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Re: Technically, quicksand is the term for sand that is so saturated wit [#permalink]
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BLTN wrote:
what second "that" stand for, Waster ? Can pronouns "that" refer to different nouns?


that does not always stand in for a noun.
It has MANY uses.
Here are two sites that list some common usages:
https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2015/10/so-as-so-that.html
https://www.thoughtco.com/uses-of-that-1210017

The sand is so saturated...that it acquires the character of a liquid.
Here, that is not a pronoun but a CONJUNCTION serving to connect the green clause to the blue clause.
The conveyed meaning is that the green clause is the CONSEQUENCE of the blue clause.
it acquires the character of a liquid = the consequence of the sand is so saturated
Since in this usage that is not a pronoun, it does not stand in for a particular noun.
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Re: Technically, quicksand is the term for sand that is so saturated wit [#permalink]
AndrewN wrote:
Anyway, the character of a liquid already suggests the seems that you wanted to insert to clarify the matter in your second sentence. The character of something just implies a similarity, not an exact likeness. For instance, if I say that "pop" dancing has acquired the character of fluid movement over the years (look up David Elsewhere on YouTube if you are unfamiliar with this style of dance), you should understand that I am not comparing a dance to water, just that I am remarking on a similarity in movement that I perceive between the two.

My advice: stick with what is on the screen. Adapt your approach to the question at hand, and if you miss it, use the opportunity to build your understanding.

- Andrew


hi AndrewN, I like your approach,
would you please help check my approach, of course, less efficient than yours.

D,E, "saturated" modifies sand, and words "so as to" and "so much as to " shows term acquire a liquid character, so I think it is illogical, how can a term acquire a character.

C: I thought saturated and enough are redundant, because saturate means sucks a lot lot lot of water.
A: "so as to" leads me think what subject acquire, sand can be subject if "that is so saturated with water" as modifier, or term can be subject if "that is so saturated with water as to acquire a liquid's character".

B wins.

seems there is no posts mentioned similar approach as mine, so I need your confirmation.

thanks in advance.

Originally posted by zoezhuyan on 16 Apr 2021, 01:28.
Last edited by zoezhuyan on 17 Apr 2021, 17:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Technically, quicksand is the term for sand that is so saturated wit [#permalink]
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zoezhuyan wrote:
hi ANDREW, I like your approach,
would you please help check my approach, of course, less efficient than yours.

D,E, "saturated" modifies sand, and words "so as to" and "so much as to " shows term acquire a liquid character, so I think it is illogical, how can a term acquire a character.

C: I thought saturated and enough are redundant, because saturate means sucks a lot lot lot of water.
A: "so as to" leads me think what subject acquire, sand can be subject if "that is so saturated with water" as modifier, or term can be subject if "that is so saturated with water as to acquire a liquid's character".

B wins.

seems there is no posts mentioned similar approach as mine, so I need your confirmation.

thanks in advance.

Hello, zoezhuyan. Thank you for the kind words. I often say that there are only two "wrong" ways of arriving at the correct answer: cheating and blundering into it. You had solid reasons for eliminating answer choices, one group at a time, then one at a time, until you arrived at what you thought was the hardest answer to argue against. Such an approach is exactly what you should be doing. So, regardless of whether your approach is slightly different from mine or from that of any other Expert, as long as you have reached that answer by making an informed decision, you have done well. (I like to post in the Quant forum from time to time to offer alternative ways of reaching the same answer. Creativity is often a sign of a stronger understanding of the material.)

- Andrew
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Re: Technically, quicksand is the term for sand that is so saturated wit [#permalink]
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Foi2Evei2 wrote:
Could you help to elaborate more on this issue?


Generally, an apostrophe implies POSSESSION.
Case 1: a liquid's character
Here, the phrase in red seems to emphasize how no two liquids are the same.
Ocean water is COLD AND BLUE.
Grape juice is PURPLE AND SWEET.
Melted wax is STICKY AND WARM.

The usage of the apostrophe implies that every liquid POSSESSES a unique character -- a character different from that of every other liquid.

