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Re: According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
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Quote:
In the given question, how do we determine what does the pronoun it stands for?


the INTENDED antecedent of a pronoun (= what the pronoun "should" stand for) is just a function of CONTEXT + COMMON SENSE.

like other "shoulds" in sentence correction, this is not a grammar issue at all.
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Re: According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
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SupreetReddy wrote:
According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the first state in which more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than under it.

A.than

B.than born

C.than they were

D.than there had been

E.than had been born


Discussed here: https://gmatclub.com/forum/according-to ... fl=similar
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Re: According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
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GMATNinja wrote:
This is one of those classic comparison questions that can be really, really annoying if you’re not systematic and strict and literal with the meaning of the sentence. In my opinion, two of the WRONG answers sound better than the right answer. But my opinion doesn’t matter, and neither does “sound.” (Plus, who the heck starts having babies when they’re over the age of thirty? That’s really, really old. Oh, wait… crap. I’m over 30, huh?)

We also covered this one in a recent YouTube webinar on comparisons, so feel free to click here if you prefer your explanations in video form.

Before we look at the individual answer choices, hopefully the word “it” jumps out at you. It’s a singular pronoun, and… well, I guess it has to refer to “the age of thirty.” It’s really the only plausible singular referent, since “women” and “babies” are plural. And that’s one of the big keys to making sense of the question.

Quote:
A. than

So now we have: “…more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than under the age of thirty.”

I’ll be honest: I don’t love this answer choice. It sounds a little bit weird to me, but it’s also perfectly logical: the heart of the comparison revolves around the ages of the women. So I guess we have to keep (A), and see if there’s anything better down there somewhere.

Quote:
B. than born

(B) gives us: “…more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than born under the age of thirty.” Wait, that arguably sounds OK, but it’s nonsense: literally, (B) is telling us that the BABIES were born under the age of thirty. I mean, sure: babies are definitely under thirty, but that’s not the point that the sentence is trying to make.

So (B) is out.

Quote:
C. than they were

In (C), we have: “…more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than they were under the age of thirty.”

First of all, what does “they” refer to? You could argue for either “women” or “babies”, but neither makes much sense:

  • “…more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than babies were under the age of thirty.” → nope, that’s complete garbage
  • “…more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than women were under the age of thirty.” → also very confusing nonsense

So (C) is out, too.

Quote:
D. than there had been


(D) gives us: “…more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than there had been under the age of thirty.”

Why would we use the past perfect tense “had been” here? When you think about the timeline, that doesn’t make any sense: the action in past perfect tense has to occur before another action in simple past. So this is literally saying that “there had been” babies born to women under the age of thirty BEFORE “babies were born to women over the age of thirty.” That makes no sense at all.

(D) is gone.

Quote:
E. than had been born

I actually think that (E) sounds pretty good, but it’s wrong for exactly the same reason as (D): the past perfect tense is illogical in this situation.

Plus, we still have a pesky comparison issue, even if you ignore the verb tense problem: “…more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than had been born under the age of thirty.” This is similar to the logical problem in (B): it sounds like we’re saying that BABIES were born under the age of thirty, and that’s clearly not what we’re trying to say.

So (E) is gone, and we’re left with (A). Whether you like the way it sounds or not.


Hello GMATNinja,

Is "more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than TO under it" correct ?
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According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
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Fido10 wrote:
... don't you think that the comparison, rather, revolves around babies that were born to women with different ages ?


Hey Fido10

Happy to help you with this.


Here's how to find your way out of such a situation:

1. Start with meaning analysis, and understand what exactly are being compared and in what aspect.

    For instance, if X and Y are being compared, and the aspect of comparison is Z, then we say:
      a. X is more Z than Y.
      e.g. Tom is more reliable than Tina.

    Here, Tom and Tina are being compared. And "reliability" is the aspect of comparison.

    So, when we say, "more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than under it", what exactly are the things being compared and what exactly is the aspect of comparison?

    Note that the word "more" (or the comparative degree) is typically applied to the aspect of comparison and not to the things being compared.

    So, 'more babies' suggests that the aspect of comparison is "the number of babies born to women". This automatically means that the things (entities) being compared are "women over the age of thirty" and "women under the age of thirty".
      X = women over the age of thirty
      Y = women under it (the age of thirty)
      Z = number of babies born to women

    So, we have at least two ways to convey the above:

      a. Women over the age of thirty have more babies than those under it.
      b. More babies are born to women over the age of thirty than under it.

