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Would love to get your perspective
[#permalink]
08 Feb 2011, 13:38
08 Feb 2011, 13:38
I recently came across this forum while considering future options and wanted to write to get your perspective if possible.
Out of undergrad, I had 2 years doing strategy consulting for a top tier consulting firm in Boston (Bain/BCG/McKinsey) and then transitioned into an analyst role at a growing hedge fund which I've been at for the past five years. I was the third member of the investment team hired (which is now four people). Our returns have been excellent through the financial crisis and since I've been here, we've gone from just under $250M in AUM to over $700M from a combination of returns and new investors.
Other info:
I graduated from a top three liberal arts college with a 3.7 overall GPA and a 3.9 GPA in the Economics major with Latin and Departmental honors. My extracurriculars in college were very strong. I founded various student organizations, sat in College government and various committees, helped score a big donation from a wealthy alum to my alma mater, and managed a $10K budget for a student organization. My post college extracurricular activities have involved some informal alumni duties like managing the worldwide linkedin group and mentoring some seniors seeking positions in finance and consulting, but are relatively limited in scope. I am pursuing a CFA currently which has been a tremendous time sink.
I scored decently on a recent GMAT sitting (720, 86% in Q and 87% in V)..
A couple things have concerned me recently.
1) Management opportunities here have been relatively limited. I have a clear role in firm recruiting from undergrad institutions as well as a strong role in training and mentoring a junior analyst but I'm pretty certain that that doesn't really hold a candle to the management experience that some of my peers have had. Asset management doesn't have the same type of title progression that most industries have so there's nothing that jumps out on the resume. I have, however, progressed very steadily in terms of skills and responsibilities. Is this a serious disadvantage to others who have more "demonstrable" skill sets?
2) Age concerns me as well. I'll be 28 this year which I suspect is on the older side for b-schools. Do schools consider you past your prime at some point?
3) Extracurriculars post college. What are b-schools looking for? Studying for the CFA has been a time drain so it's been tough to become super involved in anything else.
4) GMAT score. I'm pretty certain I can score better than my 720 but I'm concerned about a)diminishing marginal returns with taking it, b) actual negative perception effects from admissions committees deciding its stupid to invest time in.
5) What schools am I truly competitive for? I'd love Harvard/Stanford/Wharton/Sloan/Columbia, but I'm uncertain where I stack up in terms of experience/demonstrated management skill/scores/etc.
My long term career goal is to become a portfolio manager, specifically one with his own firm. For years I've put off the MBA decision because I thought it just wasn't necessary to getting to where I wanted to go, but recently I've noticed that a big blindspot with most PMs who try and start their own firms is the inability to communicate and market their story to prospective investors. I figure an MBA will be extremely useful in building a base of skills to achieve that outside of simply analyzing an investment.
I only just have begun to consider the MBA route and was hoping you could give me some guidance. Thanks in advance!
Out of undergrad, I had 2 years doing strategy consulting for a top tier consulting firm in Boston (Bain/BCG/McKinsey) and then transitioned into an analyst role at a growing hedge fund which I've been at for the past five years. I was the third member of the investment team hired (which is now four people). Our returns have been excellent through the financial crisis and since I've been here, we've gone from just under $250M in AUM to over $700M from a combination of returns and new investors.
Other info:
I graduated from a top three liberal arts college with a 3.7 overall GPA and a 3.9 GPA in the Economics major with Latin and Departmental honors. My extracurriculars in college were very strong. I founded various student organizations, sat in College government and various committees, helped score a big donation from a wealthy alum to my alma mater, and managed a $10K budget for a student organization. My post college extracurricular activities have involved some informal alumni duties like managing the worldwide linkedin group and mentoring some seniors seeking positions in finance and consulting, but are relatively limited in scope. I am pursuing a CFA currently which has been a tremendous time sink.
I scored decently on a recent GMAT sitting (720, 86% in Q and 87% in V)..
A couple things have concerned me recently.
1) Management opportunities here have been relatively limited. I have a clear role in firm recruiting from undergrad institutions as well as a strong role in training and mentoring a junior analyst but I'm pretty certain that that doesn't really hold a candle to the management experience that some of my peers have had. Asset management doesn't have the same type of title progression that most industries have so there's nothing that jumps out on the resume. I have, however, progressed very steadily in terms of skills and responsibilities. Is this a serious disadvantage to others who have more "demonstrable" skill sets?
2) Age concerns me as well. I'll be 28 this year which I suspect is on the older side for b-schools. Do schools consider you past your prime at some point?
3) Extracurriculars post college. What are b-schools looking for? Studying for the CFA has been a time drain so it's been tough to become super involved in anything else.
4) GMAT score. I'm pretty certain I can score better than my 720 but I'm concerned about a)diminishing marginal returns with taking it, b) actual negative perception effects from admissions committees deciding its stupid to invest time in.
5) What schools am I truly competitive for? I'd love Harvard/Stanford/Wharton/Sloan/Columbia, but I'm uncertain where I stack up in terms of experience/demonstrated management skill/scores/etc.
My long term career goal is to become a portfolio manager, specifically one with his own firm. For years I've put off the MBA decision because I thought it just wasn't necessary to getting to where I wanted to go, but recently I've noticed that a big blindspot with most PMs who try and start their own firms is the inability to communicate and market their story to prospective investors. I figure an MBA will be extremely useful in building a base of skills to achieve that outside of simply analyzing an investment.
I only just have begun to consider the MBA route and was hoping you could give me some guidance. Thanks in advance!