Case 2: the character of a liquid
Here, the phrase in green conveys how THE CHARACTER of a liquid differs from that of a NON-LIQUID.
Whereas regular soil is DRY AND SOLID (the character of a non-liquid), quicksand is MOIST AND UNSTABLE (the character of a liquid).
Case 2 conveys the intended meaning of the OA.

I would not worry too much about this issue.
The difference between the two cases is quite subtle.
The best reason to eliminate A is its misuse of so X as to Y.
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Re: Technically, quicksand is the term for sand that is so saturated wit [#permalink]
Dear experts,
In option (A), OG says that: "the matter of degree is introduced with the word so, which is used to indicate that the relevant degree of saturation will be specified with a clause that states a condition - a statement that includes both a subject and a verb - that implies a certain degree of saturation. Lacking a subject, this sentence fails to state a clear condition."
Can you please explain why this sentence has no subject? Isn't "the term, Quicksand" is the subject? And doesn't this sentence follow proper stucture of "so as to"?
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Re: Technically, quicksand is the term for sand that is so saturated wit [#permalink]
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Pranjal07 wrote:
Dear experts,
In option (A), OG says that: Lacking a subject, this sentence fails to state a clear condition."
Can you please explain why this sentence has no subject?


The explanation in the OG refers to the portion after the so-modifier.

OA: sand that is so saturated with water that it acquires the character of a liquid
Here, the green portion has an explicit subject and verb (it acquires).

A: sand that is so saturated with water as to acquire a liquid's character
Here, the red portion includes an infinitive (to acquire) but lacks an explicit subject and verb.

Quote:
And doesn't this sentence follow proper stucture of "so as to"?


In A, the usage of so X as to Y is inappropriate.
Check my earlier post for an explanation.
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Technically, quicksand is the term for sand that is so saturated wit [#permalink]
AndrewN wrote:
Pankaj0901 wrote:
AndrewN
I have gone through the entire thread (4 pages), but nowhere is the explanation provided by experts overlapping with OG's explanation (screenshot from OG attached).

OG'19 explains that in Option A there is a missing subject (hence Option A is eliminated), whereas Option B solves this issue by placing the subject, "it". Could you please elaborate the OG's point? Thanks

I understood the idiom application explained by experts in this thread.


Bunuel wrote:
Technically, "quicksand" is the term for sand that is so saturated with water as to acquire a liquid's character.

(A) that is so saturated with water as to acquire a liquid's character
(B) that is so saturated with water that it acquires the character of a liquid
(C) that is saturated with water enough to acquire liquid characteristics
(D) saturated enough with water so as to acquire the character of a liquid
(E) saturated with water so much as to acquire a liquid character

NEW question from GMAT® Official Guide 2019


(SC00971)

Hello, Pankaj0901. I think the OA describes just what it means to convey, that so _____ in this context, a construct that indicates the extent of something, will precede an embedded clause—that...—to draw a proper comparison (the clear condition of the OA). In any case, I did not approach the question with such a consideration. Instead, I considered (A) through (C) as one cluster and (D) and (E) as another. Here, that is warranted at the head of the underlined portion because sand serves as the subject of the embedded clause (and could stand in for that). Then, (C) is the odd one out because it adopts a juvenile-sounding saturated... enough that also focuses on the lower limit of saturation rather than emphasizing that same degree of saturation (by using so saturated). That is, if the sentence aims to compare quicksand to water, then so saturated is more fitting.


- Andrew


Hi AndrewN - when I read the bit in pink from you, I got confused

Why did you eliminate D and E, just because D and E started with a past participle whereas A/B/C start with a "THAT".

Is there a subtle difference between the two from a meaning perspective ?

Per my understanding there is no difference between these two sentences.

This is a bucket THAT is filled with water
This is a bucket FILLED with water
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Re: Technically, quicksand is the term for sand that is so saturated wit [#permalink]
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jabhatta2 wrote:
Hi AndrewN - when I read the bit in pink from you, I got confused

Why did you eliminate D and E, just because D and E started with a past participle whereas A/B/C start with a "THAT".

