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Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of

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ninadk
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Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   Updated on: 06 Apr 2019, 02:40
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Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of Napoleon in the decades after the French Revolution was the necessary outcome of the political vacuum having been created by the toppled monarchy.


A. was the necessary outcome of the political vacuum having been created by the toppled monarchy
B. was the necessary outcome of the political vacuum created by toppling the monarchy
C. were the necessary outcome of the political vacuum that the toppled monarchy created
D. was the necessary outcome of the political vacuum created from toppling the monarchy
E. were the necessary outcome of the political vacuum created by the toppling of the monarchy
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E

Originally posted by ninadk on 06 Jun 2006, 16:40.
Last edited by Bunuel on 06 Apr 2019, 02:40, edited 1 time in total.
Renamed the topic and edited the question.
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   29 Jul 2019, 10:18
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rishab0507 wrote:
Shobhit7 wrote:
"Rise and Fall" is a compound subject and hence requires a plural verb.
So, it's C vs E

C. were the necessary outcome of the political vacuum that the toppled monarchy created:
that the toppled monarchy created changes the meaning by implying that toppled monarchy is the doer of the action- rise and fall of Napoleon.

E. were the necessary outcome of the political vacuum created by the toppling of the monarchy:
created by the toppling of the monarchy is the correct version as the toppling of monarchy is the cause that led to the rise and fall of Napoleon in the decades after the French Revolution.



You are correct rise and fall is a compound subject, But rise and fall is a compound which happen together , Like winning and loosing is a part of game: We don't say ARE part of game. By this idea, Rise and fall should be singular . If subject is joined by AND, and are two different things, like her mother and sister : we can use plural, But why here ?
experts here,GMATNinja ,GMATNinja2 Can you please help and elaborate

That's a painfully good question, rishab0507! I think this is a really, really slippery issue, and it defies rules, just because it depends on what, exactly you think is a "compound action". Personally, I would write "the rise and fall of Napoleon WAS unfortunate...", because it seems that all of that happened as one singular arc of history. I would also write "winning and losing ARE part of the game", because "winning" and "losing" seem like two separate actions to me.

But that's just my opinion. These are a judgment call, and defy any strict rules.

More importantly: please don't worry about this AT ALL! You're not going to see a dodgy judgment call on this issue on an actual GMAT question -- and the question in this thread very clearly is not an official question, so it very much is not worth your energy.

So there's room for an interesting, geeky discussion on this nuance of subject-verb agreement. But it's also 100% irrelevant to your success on the GMAT. :)

I hope this helps!
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   11 Apr 2019, 05:28
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isnt, necessary outcomes ( plural form) required?
rise and fall were necessary outcomes....
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   08 Jun 2006, 10:27
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OA is E.


The original sentence contains a subject-verb problem: "the spectacular rise and fall of Napoleon" is a plural noun, but the corresponding verb "was" is singular. Moreover, "having been created" is unnecessarily complex. "Created by" would have been sufficient. Finally, it is not the "toppled monarchy" that created the vacuum but rather the fact that the monarchy was toppled.
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   09 Jul 2016, 20:19
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I am really confused here, and this discussion is making everything more blurry.

Can anyone please help here. My doubt is:

first it is rise then it is fall. it cant be one even , it have to be two events. if you say A and b it sounds plural. so subject is plural. 'were' is needed.

'created by' is correct idiom. so probably E, still not sure.
lets see the meaning of both parts.
toppled monarchy created the vacuum or toppling of the monarchy created the vacuum.
Not sure here E seems better though. some one please help.
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   06 Apr 2019, 02:24
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OFFICIAL EXPLANATION

The correct answer is E. The original sentence contains a subject-verb problem: "the spectacular rise and fall of Napoleon" is a plural noun, but the corresponding verb "was" is singular. Moreover, "having been created" is unnecessarily complex. "Created by" would have been sufficient. Finally, it is not the "toppled monarchy" that created the vacuum but rather the fact that the monarchy was toppled. Choice A repeats the original sentence. Incorrect. Choice B does not correct the subject-verb problem. Incorrect. Choice C corrects the subject-verb problem but not the "toppled monarchy" issue. Incorrect. Choice D does not correct the subject-verb issue. Incorrect. Choice E corrects all the problems without creating any new ones. Correct.
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   13 Apr 2019, 05:38
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"Rise and Fall" is a compound subject and hence requires a plural verb.
So, it's C vs E

C. were the necessary outcome of the political vacuum that the toppled monarchy created:
that the toppled monarchy created changes the meaning by implying that toppled monarchy is the doer of the action- rise and fall of Napoleon.

E. were the necessary outcome of the political vacuum created by the toppling of the monarchy:
created by the toppling of the monarchy is the correct version as the toppling of monarchy is the cause that led to the rise and fall of Napoleon in the decades after the French Revolution.
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Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   27 Jul 2019, 04:54
Shobhit7 wrote:
"Rise and Fall" is a compound subject and hence requires a plural verb.
So, it's C vs E

C. were the necessary outcome of the political vacuum that the toppled monarchy created:
that the toppled monarchy created changes the meaning by implying that toppled monarchy is the doer of the action- rise and fall of Napoleon.