      Both of these sentences mean the exact same thing.

    Now that we have the meaning understood, let's focus on grammar.


2. Sentences with Comparisons in them will most likely contain some form of ellipsis or another.
    "Ellipsis", in simple words, is the omission of repetitive words in comparative clauses. So, if we insert the omitted words, we get:

      ...more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than babies were born to women under it.


    This is why choice A is the best of the given choices. It has zero repetition.

    Here's an article on Ellipsis from our blog, for further reading: https://e-gmat.com/blogs/ellipses-in-co ... ing-verbs/


I hope this helps improve your understanding. Please feel free to revert for further clarification.


Happy Learning!

Abhishek :)

Originally posted by egmat on 17 Nov 2022, 02:30.
Last edited by egmat on 17 Nov 2022, 04:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
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egmat wrote:
Fido10 wrote:
... don't you think that the comparison, rather, revolves around babies that were born to women with different ages ?


Hey Fido10

Happy to help you with this.


Here's how to find your way out of such a situation:

1. Start with meaning analysis, and understand what exactly are being compared and in what aspect.

    For instance, if X and Y are being compared, and the aspect of comparison is Z, then we say:
      a. X is more Z than Y.
      e.g. Tom is more reliable than Tina.

    Here, Tom and Tina are being compared. And "reliability" is the aspect of comparison.

    So, when we say, "more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than under it", what exactly are the things being compared and what exactly is the aspect of comparison?

    Note that the word "more" (or the comparative degree) is typically applied to the aspect of comparison and not to the things being compared.

    So, 'more babies' suggests that the aspect of comparison is "the number of babies born to women". This automatically means that the things (entities) being compared are "women over the agee of thirty" and "women under the age of thirty".
      X = women over the age of thirty
      Y = women under it (the age of thirty)
      Z = number of babies born to women

    So, we have at least two ways to convey the above:

      a. Women over the age of thirty have more babies than those under it.
      b. More babies are born to women over the age of thirty than under it.

      Both of these sentences mean the exact same thing.

    Now that we have the meaning understood, let's focus on grammar.


2. Sentences with Comparisons in them will most likely contain some form of ellipsis or another.
    "Ellipsis", in simple words, is the omission of repetitive words in comparative clauses. So, if we insert the omitted words, we get:

      ...more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than babies were born to women under it.


    This is why choice A is the best of the given choices. It has zero repetition.

    Here's an article on Ellipsis from our blog, for further reading: https://e-gmat.com/blogs/ellipses-in-co ... ing-verbs/


I hope this helps improve your understanding. Please feel free to revert for further clarification.


Happy Learning!

Abhishek :)


Dear Abhishek egmat Thank you so much
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Re: According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
HerrGrau wrote:
Hi,

This is a tricky one. I think what helps differentiate the answers is to think about what the comparison is: Women under the age of thirty VS. Women over the age of thirty

And the structure is: More X than Y

or with the story filled in: More Women over the age thirty than under the age of thirty


The other thing that helps is to fill in the noun/noun phrase that the pronoun "it" is replacing. Replacing pronouns is often helpful in SC. It's good to make this a habit.

Answer B is wrong because you have were born on one side of the comparison and only born on the other side. You need to have were born on both sides or nothing at all (in this case the were born is distributed to the second half of the comparison). It's a bit like a list in which you can have the bar, the plane, and the floor or the bar, plane, and floor but not the plane, bar, and the floor. Either you need to have every element or just let the first element distribute. In general, you cannot mix and match.

Another strategy here is to re-arrange the sentence: [/b[b]]More babies were born to woman over the age of thirty than (were born to) woman under the age of thirty in the state of Mass. in 1998.

Let me know if you need more advice on this one.

Happy Studies,

HG.

Hmmm how could you simply imply the 'were born to' in the second half of the sentence? Are you saying the first were born to is the first and only element to be distributed? But that phrase 'were born to' is after more (within the idiotmatic construction)
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Re: According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
Dhairya275 wrote:
According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the first state in which more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than under it.

1. than
2. than born
3. than they were
4. than they had been
5. than had been born

Explanation please !!


Yes, this is an apples vs oranges question.