Is there a subtle difference between the two from a meaning perspective ?

Per my understanding there is no difference between these two sentences.

This is a bucket THAT is filled with water
This is a bucket FILLED with water

Hello, jabhatta2. Apologies for the confusion. What I meant to say was simply that I separated the five answer choices into two groups based on the head of the line, those that start with that and those that do not. I did NOT use a missing that to eliminate (D) or (E). Rather, I had a serious doubt about (D) as soon as I hit the second word, enough. Why would the sentence need to say saturated enough when a clearer alternative exists in so saturated? Meanwhile, (E) suffers from a similar problem in saturated... so much. How is that better than so saturated? How can something be saturated so much? These are compelling reasons to doubt the soundness of (D) or (E). As for your bucket sentences, yes, either one would do.

I hope that clarifies your concerns about my earlier post. Thank you for thinking to ask.

- Andrew
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Technically, quicksand is the term for sand that is so saturated wit [#permalink]
AndrewN wrote:
jabhatta2 wrote:
Hi AndrewN - when I read the bit in pink from you, I got confused

Why did you eliminate D and E, just because D and E started with a past participle whereas A/B/C start with a "THAT".

Is there a subtle difference between the two from a meaning perspective ?

Per my understanding there is no difference between these two sentences.

This is a bucket THAT is filled with water
This is a bucket FILLED with water

Hello, jabhatta2. Apologies for the confusion. What I meant to say was simply that I separated the five answer choices into two groups based on the head of the line, those that start with that and those that do not. I did NOT use a missing that to eliminate (D) or (E). Rather, I had a serious doubt about (D) as soon as I hit the second word, enough. Why would the sentence need to say saturated enough when a clearer alternative exists in so saturated? Meanwhile, (E) suffers from a similar problem in saturated... so much. How is that better than so saturated? How can something be saturated so much? These are compelling reasons to doubt the soundness of (D) or (E). As for your bucket sentences, yes, either one would do.

I hope that clarifies your concerns about my earlier post. Thank you for thinking to ask.

- Andrew


Hi AndrewN - if i understand correctly, what you are saying is
i. so saturated > saturated ENOUGH

I actually thought both were equivalent.

Why do you think so saturated > saturated ENOUGH

example below sentences : i thought so saturated = satured enough

The chicken is so saturated with fat to the point that the chicken cannot be eaten
The chicken is satured enough with fat to the point that the chicken cannot be eaten

I think satured enough is wrong becuase it changes the meaning a bit. satured enough is giving almost a "lower limit" of fat content in the chicken whereas so saturated is perhaps talking about the fat content in general (no min amount is being referenced)
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jabhatta2 wrote:
Hi AndrewN - if i understand correctly, what you are saying is
i. so saturated > saturated ENOUGH

I actually thought both were equivalent.

Why do you think so saturated > saturated ENOUGH

example below sentences : i thought so saturated = satured enough

The chicken is so saturated with fat to the point that the chicken cannot be eaten
The chicken is satured enough with fat to the point that the chicken cannot be eaten

I think satured enough is wrong becuase it changes the meaning a bit. satured enough is giving almost a "lower limit" of fat content in the chicken whereas so saturated is perhaps talking about the fat content in general (no min amount is being referenced)

I understand the logic behind your post, and the meaning conveyed by the two saturated sentences is indeed somewhat different, jabhatta2, but saturated enough is not idiomatically sound in the sentence at hand. Using the chicken example, why not simply state that the chicken is saturated to the point that it cannot be eaten? Saturated + enough conveys nothing in the way of clarity that the more streamlined iteration lacks. As a matter of fact, the word saturated falls into a family of words that come pre-packaged to express a large degree of something. Another such word is tempestuous (quite stormy). Not only is so tempestuous that perfectly sound, but once again, tempestuous enough is not. Perhaps because the word was created to convey an extreme condition, it makes less sense to set a lower limit on the extreme. (Is it barely tempestuous? Why not say stormy instead?) I would not urge you to commit to memory a list of these so-called degree words. They may rarely pop up on the test, as in the original question, but if they do, you should take a moment to consider the meaning of the word and how it interacts with others around it, including adverbs. And when in doubt, go with the safest option, not the one you have to rationalize to make work.