E. were the necessary outcome of the political vacuum created by the toppling of the monarchy:
created by the toppling of the monarchy is the correct version as the toppling of monarchy is the cause that led to the rise and fall of Napoleon in the decades after the French Revolution.



You are correct rise and fall is a compound subject, But rise and fall is a compound which happen together , Like winning and loosing is a part of game: We don't say ARE part of game. By this idea, Rise and fall should be singular . If subject is joined by AND, and are two different things, like her mother and sister : we can use plural, But why here ?
experts here,GMATNinja ,GMATNinja2 Can you please help and elaborate
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Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   08 Sep 2019, 04:35
Can anybody clarify why the sentence formed as "were outcome" not as "were outcomes"?
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   08 Sep 2019, 04:38
Skyline393 wrote:
OFFICIAL EXPLANATION

The correct answer is E. The original sentence contains a subject-verb problem: "the spectacular rise and fall of Napoleon" is a plural noun, but the corresponding verb "was" is singular. Moreover, "having been created" is unnecessarily complex. "Created by" would have been sufficient. Finally, it is not the "toppled monarchy" that created the vacuum but rather the fact that the monarchy was toppled. Choice A repeats the original sentence. Incorrect. Choice B does not correct the subject-verb problem. Incorrect. Choice C corrects the subject-verb problem but not the "toppled monarchy" issue. Incorrect. Choice D does not correct the subject-verb issue. Incorrect. Choice E corrects all the problems without creating any new ones. Correct.


Kindly let us know why it is " were become" not 'were becomes"?
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   09 Sep 2019, 06:50
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Tamal
You mean outcome and outcomes I suppose rather than become and becomes.
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Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   09 Sep 2019, 11:07
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Rise and fall need not go together always. There are so many instances of only a rise but not a fall. Alexander the great, never lost a war in his life time and remained the emperor of Greek and Persia until his very death. Can any one say describe anything as the rise and fall of the US. This compounding is appropriate only when the factors happen to belong to one and the same person as in for example, the director and the producer Spielberg or the producer and the actor Raj Kapoor.
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   09 Sep 2019, 11:21
Is "the toppling of the monarchy" right? Please help.
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   09 Sep 2019, 19:19
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Im279 wrote:
Is "the toppling of the monarchy" right? Please help.
Hi Im279,

The toppling of the monarchy is fine. Do you have a specific doubt about that phrase?
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   09 Sep 2019, 22:01
daagh wrote:
Rise and fall need not go together always. There are so many instances of only a rise but not a fall. Alexander the great, never lost a war in his life time and remained the emperor of Greek and Persia until his very death. Can any one say describe anything as the rise and fall of the US. This compounding is appropriate only when the factors happen to belong to one and the same person as in for example, the director and the producer Spielberg or the producer and the actor Raj Kapoor.


can you please explain a bit more , when to consider a compound subject separated by and as singular and in which cases to be considered as plural.
In the below case
the director and the producer Spielberg , since both of the items are describing Spielberg we will consider singular ?
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   09 Sep 2019, 22:16
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yes; in all other cases, it should be plural, because they literally refer to two different entities. The notable exception to this is the idiomatic use of 'bread and butter', which is considered singular and refers to one's means of income rather than to the type of staple foods it mentions.
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   10 Sep 2019, 03:12
AjiteshArun wrote:
Im279 wrote:
Is "the toppling of the monarchy" right? Please help.
Hi Im279,

The toppling of the monarchy is fine. Do you have a specific doubt about that phrase?


Thank you!

I am a little confused about the use of "toppling" as a verb in the sentence.

As far as I understand an "-ing verb" can act as a verb, noun, or an adjective, but it can not be taken as a verb if it is not preceded by a linking verb. Please help me understand in what all circumstances an "-ing verb" can be taken as a verb. Any link will also do.
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   10 Sep 2019, 06:20
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Im279 wrote:
Thank you!

I am a little confused about the use of "toppling" as a verb in the sentence.

As far as I understand an "-ing verb" can act as a verb, noun, or an adjective, but it can not be taken as a verb if it is not preceded by a linking verb. Please help me understand in what all circumstances an "-ing verb" can be taken as a verb. Any link will also do.
Hi Im279,

Toppling is not a verb or part of a verb (here). One easy way to check for this is to take the the into account. After a the, we will (eventually) get a noun or something acting as a noun.
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   20 Oct 2019, 08:43
susmitha2110 wrote:
isnt, necessary outcomes ( plural form) required?
rise and fall were necessary outcomes....

Exactly the reason why I chose B to E. :/
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink] New post   21 Apr 2020, 05:06
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Since the sentence is saying that.. Scientists have long debated wether... can we take this as Subjunctive, hence the use of 'were' ?
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Re: Historians have long debated whether the spectacular rise and fall of [#permalink]
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