest is the same material, so minus SC and minus Geometry.


gmatstudyer123 wrote:
Very interesting changes... I'm very early (~2 weeks) into my GMAT studying, and here are just some thoughts swirling around in my head:
  • I would be applying for MBAs about 3-4 years later and I currently have the MGMAT 6th edition set + 2020 OG books.
  • If SC is getting removed -- a section I am weaker in -- would it be advisable to continue reviewing the MGMAT set and to omit the books whose content is being removed? In this case, SC and AWA. Or, is it expected that the question content for remaining sections such as RC will also change significantly?
  • Ideally, I would like to continue studying despite all of these changes. Would there by any issues with omitting SC + AWA and waiting to take any official practice CATs until the new Focus version is out for those? It doesn't really make sense to take the current "old" CATs since the test format + rules will be changing drastically.
  • I'd also be looking to pick up a 2023 OG once that comes out later this month.

Thank you!
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Re: GMAT Focus Edition - Everything You Need to Know [#permalink]
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Is there any information regarding total lifetime attempts? Since GRE does not have any limit, should we assume that GMAT FOCUS will go GRE's way?
bb
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satya2029 wrote:
Is there any information regarding total lifetime attempts? Since GRE does not have any limit, should we assume that GMAT FOCUS will go GRE's way?
bb


Hi. Potentially. I think moreover, people would have their lifetime counter reset on the Focus GMAT, so if you had 8 attempts, or got 800, I suspect you could take the GMAT again.... but that's speculation not corraborated by anything.


There is no information about cost, frequency of attempts, or how many life time attempts you can have.
EA has only 2 attempts for example and this test is getting modeled very closely after it.... but I think this GMAT Focus will be more like the GMAT - at least 8 attempts.... and likely a clean slate since the tests are different enough but don't hold your breath :angel:
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lecremeglace wrote:
If the old version will be in place until early 2024, does that mean we can opt in to take that version instead? I've been studying on and off again since 2021 and finally took the last few months of studying seriously. Would be good to know if I can commit to taking this mid-year without significantly changing my study schedule.


You are correct - you will be able to take the current/old version of the GMAT until early 2024.
And I would guess you could take the new version of the test on the same day if you wanted since the 2 tests will not be connected...

I wonder if they will fix the ESR and all those other issues with the GMAT Online and at least make the same score reporting system for the new test that is the same for the online and offline test... I guess we now sort of know why they stopped investing into the GMAT and features :(
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Re: GMAT Focus Edition - Everything You Need to Know [#permalink]
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Thank you doublecool for confirming the new structure.

It's nice to see that IR is being made part of the main score. GMAC certainly took their time though (I remember asking them about it ~5 years ago :)).

bb wrote:
Based on the Paul we’ve been conducting for the last two weeks, completely unrelated to this change but very relevant now it seems, the most hated section is actually reading comprehension. Critical reasoning and sentence correction are both tied as 2 most favorite ones.

My main concern is that more RC (%) may also mean more timing issues. Some test takers slow down more than others when they hit an RC passage.
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bb wrote:
Just to clarify the RC is not confirmed but the assumption that 62 min test with 36 questions minus 17 minutes and CR section = 45 mins and 22 questions with a combination of RC and CR. We don't know how many RC/CR questions will be. Perhaps it it is 11 and 11 or 10 and 12. The question is not confirmed and purely speculation at this time. However, currently GMAC is running CR/SC/RC with just 10-12 questions each of those, so there is no change really in respect of their algorithm, they just have to kill one of the sections. As one expert pointed out to me - they need at least 10 it seems to establish proficiency per the ESR (ESR lists each of the sections separately). No idea if this was clear but the main point I wanted to communicate is that the question split is ONLY a SPECULATION at this time :angel:

I agree. This isn't something test takers need to worry about. But as someone working in the field, I'll be tracking this (23 questions | 45 minutes, only RC and CR, and generally, RC > CR > SC), just to see whether it could lead to timing issues.

bb wrote:
So do we send you "Thank you" cards for including the IR into the main portion of the test? :twisted:

Haha. I get it, but give it a chance. IR is fun. :)
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MartyTargetTestPrep wrote:
Looking at some ESRs, I see that the typical test-taker who spends about 1:30 on each SC question averages under 2:00 per CR and RC question. So, for most test-takers, the 1:58 per question allotted by the GMAT Focus Edition Verbal section should be about right.

