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Re: If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z? [#permalink]
Bunuel wrote:

Tough and Tricky questions: Geometry.



Attachment:
2014-10-28_1925.png
If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z?

(1) xq + sy + sx + yq = zr
(2) zq – ry = rx – zs



On simplifying the given equation we have x+y=s+q
Also z=180-(x+y) or z=180-(s+q) or z=180-(r)

St 1 says : q(x+y)+s(x+y)=z*r or (s+q)^2=zr

or r^2=zr---> either r=0 or r=z.....

Now r/neq{0} so r=z...sufficient

St 2 says z(s+q)=r(x+y) or z=r or s+q=0...
Now s+q /neq{0}....so z=r...

Ans should be D... :|


Bunuel....Explanation please
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Re: If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z? [#permalink]
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Forget conventional ways of solving math questions. In DS, Variable approach is the easiest and quickest way to find the answer without actually solving the problem. Remember equal number of variables and independent equations ensures a solution.


If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z?

(1) xq + sy + sx + yq = zr
(2) zq – ry = rx – zs

When you modify the original condition and the question, x-q=s-y becomes x+y=s+q, 180-z=180-r, z=r, and z=r=?. However, for 1), (q+s)+y(q+s)=zr=r^2, (x+y)(q+s)=r^2, (180-z)(180-r)=r^2, (180-r)^2=r^2 -> 180-r=r. 180-r=-r becomes 180=0, which is impossible. In 180-r=r, r=90, which is unique and sufficient.
For 2), it becomes z(q+s)=r(x+y), z=r. However, since this is only a restatement to the original condition, it is not sufficient. Therefore, the answer is A.


 Once we modify the original condition and the question according to the variable approach method 1, we can solve approximately 30% of DS questions.
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If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z? [#permalink]
WoundedTiger wrote:
Bunuel wrote:

Tough and Tricky questions: Geometry.



Attachment:
2014-10-28_1925.png
If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z?

(1) xq + sy + sx + yq = zr
(2) zq – ry = rx – zs



On simplifying the given equation we have x+y=s+q
Also z=180-(x+y) or z=180-(s+q) or z=180-(r)

St 1 says : q(x+y)+s(x+y)=z*r or (s+q)^2=zr

or r^2=zr---> either r=0 or r=z.....

Now r/neq{0} so r=z...sufficient

St 2 says z(s+q)=r(x+y) or z=r or s+q=0...
Now s+q /neq{0}....so z=r...

Ans should be D... :|


Bunuel can you explain why the D will not be the right if we go by above approach ?
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Re: If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z? [#permalink]
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shringi87 wrote:
WoundedTiger wrote:
Bunuel wrote:

Tough and Tricky questions: Geometry.





If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z?

(1) xq + sy + sx + yq = zr
(2) zq – ry = rx – zs



On simplifying the given equation we have x+y=s+q
Also z=180-(x+y) or z=180-(s+q) or z=180-(r)

St 1 says : q(x+y)+s(x+y)=z*r or (s+q)^2=zr

or r^2=zr---> either r=0 or r=z.....

Now r/neq{0} so r=z...sufficient

St 2 says z(s+q)=r(x+y) or z=r or s+q=0...
Now s+q /neq{0}....so z=r...

Ans should be D... :|


Bunuel can you explain why the D will not be the right if we go by above approach ?


For (2): z/(x + y) = r/(q + s).

Consider the following cases:

z = r = 20 and x + y = q + s = 160.
z = r = 30 and x + y = q + s = 150
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If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z? [#permalink]
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x – q = s – y
=> x+y =s+q
=>180-z=180-r
=> z=r
statement 1
xq + sy + sx + yq = zr
(x+y)(s+q)=zr
(s+q)^2=r^2
(180-r)^2=r ^2
=>r=90 (sufficient)
statement 2
zq – ry = rx – zs
z(s+q)=r(x+y)
=> z=r not sufficient
Hence option A is correct

Originally posted by Raksat on 28 Mar 2018, 02:55.
Last edited by Raksat on 30 Mar 2018, 10:07, edited 1 time in total.
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If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z? [#permalink]
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Bunuel wrote:

Tough and Tricky questions: Geometry.





If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z?

(1) xq + sy + sx + yq = zr
(2) zq – ry = rx – zs

Attachment:
2014-10-28_1925.png


Analyzing question stem:

x – q = s – y

x + y = s + q

But in every triangle the sum of it angles = 180

x + y = 180 - z

s + q = 180 - r

Hence,

180 - z = 180 - r

z = r

What is value of z??

(1) xq + sy + sx + yq = zr

xq + yq + sy + sx = zr

q (x + y ) + s (x + y ) = zr

(x + y ) (q +s) = zr

From question stem: x +y = s + q & r = z

(x + y ) (x + y ) = zr

(x + y)^2 = z^2...Take square root for both sides

x + y = z

But 180 - z = x + y...then

180 - z = z

Z =90

Sufficient

(2) zq – ry = rx – zs

zq + zs = rx + ry

z (q + s) = r ( x + y).........but z = r, so cancel out

q + s = x + y...same info in question stem

Insuffeicnet

Answer: A
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Re: If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z? [#permalink]
MathRevolution wrote:
Forget conventional ways of solving math questions. In DS, Variable approach is the easiest and quickest way to find the answer without actually solving the problem. Remember equal number of variables and independent equations ensures a solution.


If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z?

(1) xq + sy + sx + yq = zr
(2) zq – ry = rx – zs

When you modify the original condition and the question, x-q=s-y becomes x+y=s+q, 180-z=180-r, z=r, and z=r=?. However, for 1), (q+s)+y(q+s)=zr=r^2, (x+y)(q+s)=r^2, (180-z)(180-r)=r^2, (180-r)^2=r^2 -> 180-r=r. 180-r=-r becomes 180=0, which is impossible. In 180-r=r, r=90, which is unique and sufficient.
For 2), it becomes z(q+s)=r(x+y), z=r. However, since this is only a restatement to the original condition, it is not sufficient. Therefore, the answer is A.


