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Last week local shrimpers held a news conference to take some credit 26 Jul 2017, 02:36
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brandon7
If in C, protect was plural (protects). Would it have been correct? The OG answer says that "that require" is wordy and unnecessary, but that part sounds better to me. Again, assuming it didn't have the protect issue.
Show more

namrata88
hi all,
i know this sub-verb agreement question.
But however i fail to understand the how the Subject is compliance here.
My question will sound silly,but please help me identify the main subject and main verb
Show more

Hi namrata88 / brandon7 ,

Welcome to GMATClub :)

Here I go:

1st Query:

Yes, in that case C would have been correct. But note that there is no reason to reject option B as well. So, a typical GMAT question will never have two such options at the same time. Hence, rest assured about that. :)

2nd Query:

Last week local shrimpers held a news conference to take some credit for the resurgence of the rare Kemp's ridley turtle, saying that their compliance with laws requiring turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets is protecting adult sea turtles.

The clause after 'saying that' is an independent clause.

their compliance with laws requiring turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets is protecting adult sea turtles.

Now, look at the above sentence, if you remove the fluff, you will find something as follows:

their compliance with laws requiring turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets is protecting adult sea turtles.

Can you see the subject now?

Compliance is the subject and is protecting is the verb.

Let me know in case of any concern. :)
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brandon7
If in C, protect was plural (protects). Would it have been correct? The OG answer says that "that require" is wordy and unnecessary, but that part sounds better to me. Again, assuming it didn't have the protect issue.
Show more


Hello brandon7,

I will be glad to resolve your doubt. :-)

Choice C of this official sentence has only the subject verb number agreement error. While their compliance is a singular subject, protect is a plural verb.

Please note that protects is a singular verb that will agree in number with the singular subject their compliance.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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abhimahna

Hi namrata88 / brandon7 ,

Welcome to GMATClub :)

Here I go:

1st Query:

Yes, in that case C would have been correct. But note that there is no reason to reject option B as well. So, a typical GMAT question will never have two such options at the same time. Hence, rest assured about that. :)

2nd Query:

Last week local shrimpers held a news conference to take some credit for the resurgence of the rare Kemp's ridley turtle, saying that their compliance with laws requiring turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets is protecting adult sea turtles.

The clause after 'saying that' is an independent clause.

their compliance with laws requiring turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets is protecting adult sea turtles.

Now, look at the above sentence, if you remove the fluff, you will find something as follows:

their compliance with laws requiring turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets is protecting adult sea turtles.

Can you see the subject now?

Compliance is the subject and is protecting is the verb.

Let me know in case of any concern. :)
Show more

Hello abhimahna,


You have presented very crisp analyses here. Great job there.

However, I would just like to let you know that what follows saying that is not an independent clause. It is a dependent clause because the connector that always starts a dependent clause.

The connector that always associates with the clause that it starts. So essentially, after saying, we have a dependent clause that reads: that their compliance with laws... is protecting adult sea turtles.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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In this question I made an error of identifying the wrong Subject and said that the devices are the subject. But later realized that devices cannot be the subject because follows the prepositional phrase with and hence cannot be the subject. Is my reasoning correct?
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nevergiveup
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Last week local shrimpers held a news conference to take some credit for the resurgence of the rare Kemp's ridley turtle, saying that their compliance with laws requiring that turtle-excluder devices be on shrimp nets protect adult sea turtles.

A. requiring that turtle-excluder devices be on shrimp nets protect
B. requiring turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets is protecting
C. that require turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets protect
D. to require turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets are protecting
E. to require turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets is protecting

Please explain your answers. Thanks.
Show more

Hi egmat

What is the difference between laws requiring and laws that require ?
Also i have seen question with such structure .
How can one identify the where to use them properly.

Regards,
Arvind
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I chose B because it seemed the closest answer to me, but I don't understand why the correct answer should not "requiring turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets was protecting" instead of "on shrimp nets is protecting"?
Can anyone explain it to me please?

Thank You!
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longhaul123
In this question I made an error of identifying the wrong Subject and said that the devices are the subject. But later realized that devices cannot be the subject because follows the prepositional phrase with and hence cannot be the subject. Is my reasoning correct?
Show more



Hello longhaul123,

I am not sure if you still have this doubt. Here is the explanation nonetheless. :-)


In Choice A, devices surely is the subject but not in any other choice.



Please note that those nouns cannot act as the subject that are immediately preceded by a preposition. But that is not the case with devices in any of the answer choices.

In all the other four answer choices, devices actually acts as the object of the action require.



Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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arvind910619

Hi egmat

What is the difference between laws requiring and laws that require ?
Also i have seen question with such structure .
How can one identify the where to use them properly.

Regards,
Arvind
Show more



Hello Arvind / arvind910619,

I am not sure if you still have this doubt. But there is the explanation. :-)


There is no difference between the expressions laws requiring and laws that require. They both mean the same, and hence, we cannot choose one over the other.

Choice C is incorrect for the incorrect verb protect and not because of laws that require.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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kimhoon27
I chose B because it seemed the closest answer to me, but I don't understand why the correct answer should not "requiring turtle-excluder devices on shrimp nets was protecting" instead of "on shrimp nets is protecting"?
Can anyone explain it to me please?

