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Re: Art restorers who have been studying the factors that cause Renaissanc [#permalink]
unraveled
Thanks. I agree.
Over-analysis make me suspicious to all the choices sometimes.
Nevertheless, I posted this query while reviewing my answers and noting down the takeaway from the problems.
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Art restorers who have been studying the factors that cause Renaissanc [#permalink]
jabhatta2 wrote:
AndrewN - On the other hand , I did not like option A because of the words "likely to show"

Quote:
(A) Renaissance oil paintings with a thin layer of gesso are less likely to show deterioration in response to climatic changes than those with a thicker layer.


Just because less gesso is "less likely to show" deterioration -- that could mean deterioration is taking place but we as viewers are just not able to see it.

I got the impression, its possible that
- Less gesso is CAUSING a lot of deterioration
BUT
- Its just not "likely" to be seen

Analogy - My jeans are less likely to show my weight gain == well, the weight gain happened. My jeans are the reason why my weight gain is not "showing" it to the world. But the weight gain did happen (behind the scenes)

Simirlarly, I thought option A was irrelevant whether gesso or oil "showed" deterioration ... I was looking for an answer choice that CONFIRMED that gesso CAUSED / INITIATED / Was the definitive cause for deterioration.

"less likely to show" / "more likely to show " were just wrong because thats just what is in front of the public.

Thought on where I am maybe going wrong


"less likely... than" a comparison idiom. Option A means that Thin layer is going to show less deterioration than a thick one. This means if there is more gesso, there is more deterioration. This shows correlation between gesso and deterioration.

"less likely to show" / "more likely to show " were just wrong because thats just what is in front of the public. - but if it is showing more in thick one means it has deformed more..
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Art restorers who have been studying the factors that cause Renaissanc [#permalink]
Hi GMATNinja MartyTargetTestPrep - while I did select option A, I do think option A suffers from some issues.

Would you agree that option A does not refer to the 'link/un-written assumption' specifically between the premise and the conclusion?

GMATninja did mention the importance on focussing on this 'link / un written assumption' when eliminating option D in another CR problem like This CR problem.

Simirlarly in this case, i was hoping the answer choice focussed on the 'link' between the premise and the conclusion

The 'un mentioned assumption' between the premise and the conclusion is perhaps -- Gesso does not respond well to climate change | Other 3rd factors (such as papyrus for example) , respond well to climate change...)
.
All option A does is frankly strengthen the conclusion (Blue box) BUT it does not strengthen the 'link' (as represented as in red arrow) in the diagram below.

Thoughts ?
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Art restorers who have been studying the factors that cause Renaissanc [#permalink]
MartyTargetTestPrep wrote:
jabhatta2 wrote:
Hi GMATNinja MartyTargetTestPrep - while I did select option A, I do think option A suffers from some issues.

Would you agree that option A does not refer to the 'link/un-written assumption' specifically between the premise and the conclusion?

GMATninja did mention the importance on focussing on this 'link / un written assumption' when eliminating option D in another CR problem like This CR problem.

Simirlarly in this case, i was hoping the answer choice focussed on the 'link' between the premise and the conclusion

The 'un mentioned assumption' between the premise and the conclusion is perhaps -- Gesso does not respond well to climate change | Other 3rd factors (such as papyrus for example) , respond well to climate change...)
.
All option A does is frankly strengthen the conclusion (Blue box) BUT it does not strengthen the 'link' (as represented as in red arrow) in the diagram below.

Thoughts ?

Notice that this question is not an Assumption question. So, the correct answer doesn't have to link the evidence to the conclusion.

When answering Critical Reasoning questions, we have to carefully note what the question stem asks and make sure we understand what the correct answer has to do.


Hi MartyTargetTestPrep - thanks for responding. I agree this is a strengthener type question.

But shouldnt the 'strengthener' focus on the strengthening the assumption ?

Per my understadning, strengtheners should NOT be focussing on strengthening the conclusion. Simirlarly, strengtheners should NOT be focussing on strengthening the premises.
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Art restorers who have been studying the factors that cause Renaissanc [#permalink]
MartyTargetTestPrep wrote:
jabhatta2 wrote:
MartyTargetTestPrep wrote:
Notice that this question is not an Assumption question. So, the correct answer doesn't have to link the evidence to the conclusion.