"more babies were born to X than Y"

x = women over 30
y = women under 30

No need to mention the verb "born" in the answer choices - so the simplest one works.
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Re: According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
r019h wrote:
According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the first state in which more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than under it.

A. than
B. than born
C. that they were
D. than there had been
E. than had been born


Hello Experts,

I have one question, if I replace the option B. than born with B. than were born --> Does this change makes option B correct? Please comment.

As per my understanding, the above sentence becomes,

According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the first state in which more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than were born under it.

This sentence is making the comparison logical. So, it seems correct to me. Please review.

mikemcgarry

Thanks.
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Re: According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
souvik101990 wrote:
According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the first state in which more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than under it.

A. than
B. than born
C. than they were
D. than there had been
E. than had been born

mikemcgarry ,sayantanc2k , RonPurewal , daagh ,GMATNinja ,egmat ,AjiteshArun -- In the given question, how do we determine what does the pronoun it stands for?
Do we find the antecedent of it using parallelism? -- since in the part preceding than , preposition 'over' is followed by the phrase "the age of thirty" and thus preposition 'under' is followed by it , which stands for the noun phrase "the age of thirty".

According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the first state in which more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than under it.

In general, a pronoun can stand any of the following - noun , object of preposition or the entire noun phrase?
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Re: According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
r019h wrote:
According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the first state in which more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than under it.

A. than
B. than born
C. than they were
D. than there had been
E. than had been born


POE:

A) Correct
B) This makes it sound like the sentence is trying to say "more babies were born to women over age of thirty than babies born under age of thirty". Since all babies are born under 30, this doesn't make much sense.
C) Who is THEY referring to?
D) THERE needs to point to a location or place. There is no antecedent here. Also past perfect needs another marker of time to create some sort of sequence in the sentence. That does not happen here
E) Same as D
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According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
[quote="r019h"]According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the first state in which more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than under it.

A. than
B. than born
C. than they were
D. than there had been
E. than had been born

why choice B is wrong?

the full sentence is
more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than babies were born to women under age of thirty.

the rule of ellipsis is that ONE PHRASE IS CUT, not TWO PHRASES ARE CUT.
choice A mean

more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than//babies were born to women// under age of thirty.

choice A cut off one phrase. this is good

choice B means

more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than //babies were// born// to women// under age of thirty.

choice B cut off two phrases in the two places, making many illogical interpretations said above, such as, babies were born under thirty , or , woman born under thirty.

to illustrate this point. suppose, we cut off 3 phrases, which are "babies", "born", and "woman".


more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than//babies// were// born// to //women //under age of thirty.

and the sentence become

more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than....were...to...under age of thirty.

this sentence is of course nonsensical, which is like choice B.

the cutting off 2 phrases at two places makes unparallelism and many interpretations of ambiguity.

so, the rule is CUTTING 1 PHRASE, NOT 2.

Originally posted by thangvietnam on 15 Feb 2019, 04:03.
Last edited by thangvietnam on 12 Apr 2020, 04:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the first state in which more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than under it.

A.than

B.than born

C.than they were

D.than there had been

E.than had been born
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Re: According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
daagh why shouldn't we use Born after Than
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Re: According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
Expert Reply
SupreetReddy wrote:
According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the first state in which more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than under it.

A.than

B.than born

C.than they were

D.than there had been

E.than had been born

Merged duplicate posts. Please search the forum before posting a question! (see Rules to post on the Verbal Forum)
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Re: According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
egmat wrote:
Hi there,

According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the first state in which more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than under it.

It is important to understand the intended meaning of the sentence.
• This sentence presents comparison. We need to find out what are the entities that are compared here.
• In 1998, Massachusetts became the first state in which more babies were born to woman who were over the age of 30 than to those woman who were under the age of 30.
• The entities compared here the woman over 30 and woman under 30.

Now let’s see what the Errors are in this sentence:
Now there is just one word underlined in this sentence. The idiom used in this sentence is “…more babies are born to X than Y”. Here X and Y should be parallel.
X = woman over the age of thirty (noun phrase)
Y = (woman) under it (it = the age of thirty)
Since bot the entities are parallel here, there is no error in this sentence.

PoE:

A. than: Correct for the reason stated above.

B. than born: Incorrect. This choice leads to illogical comparison. Per this choice, entity Y = (babies) born under it (it = the age of thirty). This means the babies were under the age of 30. This is absolutely non-sensical.