Hi MartyTargetTestPrep,

It's possible that you didn't understand the point I was trying to make.

1. As a tutor, I work closely with individuals, not big groups of students, and, as I mentioned in my first post, some test takers struggle with RC. It is those individuals I am thinking about, not test takers in general.

2. An ESR can't tell us how much time a test taker needs. It can only give us a limited view into one possible time/score combination for that test taker.

Just to be clear, I really do hope that those some ESRs you looked at of typical test takers who spend about 1:30 on each SC question are representative of the experience of most test takers.
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vv65 wrote:
Was it at the 2018 Knowledge Refresher with Dr Chris Han that you asked about IR?

Among other things, he acknowledged the problem of the Quant scores clumping together at the high end. That could be a major reason for the upcoming change.

Yes, I think it was the 2018 summit.

It'll be hard for GMAC to do anything about quant scores without increasing the difficulty of the quant section. Increasing the number of questions could have also worked, but they've opted not to do that.
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Rolodex TTP has added IR and AWA both are in the bottom chapters
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lecremeglace wrote:
If the old version will be in place until early 2024, does that mean we can opt in to take that version instead? I've been studying on and off again since 2021 and finally took the last few months of studying seriously. Would be good to know if I can commit to taking this mid-year without significantly changing my study schedule.


You are correct - you will be able to take the current/old version of the GMAT until early 2024.
And I would guess you could take the new version of the test on the same day if you wanted since the 2 tests will not be connected...

I wonder if they will fix the ESR and all those other issues with the GMAT Online and at least make the same score reporting system for the new test that is the same for the online and offline test... I guess we now sort of know why they stopped investing into the GMAT and features :(


It's very distracting(which means I have already prepared one system and now introducing a new system) while preparing for a hard test like GMAT, especially for those who are in the almost final stage of their preparation.
Overall understanding, I will be able to take the current/old version of the GMAT until early 2024, which means from now almost a year. I don't need to think about what will happen in the next year.
I will take my Gmat test in between 2-4 months. I want to solely focus on my own preparation(current/old version).
What is your recommendation to me? bb
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Archit3110 wrote:
So considering that you have not given gmat exam before then you have 5 attempts for 2023 and 3 attempts for 2024 ..


A small correction to these numbers

GMAC doesn't consider calendar year to consider the limits.

Ex: if a person gives his / her 5th attempt in the month of Dec'23, he/she will not be able to give the 6th attempt in Jan'24 (just because the year has changed).

The attempt limits are 5 in a rolling 12-month period.
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I don't think anyone has mentioned the underlined part of the official statement:


It seems that "homing in on data literacy" will be accomplished by the GMAT's new Data Insights (aka IR+DS) section, but what about "higher-order critical reasoning skills"?
If the test-makers intend to continue asking the same types of Critical Reasoning questions, they wouldn't bother adding this line to their press release.

I have a feeling that higher-order critical reasoning skills is referring to the new sections titled Inductive Reasoning and Deductive Reasoning that were introduced in the 2022 OG. You can find them on pages 399 to 423 of the OG2022.

Historically, most of the GMAT'S CR questions require inductive reasoning.
The new Deductive Reasoning section of the OG2022 covers a lot of formal logic (e.g., If A then B is logically equivalent to if not B then not A), and I have a hunch we will be seeing a greater proportion of CR questions requiring deductive reasoning in the OG2023.
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BrentGMATPrepNow wrote:
I don't think anyone has mentioned the underlined part of the official statement:


It seems that "homing in on data literacy" will be accomplished by the GMAT's new Data Insights (aka IR+DS) section, but what about "higher-order critical reasoning skills"?
If the test-makers intend to continue asking the same types of Critical Reasoning questions, they wouldn't bother adding this line to their press release.