When answering Critical Reasoning questions, we have to carefully note what the question stem asks and make sure we understand what the correct answer has to do.


Hi MartyTargetTestPrep - thanks for responding. I agree this is a strengthener type question.

But shouldnt the 'strengthener' focus on the strengthening the assumption ?

Per my understadning, strengtheners should NOT be focussing on strengthening the conclusion. Simirlarly, strengtheners should NOT be focussing on strengthening the premises.

Nope, a strengthener doesn't have to focus on the strengthening the assumption. Strengtheners can strengthen arguments in various ways. In fact, often in Strengthen question passages, there isn't even any evidence to connect to the conclusion.


Hi MartyTargetTestPrep - could you perhaps give an example ?

I agree what you said in th yellow regarding cause and effect arguments. But other type of CR strengtheners --

.. i thought there was no point in 'strengthening' the premise or 'strengthening' the conclusion ever ... you need to look to strengthen the link between the premise and the conclusion specifically.

Example --

My patio is wet outside. It must have rained outside

There is no point in strengthening the premise (my patio is wet) for example.
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Re: Art restorers who have been studying the factors that cause Renaissanc [#permalink]
MartyTargetTestPrep that is because there is no premise whereas this question does have one


MartyTargetTestPrep wrote:
jabhatta2 wrote:
MartyTargetTestPrep wrote:
Nope, a strengthener doesn't have to focus on the strengthening the assumption. Strengtheners can strengthen arguments in various ways. In fact, often in Strengthen question passages, there isn't even any evidence to connect to the conclusion.


Hi MartyTargetTestPrep - could you perhaps give an example ?

I agree what you said in th yellow regarding cause and effect arguments. But other type of CR strengtheners --

.. i thought there was no point in 'strengthening' the premise or 'strengthening' the conclusion ever ... you need to look to strengthen the link between the premise and the conclusion specifically.

Example --

My patio is wet outside. It must have rained outside

There is no point in strengthening the premise (my patio is wet) for example.

Here's a Strengthen question in which there isn't in the passage any premise supporting the conclusion. So, there's no link between a premise and the conclusion to strengthen.

https://gmatclub.com/forum/a-major-netw ... 36966.html
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Art restorers who have been studying the factors that cause Renaissanc [#permalink]
AnishPassi wrote:
(D) An especially hard and nonabsorbent type of gesso was the raw material for moldings on the frames of Renaissance oil paintings.
Incorrect.
So the frames also have a form of gesso in them. And that type of gesso is hard and nonabsorbent. Even if we take ‘hard and nonabsorbent’ to be qualities that prevent deterioration from climatic changes, we have no information about the type of gesso used in the layer under the paint. Remember, the hypothesis is that the layer of gesso, which is under the paint, causes the deterioration.

No impact.


Hi AnishPassi -a slight disagreement on what you mention in (D)

Focussing on the yellow bit -

If 'hard and nonabsorbent' are qualities that prevent deterioration from climatic changes - then option (D) would strengthen the hypothesis.

If the hypothesis is (X) is causing (Y). Then one way to strengthen this hypothesis is to say (Z) is NOT the cause of (Y)

If the yellow were true, (Option D) would be eliminating ANOTHER POTENTIAL CAUSE for (Y)

Specifically - option D would be eliminating this cause : Gesso found under frames

Thereby, strengthening the hypothesis - Gesso under the painting could be the cause of deterioration.
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Re: Art restorers who have been studying the factors that cause Renaissanc [#permalink]
Expert Reply
Ankita1122


Yeah, I can't see why this would be tempting, except as a distraction. Maybe the exact thoughts you and I went through now ("Why on Earth would this matter?") can slow someone down enough to make this question harder overall. But not every answer choice is going to be tempting. Some of them are quite out there!
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Art restorers who have been studying the factors that cause Renaissanc [#permalink]
DmitryFarber wrote:
Ankita1122


Yeah, I can't see why this would be tempting, except as a distraction. Maybe the exact thoughts you and I went through now ("Why on Earth would this matter?") can slow someone down enough to make this question harder overall. But not every answer choice is going to be tempting. Some of them are quite out there!