- Andrew
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Technically, quicksand is the term for sand that is so saturated wit [#permalink]
Hi avigutman - just curious, can you solve this problem without idioms ?

Here were my thoughts

-- Eliminate C because water enough in option C is not as clean as "saturated enough" in option D. Hence option C cannot be as strong as option D. Hence C is not as good as D and thus I can eliminate C.

-- E eliminate because I dont know if
a) so much in E is supposed to be an adjective to water
OR
b) is E using the expression " I filled in for her so much as to do all her work for her

But between A/B/D -- just wasn't sure.
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Re: Technically, quicksand is the term for sand that is so saturated wit [#permalink]
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jabhatta2 wrote:
Hi avigutman - just curious, can you solve this problem without idioms ?

Here were my thoughts

-- Eliminate C because water enough in option C is not as clean as "saturated enough" in option D. Hence option C cannot be as strong as option D. Hence C is not as good as D and thus I can eliminate C.

-- E eliminate because I dont know if
a) so much in E is supposed to be an adjective to water
OR
b) is E using the expression " I filled in for her so much as to do all her work for her

But between A/B/D -- just wasn't sure.


jabhatta2 I'm afraid I don't have much to add here. I think this was an excellent analysis of a meaning-based reason to eliminate A:

GMATGuruNY wrote:
A dog's eyes can reveal much about its temperament.
Here, the phrase in blue implies that every dog has UNIQUE eyes -- eyes that can reveal much about the dog's temperament.

A: a liquid's character
This phrase seems to imply that every liquid has a UNIQUE character.
Not the intended meaning.
The intention here is to discuss the general nature of any given liquid.
The OA correctly expresses this meaning:
"Quicksand"... is so saturated with water that it acquires the character of a liquid.
Here, THE CHARACTER of a liquid = the general nature of any given liquid.
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EMPOWERgmatVerbal wrote:
Hello Everyone!

Even though the stats for this question show it's a tricky one, we can narrow down to the right option by exploiting the error type clues.

Let's start by looking at the differences in the options:

1. that is so saturated / saturated enough
2. acquires / to acquire
3. character / characteristics


Verb tenses are often an easy place to start narrowing down options, so definitely let's start by tackling #2 on our list: acquires vs. to acquire.

When we use the to+verb combination, it implies intention. This means that when we say the sand wants "to acquire" the characteristics of water, it is a thinking, breathing, intentional being that chooses to go out and get the characteristics of water. We know that sand isn't a living thing that has intentions of its own. Therefore, it isn't appropriate to say "to acquire." Here are some examples:

I want to acquire the rights to that song for my movie. = CORRECT (I'm a person with thoughts and intentions, so it's okay.)

The chair is so short as to acquire the perfect balance for short children. = WRONG (A chair can't want "to acquire" balance from somewhere - it's either balanced or it's not. The chair can't decide for itself what it wants to be!)

The school acquires new students every fall. = CORRECT (Just saying "acquires" doesn't imply intention is involved. It just happens, so it's okay.)

Now, let's use that understanding and we'll be able to decimate the incorrect options. Check it out:

(A) that is so saturated with water as to acquire a liquid's character

(B) that is so saturated with water that it acquires the character of a liquid

(C) that is saturated with water enough to acquire liquid characteristics

(D) saturated enough with water so as to acquire the character of a liquid

(E) saturated with water so much as to acquire a liquid character


There we have it. The only answer that doesn't imply that sand or quicksand "chooses" to take on the characteristics of a liquid is answer B.

Don’t study for the GMAT. Train for it.



I don't see your explanation is apt for this question.
Refer below sentences on top English websites,they have used this kind of structure,so I don't see any problem with that.