Thank You!
Show more


I will be glad to help you out with this one. :-)


Firstly, there is no answer choice that gives the option to choose was protecting. All the answer choices uses the present tense verbs.


Secondly, use of present tense verb in the original sentence that this action of protecting the turtles is prevalent in the present. It is not that the turtles were being protected in the past. They still are being protected by the local shrimpers.



Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Dear Team,
I am not convinced why option E is wrong?

I request for detailed explanation
bb generis GMATNinja egmat EMPOWERgmatVerbal
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priyanshu14
Dear Team,
I am not convinced why option E is wrong?

I request for detailed explanation
bb generis GMATNinja egmat EMPOWERgmatVerbal
Show more

Several deatiled expanations are given on previous THREE pages of discussion.

Hope it helps.
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I’m convinced Bunuel is a group of people, judging by the number of posts and around-the-clock posting ?

Posted from my mobile device
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Bunuel
priyanshu14
Dear Team,
I am not convinced why option E is wrong?

I request for detailed explanation
bb generis GMATNinja egmat EMPOWERgmatVerbal

Several deatiled expanations are given on previous THREE pages of discussion.

Hope it helps.
Show more
Dear Bunuel

Thanks for revert. I have gone through all previous explanation. It is mentioned that "laws to require" is unidiomatic. This doesn't convince me. I request if you can share detailed explanation on the same.

Thanks in advance.
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priyanshu14
Bunuel
priyanshu14
Dear Team,
I am not convinced why option E is wrong?

I request for detailed explanation
bb generis GMATNinja egmat EMPOWERgmatVerbal

Several deatiled expanations are given on previous THREE pages of discussion.

Hope it helps.
Dear Bunuel

Thanks for revert. I have gone through all previous explanation. It is mentioned that "laws to require" is unidiomatic. This doesn't convince me. I request if you can share detailed explanation on the same.

Thanks in advance.
Show more
priyanshu14 , a number of other decision points exist.

You are focused on "laws to require," though.
Why are you not convinced?
Explain your reasoning, please?
Sources?
Argue your case. :) HERE.

"Laws to require" cannot be used in this context.
We cannot talk about the content of the already-passed law with the words "to require."
We can talk about
-- a law that requires
-- a law requiring

We can say that the purpose of a law is to require something.
But the content of an extant law cannot be described with "to require."
-- Doing so makes it sound as though the content is not yet in force.

Last week shrimpers were talking about laws with which they complied.
Those laws are laws THAT require X, Y, and Z.
They are laws requiring X, Y, and Z.

The content of the law requires something right now.
The content of the law does not "to require" something.
The law's content THAT requires something...
Reduce the relative clause: The law's content requiring something...

A law TO require something has not yet been passed.

If we want laws TO require A, B, and C, then we must write them.
• We should pass a law to require people who have their finger on a nuclear trigger to undergo routine psychiatric checkups.
• I hope that the legislature enacts a law to require skiers to wear avalanche signals.
• The wingnuts wanted to pass a law to require that schoolchildren be prevented from reading The Scarlet Letter.

The shrimpers did not comply a week ago with laws TO require XYZ. :)
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souvik101990
[color=#00a651]
(Note that protect is not being used as a command
subjunctive in A. “be” is used as the command subjunctive).
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Hi Souvik,

Can you please help me as to why the option A is not referring to as the subjunctive mood?
The words "require + that" are valid acceptances for the subjunctive, isnt it?

souvik101990
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shahjenil93 Souvik didn't say that command subjunctive wasn't being used, but rather that "be" was the verb used to form the command subjunctive. Answer choice A says "REQUIRE THAT devices BE on nets."

In any case, we need PROTECT as the verb for COMPLIANCE, so anything else we do with PROTECT will render the whole thing a non-sentence.

Also, it's worth noting that if we do use the command subjunctive, we can't demand anything of the nets or the devices themselves. We can demand that devices be included, or that some kind of net be used, but we can't require the devices to be on the nets or require the nets to protect turtles, since the devices and nets aren't people that can follow our commands.
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Why "compliance" is being the subject in this rather "turtle-excluder"?
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lakshya14
Why "compliance" is being the subject in this rather "turtle-excluder"?
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Hi lakshya14,

Let's take a look at that phrase:
1. their compliance with laws requiring turtle-excluder devices

Turtle-excluder just defines devices. That is, it tells us what kind of devices we're talking about.

2. their compliance with laws requiring some devices
is like
3. their compliance with laws requiring something

Requiring turtle-excluder devices just defines laws.

3. their compliance with laws requiring something
is like
4. their compliance with some laws

The shrimpers are not saying that some laws protect sea turtles. They're saying their adherence to those laws is what is protecting sea turtles.
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SUBJECT AND VERB AGREEMENT , MODIFIERS


Here's my take on this classic question.




Best,


Rod
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Quote:


Tip: “Laws to require” indicates purpose of the law, but “laws requiring indicates
contents of the law. While this might sound very obvious to natives, but non natives
might have to struggle to get this clearly. Consider the following examples.
1.Arms act is passed to discourage random public shootings. Correct
2.Arms act is passed to levy heavy fines on people who carry unlicensed
firearm. Wrong.

2 is wrong because the arms act is not issued to levy fines. It is issued to prevent
something by levying fines. So the correct option is B.
Show more



I'm not sure this logic is perfect

to verbals describe the intention of a verb not a noun (law)
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