I have a feeling that higher-order critical reasoning skills is referring to the new sections titled Inductive Reasoning and Deductive Reasoning that were introduced in the 2022 OG. You can find them on pages 399 to 423 of the OG2022.

Historically, most of the GMAT'S CR questions require inductive reasoning.
The new Deductive Reasoning section of the OG2022 covers a lot of formal logic (e.g., If A then B is logically equivalent to if not B then not A), and I have a hunch we will be seeing a greater proportion of CR questions requiring deductive reasoning in the OG2023.


Those fans of the LSAT questions should say "wooohooooo"""
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Hi BrentGMATPrepNow
Isn't so that the OG 2022 had no new questions?

By page numbers you referring to CR questions?

https://gmatclub.com/forum/gmat-officia ... l#p2733439




BrentGMATPrepNow wrote:
I don't think anyone has mentioned the underlined part of the official statement:


It seems that "homing in on data literacy" will be accomplished by the GMAT's new Data Insights (aka IR+DS) section, but what about "higher-order critical reasoning skills"?
If the test-makers intend to continue asking the same types of Critical Reasoning questions, they wouldn't bother adding this line to their press release.

I have a feeling that higher-order critical reasoning skills is referring to the new sections titled Inductive Reasoning and Deductive Reasoning that were introduced in the 2022 OG. You can find them on pages 399 to 423 of the OG2022.

Historically, most of the GMAT'S CR questions require inductive reasoning.
The new Deductive Reasoning section of the OG2022 covers a lot of formal logic (e.g., If A then B is logically equivalent to if not B then not A), and I have a hunch we will be seeing a greater proportion of CR questions requiring deductive reasoning in the OG2023.


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Archit3110 wrote:
Hi BrentGMATPrepNow
Isn't so that the OG 2022 had no new questions?

By page numbers you referring to CR questions?

https://gmatclub.com/forum/gmat-officia ... l#p2733439


The OG2021 and OG2022 had the same CR questions, but the OG2021 never had the Inductive Reasoning and Deductive Reasoning sections.

The Inductive Reasoning and Deductive Reasoning sections are on pages 399 to 423 of the OG2022.
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Thank you so much for pointing this out. I feel like every time I go through the announcement I keep noticing something new and every time I go through the table of contents I’m noticing some thing you as well. First time, I did not spot the geometry has been cut.

I can see this being an attempt to win some market share from both GRE and LSAT and potentially consolidate executive assessment into this product as well. It would make G max job easier if they don’t have to administer two tests…


BrentGMATPrepNow wrote:
I don't think anyone has mentioned the underlined part of the official statement:


It seems that "homing in on data literacy" will be accomplished by the GMAT's new Data Insights (aka IR+DS) section, but what about "higher-order critical reasoning skills"?
If the test-makers intend to continue asking the same types of Critical Reasoning questions, they wouldn't bother adding this line to their press release.

I have a feeling that higher-order critical reasoning skills is referring to the new sections titled Inductive Reasoning and Deductive Reasoning that were introduced in the 2022 OG. You can find them on pages 399 to 423 of the OG2022.

Historically, most of the GMAT'S CR questions require inductive reasoning.
The new Deductive Reasoning section of the OG2022 covers a lot of formal logic (e.g., If A then B is logically equivalent to if not B then not A), and I have a hunch we will be seeing a greater proportion of CR questions requiring deductive reasoning in the OG2023.


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BrentGMATPrepNow
Yeah sure :)
Let me make one as well..

Hope the new version is not limited to be an only online exam :shock: that way GMAC can save some more cost of renting centers :|

BrentGMATPrepNow wrote:
Archit3110 wrote:
Lets wait for OG to be released no point speculating about something which isn't official yet... 🤔
Posted from my mobile device


I plan to continue speculating if it's okay with you :)
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