1.)The numbers coming out of Exxon Mobil XOM 0.37% were so good as to be slightly embarrassing. (https://www.wsj.com/articles/no-more-ti … 1517589782)

2.)Potential penalties would be so low as to have no relevance for financial markets. (https://www.wsj.com/articles/investor-t … 1536256548)

3.)The company’s descriptions of the partnership dealings were so complicated as to be practically indecipherable. (https://jp.wsj.com/articles/SB1011560211577333280.djm)

Credits: ChiranjeevSingh


Hey GMATNinja GMATNinjaTwo VeritasKarishma

please provide explanation for this question
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Bunuel wrote:
Technically, "quicksand" is the term for sand that is so saturated with water as to acquire a liquid's character.

(A) that is so saturated with water as to acquire a liquid's character

(B) that is so saturated with water that it acquires the character of a liquid

(C) that is saturated with water enough to acquire liquid characteristics

(D) saturated enough with water so as to acquire the character of a liquid

(E) saturated with water so much as to acquire a liquid character


(SC00971)



"character of a liquid" is correct in this context.
"acquires a liquid's character" indicates a possessive quality.
"acquires the character of a liquid" - Here, "of a liquid" modifies the character. The kind of character it acquires.
"liquid character" doesn't make sense since character cannot be liquid. It can be good or bad, but not liquid.

This brings us to (B) and (D).

(D) saturated enough with water so as to acquire the character of a liquid
"so as to" appearing together usually means "in order to" or "with the intention of"
Note that I wouldn't have much problem with "so saturated as to acquire..."

In this context, I would rather use "so saturated that it acquires..." (a consequence).
Hence (B) is much better.

At the end of the day, it depends on what options I have available.
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Re: Technically, quicksand is the term for sand that is so saturated wit [#permalink]
GMATGuruNY, GMATNinja

Here is another question with "so..as to" and "so...that" constructions in the answer choices.

https://gmatclub.com/forum/often-major- ... 94376.html

In the above question choice A is preferable to all other choices and therefore is the correct answer. But if we were to change choice (C) "so gradual that they are unable to be distinguished" to "so gradual that they are indistinguishable" would the answer choice still be A?

I suppose yes, because it seems that the question is trying to say that ordinary fluctuations and gradual economic shifts are "seemingly" analogous. It is not trying to say that they are IN FACT the same.

Could you tell me whether I am correct in my thinking?
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Jue wrote:
Here is another question with "so..as to" and "so...that" constructions in the answer choices.

https://gmatclub.com/forum/often-major- ... 94376.html

In the above question choice A is preferable to all other choices and therefore is the correct answer. But if we were to change choice (C) "so gradual that they are unable to be distinguished" to "so gradual that they are indistinguishable" would the answer choice still be A?

I suppose yes, because it seems that the question is trying to say that ordinary fluctuations and gradual economic shifts are "seemingly" analogous. It is not trying to say that they are IN FACT the same.

Could you tell me whether I am correct in my thinking?


Your thinking is correct -- nice work!

OA: Often major economic shifts are so gradual as to be indistinguishable at first from ordinary fluctuations in the financial markets.
C, revised: Often major economic shifts are so gradual that they are indistinguishable at first from ordinary fluctuations in the financial markets.

Whereas the OA conveys that the shifts SEEM indistinguishable but are not in FACT indistinguishable, your revision of C conveys that the shifts are in FACT indistinguishable.
It is highly unlikely that the GMAT would ask us to choose between the two meanings, since both seem logical.
That said -- if forced to choose -- we should select A.
If the original sentence conveys a logical meaning, eliminate any answer choice that distorts that meaning.
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Re: Technically, quicksand is the term for sand that is so saturated wit [#permalink]
Hi GMATNinja egmat DmitryFarber,

Although B seems best, as "to acquire" shows intention.
But I have a doubt in B regarding parallelism.

So....that

because of so....that, phrase/clause after "so" should be parallel with phrase/clause after "that"

but in B, after "that" it contains "it"
now we know "it" refers to "sand", but as "sand" is common, how can we repeat the subject? it would make it illogical.

sand that is so saturated with water that it acquires the character of a liquid

Help me out to understand, if they maintain, parallelism.

Thanks & Regards
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