MBA Admissions Consultant
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 2457
Given Kudos: 2
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Would love to get your perspective
[#permalink]
09 Feb 2011, 11:25
09 Feb 2011, 11:25
Here's the thing.
If your current job is one that is way beyond the post-MBA level (i.e. if you were to leave, your replacement wouldn't be some fresh faced MBA, but maybe an MBA grad with a few years post-MBA experience), then to be honest it may not be worth to go back to a FULL-TIME program, especially if you're looking to stay within more or less the same industry (asset mgmt/finance).
With your background, you actually would've been competitive had you applied years ago - i.e. in your first 1-2 years at the fund. But now, adcoms especially at H/S/W will question why someone like you would need to go back full-time now. And if you go beyond those schools like at Sloan, Columbia, Booth, etc. they may overlook your age, but even then, I'm not sure if it's really worth it.
If I were you, I would seriously look at some executive programs, or even a part-time program. Again, this has less to do with "28 being old" and more with where you're at in your finance career. Its not really about your GMAT, extracurriculars, leadership, etc but more about where you're at right now in your career.
I encounter enough folks like yourself each year, so I understand the emotional investment one may have in the idea of going back full-time. But in my view you'd be putting too much stock in it, more than it's worth. Mind you, if you've already emotionally invested so much in the idea of going back, then you're probably going to apply anyways. Just know that you're likely going to be a stretch not because you're not good enough, but because adcoms are going to be skeptical about why you want to go back, and it may be very difficult to convince them otherwise no matter what you say (without coming across as way too defensive).
If your current job is one that is way beyond the post-MBA level (i.e. if you were to leave, your replacement wouldn't be some fresh faced MBA, but maybe an MBA grad with a few years post-MBA experience), then to be honest it may not be worth to go back to a FULL-TIME program, especially if you're looking to stay within more or less the same industry (asset mgmt/finance).
With your background, you actually would've been competitive had you applied years ago - i.e. in your first 1-2 years at the fund. But now, adcoms especially at H/S/W will question why someone like you would need to go back full-time now. And if you go beyond those schools like at Sloan, Columbia, Booth, etc. they may overlook your age, but even then, I'm not sure if it's really worth it.
If I were you, I would seriously look at some executive programs, or even a part-time program. Again, this has less to do with "28 being old" and more with where you're at in your finance career. Its not really about your GMAT, extracurriculars, leadership, etc but more about where you're at right now in your career.
I encounter enough folks like yourself each year, so I understand the emotional investment one may have in the idea of going back full-time. But in my view you'd be putting too much stock in it, more than it's worth. Mind you, if you've already emotionally invested so much in the idea of going back, then you're probably going to apply anyways. Just know that you're likely going to be a stretch not because you're not good enough, but because adcoms are going to be skeptical about why you want to go back, and it may be very difficult to convince them otherwise no matter what you say (without coming across as way too defensive).
Re: Would love to get your perspective
[#permalink]
09 Feb 2011, 11:58
09 Feb 2011, 11:58
It's a fair point and one I hadn't considered.
I was locked into a somewhat long term contract and it was only recently that I became a free agent. That's not much of an excuse and probably not a convincing one to admissions at any rate. I'm far from tied to the idea of going to business school but I feel as though there's a skill set and network I'm missing out on that I might need. Perhaps that's the emotional investment you're referring to.
Would my position be one which could be filled by a MBA graduate with no experience? Probably not but I can't decide whether or not that's the idiosyncrasy of my firm or the actual work. I would liken my job to that of second/third year associate at an i-bank. Yeah, a new grad could perform my job competently but there would be a year long ramp up period to being good at it.
Do I need business school to achieve my goals? Emotional investment aside, probably not.
Could it have helped me? Well that's the tough question isn't it! I have this long term goal of not just being a hedge fund manager, but also creating a different sort of investment company which will require many of the skills and the connections I know I'm just not getting right now. It's not a career change per se, but certainly a different and new direction which hasn't been explored by the industry yet. (In full disclosure, I have some noncompetes which prevent me from pursuing it right away which are not an insignificant motivator for taking some time off).
I guess my follow up question would be whether or not an EMBA experience can replicate the breadth and reputability of the Full time program particularly with regards to the closeness of the network?
But thanks again for the frank words, very much so appreciated.
I was locked into a somewhat long term contract and it was only recently that I became a free agent. That's not much of an excuse and probably not a convincing one to admissions at any rate. I'm far from tied to the idea of going to business school but I feel as though there's a skill set and network I'm missing out on that I might need. Perhaps that's the emotional investment you're referring to.
Would my position be one which could be filled by a MBA graduate with no experience? Probably not but I can't decide whether or not that's the idiosyncrasy of my firm or the actual work. I would liken my job to that of second/third year associate at an i-bank. Yeah, a new grad could perform my job competently but there would be a year long ramp up period to being good at it.
Do I need business school to achieve my goals? Emotional investment aside, probably not.
Could it have helped me? Well that's the tough question isn't it! I have this long term goal of not just being a hedge fund manager, but also creating a different sort of investment company which will require many of the skills and the connections I know I'm just not getting right now. It's not a career change per se, but certainly a different and new direction which hasn't been explored by the industry yet. (In full disclosure, I have some noncompetes which prevent me from pursuing it right away which are not an insignificant motivator for taking some time off).
I guess my follow up question would be whether or not an EMBA experience can replicate the breadth and reputability of the Full time program particularly with regards to the closeness of the network?
But thanks again for the frank words, very much so appreciated.