Hi DmitryFarber -

Regarding (d) -- can we assume that 'hard and nonabsorbent' are qualities for "adjusting for climatic changes well" ? If we could, i think option (D) would strengthen the hypothesis and would be an answer, right ?

Reason -
If the hypothesis is (X) is causing (Y). Then one way to strengthen this hypothesis is to eliminate other potential causes for (Y).

If 'hard and nonabsorbent' are qualities for "adjusting for climatic changes well" - then (Option D) would be eliminating ANOTHER POTENTIAL CAUSE for deterioration.

Specifically - option D would be eliminating this cause : Gesso, found under frames, CANNOT BE held responsible for deterioration.

Thereby, strengthening the hypothesis - Gesso, under the painting specifically, MORE LIKELY is the cause of deterioration (given oil nor gesso under the frames are the cause behind deterioration)

Thoughts ?
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Re: Art restorers who have been studying the factors that cause Renaissanc [#permalink]
Expert Reply
jabhatta2

Generally, the answer to "Can we assume X?" is no. Unless something is a basic idea that everyone knows, then it can't be used as underlying knowledge. In this case, I have no idea if those qualities are helpful, and even if they were, knowing the specific properties of the gesso in the frame wouldn't tell us anything about the gesso in the paintings.
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Re: Art restorers who have been studying the factors that cause Renaissanc [#permalink]
WaterFlowsUp wrote:
Official Guide for GMAT Verbal Review, 2nd Edition

Practice Question
Question No.: 33
Page: 128

Art restorers who have been studying the factors that cause Renaissance oil paintings to deteriorate physically when subject to climatic changes have found that the oil paint used in these paintings actually adjusts to these changes well. The restorers therefore hypothesize that it is a layer of material called gesso, which is under the paint, that causes the deterioration.

Which of the following, if true, most strongly supports the restorers’ hypothesis?

(A) Renaissance oil paintings with a thin layer of gesso are less likely to show deterioration in response to climatic changes than those with a thicker layer.

(B) Renaissance oil paintings are often painted on wooden panels, which swell when humidity increases and contract when it declines.

(C) Oil paint expands and contracts readily in response to changes in temperature, but it absorbs little water and so is little affected by changes in humidity.

(D) An especially hard and nonabsorbent type of gesso was the raw material for moldings on the frames of Renaissance oil paintings.

(E) Gesso layers applied by Renaissance painters typically consisted of a coarse base layer onto which several increasingly fine-grained layers were applied.


Is answer E just simply irrelevant information? It does nothing to move the needle either way.
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Re: Art restorers who have been studying the factors that cause Renaissanc [#permalink]
Conc: The restorers therefore hypothesize that it is a layer of material called gesso, which is under the paint, that causes the deterioration.

(A) Renaissance oil paintings with a thin layer of gesso are less likely to show deterioration in response to climatic changes than those with a thicker layer. - This shows that changing the amount of gesso changes the liklihood of deterioration. Therefore, this supports the passage. Keep

(B) Renaissance oil paintings are often painted on wooden panels, which swell when humidity increases and contract when it declines. - Doesn't explain the connection of gesso with deterioration. Drop

(C) Oil paint expands and contracts readily in response to changes in temperature, but it absorbs little water and so is little affected by changes in humidity. - Again, the passage establishes that the oil pain adjusts to climate changes and gesso is hypothesized as the cause of deterioration. This option doesn't provide any support for the conclusion. Drop

(D) An especially hard and nonabsorbent type of gesso was the raw material for moldings on the frames of Renaissance oil paintings. - Explains what gesso can be used for, but not why it causes deterioration. Drop

(E) Gesso layers applied by Renaissance painters typically consisted of a coarse base layer onto which several increasingly fine-grained layers were applied. - Explains what gesso consists of. Drop
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Re: Art restorers who have been studying the factors that cause Renaissanc [#permalink]
We need to see option which talks about quality of Gesso is responsible for painting to deteriorate so option A is answer. 

While option D & E just said Gesso is used in renaissance painting but had no clue that it is reason for deterioration of paintings­
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Re: Art restorers who have been studying the factors that cause Renaissanc [#permalink]
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