C. than they were: Incorrect. Firstly, pronoun “they” is ambiguous here. If “they” refers to “babies”, then also it leads to illogical meaning and if “they” refers to “women”, then also lead to illogical meaning.

D. than there had been: Incorrect. This choice uses the incorrect verb tense as well as presents illogical comparison.

E. than had been born: Inocrrect. This choice repeats the verb tense error of choice D and illogical comparison error of choice B.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha


Hello egmat

Is "more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than TO under it" correct ?
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According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
Hi MartyTargetTestPrep - I thought option B was right if you ellipsis the following words in brackets. I have color coded to indicate that the words are present earlier in the sentence.

Quote:
option B

According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the first state in which more babies were born to women over the age of thirty

than (were) born

(to women) under the age of 30.



If you bring in both were and to women into the Right hand side of 'THAN' as i have done, i believe option B is legitimate

Was curious, are we not allowed to ellipse two seperate phrases onto the right hand side, perhaps ?
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According to public health officials, in 1998 Massachusetts became the [#permalink]
GMATNinja wrote:
This is one of those classic comparison questions that can be really, really annoying if you’re not systematic and strict and literal with the meaning of the sentence. In my opinion, two of the WRONG answers sound better than the right answer. But my opinion doesn’t matter, and neither does “sound.” (Plus, who the heck starts having babies when they’re over the age of thirty? That’s really, really old. Oh, wait… crap. I’m over 30, huh?)

We also covered this one in a recent YouTube webinar on comparisons, so feel free to click here if you prefer your explanations in video form.

Before we look at the individual answer choices, hopefully the word “it” jumps out at you. It’s a singular pronoun, and… well, I guess it has to refer to “the age of thirty.” It’s really the only plausible singular referent, since “women” and “babies” are plural. And that’s one of the big keys to making sense of the question.

Quote:
A. than

So now we have: “…more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than under the age of thirty.”

I’ll be honest: I don’t love this answer choice. It sounds a little bit weird to me, but it’s also perfectly logical: the heart of the comparison revolves around the ages of the women. So I guess we have to keep (A), and see if there’s anything better down there somewhere.

Quote:
B. than born

(B) gives us: “…more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than born under the age of thirty.” Wait, that arguably sounds OK, but it’s nonsense: literally, (B) is telling us that the BABIES were born under the age of thirty. I mean, sure: babies are definitely under thirty, but that’s not the point that the sentence is trying to make.

So (B) is out.

Quote:
C. than they were

In (C), we have: “…more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than they were under the age of thirty.”

First of all, what does “they” refer to? You could argue for either “women” or “babies”, but neither makes much sense:

  • “…more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than babies were under the age of thirty.” → nope, that’s complete garbage
  • “…more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than women were under the age of thirty.” → also very confusing nonsense

So (C) is out, too.

Quote:
D. than there had been


(D) gives us: “…more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than there had been under the age of thirty.”

Why would we use the past perfect tense “had been” here? When you think about the timeline, that doesn’t make any sense: the action in past perfect tense has to occur before another action in simple past. So this is literally saying that “there had been” babies born to women under the age of thirty BEFORE “babies were born to women over the age of thirty.” That makes no sense at all.

(D) is gone.

Quote:
E. than had been born

I actually think that (E) sounds pretty good, but it’s wrong for exactly the same reason as (D): the past perfect tense is illogical in this situation.

Plus, we still have a pesky comparison issue, even if you ignore the verb tense problem: “…more babies were born to women over the age of thirty than had been born under the age of thirty.” This is similar to the logical problem in (B): it sounds like we’re saying that BABIES were born under the age of thirty, and that’s clearly not what we’re trying to say.

So (E) is gone, and we’re left with (A). Whether you like the way it sounds or not.



Hi GMAT Ninja,

I am indebted to you for your superb videos on everything. I am getting frequently confused in questions like these. Kindly help me out here as well.

I feel Ellipsis is at play in every option:

Option A: than ( to women ) under it (age of thirty )
Option B: than born (to women) under it (age of thirty )
Option C: than they were (born to women) under it ( age of thirty ) - this option is obviously wrong because of the inappropriate "they"

Am I wrong here? If yes, then what mistake am I making here?
Additionally, how can I figure out what has been omitted/what should be omitted in the second part and whether or not that omission is correct?
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