 Once we modify the original condition and the question according to the variable approach method 1, we can solve approximately 30% of DS questions.


In the second statement, Why can't we say that since
z/r = (x+y)/(s+q)
Then, z=(x+y)
???

Please help, I need to resolve this.
Thanks!

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Re: If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z? [#permalink]
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MrJglass wrote:
MathRevolution wrote:
Forget conventional ways of solving math questions. In DS, Variable approach is the easiest and quickest way to find the answer without actually solving the problem. Remember equal number of variables and independent equations ensures a solution.


If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z?

(1) xq + sy + sx + yq = zr
(2) zq – ry = rx – zs

When you modify the original condition and the question, x-q=s-y becomes x+y=s+q, 180-z=180-r, z=r, and z=r=?. However, for 1), (q+s)+y(q+s)=zr=r^2, (x+y)(q+s)=r^2, (180-z)(180-r)=r^2, (180-r)^2=r^2 -> 180-r=r. 180-r=-r becomes 180=0, which is impossible. In 180-r=r, r=90, which is unique and sufficient.
For 2), it becomes z(q+s)=r(x+y), z=r. However, since this is only a restatement to the original condition, it is not sufficient. Therefore, the answer is A.


 Once we modify the original condition and the question according to the variable approach method 1, we can solve approximately 30% of DS questions.


In the second statement, Why can't we say that since
z/r = (x+y)/(s+q)
Then, z=(x+y)
???

Please help, I need to resolve this.
Thanks!

Posted from my mobile device


Hello

If z/r = (x+y)/(s+q) then how did you arrive at z = (x+y)?
Basically you have cancelled 'r' from one side and 's+q' from the other side. So that means you have assumed r = s+q. But why? All we know is that s+q = 180-r, since sum of angles of a triangle is 180 degrees.
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Re: If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z? [#permalink]
amanvermagmat wrote:
MrJglass wrote:
MathRevolution wrote:
Forget conventional ways of solving math questions. In DS, Variable approach is the easiest and quickest way to find the answer without actually solving the problem. Remember equal number of variables and independent equations ensures a solution.


If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z?

(1) xq + sy + sx + yq = zr
(2) zq – ry = rx – zs

When you modify the original condition and the question, x-q=s-y becomes x+y=s+q, 180-z=180-r, z=r, and z=r=?. However, for 1), (q+s)+y(q+s)=zr=r^2, (x+y)(q+s)=r^2, (180-z)(180-r)=r^2, (180-r)^2=r^2 -> 180-r=r. 180-r=-r becomes 180=0, which is impossible. In 180-r=r, r=90, which is unique and sufficient.
For 2), it becomes z(q+s)=r(x+y), z=r. However, since this is only a restatement to the original condition, it is not sufficient. Therefore, the answer is A.


 Once we modify the original condition and the question according to the variable approach method 1, we can solve approximately 30% of DS questions.


In the second statement, Why can't we say that since
z/r = (x+y)/(s+q)
Then, z=(x+y)
???

Please help, I need to resolve this.
Thanks!

Posted from my mobile device


Hello

If z/r = (x+y)/(s+q) then how did you arrive at z = (x+y)?
Basically you have cancelled 'r' from one side and 's+q' from the other side. So that means you have assumed r = s+q. But why? All we know is that s+q = 180-r, since sum of angles of a triangle is 180 degrees.



Oooh yeeeeaa, now I understand.
The last time I solved this, I was so sure of why statement 1 was correct, but today I became confused. Thanks for the clarification.

My maths knowledge just increased by 0.00000000001%, I guess.

Thanks a lot!
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Re: If x – q = s – y, what is the value of z? [#permalink]
The key is at the beginning to figure out that it must be the case that Angle R = Angle Z


X - Q = S - Y


Using the property that the 3 Interior Angles of each triangle SUM to equal = 180 degrees

X = 180 - Y - Z

Q = 180 - S - R


Subtract the 2 Equations to get (X - Q)

X - Q = -Y - Z + S + R

X - Q = (S - Y) + R - Z

Since we are Given that: X - Q = S - Y

the only way this Given can be True is if the Expression at the End -----> R - Z = 0

If R - Z = 0

then: R = Z

What is the Value of Z (or R) = ?


S1: XQ + SY + SX + YQ = ZR

XQ + SX + SY + YQ = ZR

X(Q + S) + Y(S + Q) = ZR

(X + Y) (S + Q) = ZR --- eq1


X + Y + Z = 180
X + Y = 180 - Z ---- eq2

S + Q + R = 180
S + Q = 180 - R ---- eq3


Substituting eq2 and eq3 into eq1:

(180 - Z)(180 - R) = ZR


Since we found that Z = R above, we can substitute in Z for every instance of R:

(180 - Z)(180 - Z) = (Z)^2

(180)^2 - 360Z + (Z)^2 = (Z)^2

---subtract (Z)^2 from both sides----

(180)(180) = 360Z

180 = 2Z

Z = 90 degrees

S1 Sufficient


S2: After performing the Algebra, since we know that Z = R, S2 does not give us any new information to use

ZQ + ZS = RX + RY

Z(Q + S) = R(X + Y)


Q + S = 180 - R

X + Y = 180 - Z

so we have:

Z(180 - R) = R(180 - Z)

and again because Z = R

Z(180 - Z) = Z(180 - Z)


S2 is NOT sufficient to answer the Value of Z



(A) S1 Alone is sufficient
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Re: If x q = s y, what is the value of z? [#permalink]
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