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Re: Professor: A marine biologist argues that transmission of sea lice fro [#permalink]
GMATNinja what is the role of "in combination with British Columbia's cool spring temperature" here? It looks like an additional premise to me? It reads like "well, the professor didn't read this one paper that found 30 part and less salines in combination with cool temperature flourishes the lice". If my argument has an added premise (x+y) with x being the common overlap how would this structure be considered as attacking x? To me it sounded the biologist wasn't aware of this one edge case (i.e., cool weather). Could you please help understand what I'm missing here?
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Professor: A marine biologist argues that transmission of sea lice fro [#permalink]
GMATNinja AndrewN AjiteshArun

Hi,

whereas I understand why all other answer choices are not suitable, I struggle to understand why (C) is correct:

(C) says that there is evidence for one of the premises of the biologists are false. The biologists premise is:

A salinity level of 25-30 tends to surpress sea-lice proliferation.

But nowhere I find evidence that this is not true. All I get to know is that:

If I have a salinity level of 25-30 and this specific temperature of water -> favorable for sea lice proliferation

To say that the premise is false, I would need evidence for:

Salanity levels of 25-30 DON'T tend to surpress sea lice proliferation. And just because it is true that salanity levels of 25-30 AND specific cold water temperatures are favorable for sea lice proliferation, it doesn't follow logically that salanity levels of 25-30 don't tend to surpress sea lice proliferation.

So it could be that still, 25-30 salinity tends to surpress the proliferation, but the temperature of the water outweighs that surpression, and ends up being favorable for the proliferation.


Please let me know where I went wrong

Thanks
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Professor: A marine biologist argues that transmission of sea lice fro [#permalink]
GMATNinja wrote:
Vordhosbn wrote:
GMATNinja what is the role of "in combination with British Columbia's cool spring temperature" here? It looks like an additional premise to me? It reads like "well, the professor didn't read this one paper that found 30 part and less salines in combination with cool temperature flourishes the lice". If my argument has an added premise (x+y) with x being the common overlap how would this structure be considered as attacking x? To me it sounded the biologist wasn't aware of this one edge case (i.e., cool weather). Could you please help understand what I'm missing here?


Let's start by considering the structure of the marine biologist's argument.

The marine biologist concludes that "the archipelago's 25–30 parts per thousand salinity range between March and June...tends to suppress sea-lice proliferation." This conclusion is based on the premise that the salinity in this area is 25-30 parts per thousand in the spring, and that "salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival."

So the marine biologist's conclusion relies on the premise that "salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival." The professor then undermines the argument by attacking this premise. More specifically, the professor claims that "salinities of 25–30 parts per thousand in combination with British Columbia's cool spring temperatures favor the flourishing of sea lice."

As a result, the premise that "salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival" is false, which makes (C) correct.

You raise an interesting question about cool spring temperatures being an "edge case" of an otherwise reliable premise. Should we assume the premise that "salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival" is generally sound? If so, would that make it true?

Unfortunately, the passage doesn't give us any evidence to help resolve this question. We know that the marine biologist has cited numerous studies, but we have no idea how complete or representative those studies are. All we know is that the professor claims the premise is not ALWAYS true. In other words, the professor claims the premise is false.

Yet even if we could somehow prove that the professor's point about cool spring temperatures was just an "edge case," how would that affect the premise?

Notice the premise doesn't say that salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are GENERALLY unfavorable to sea-lice survival, but simply that they ARE unfavorable to sea-lice survival. So if any situations arise where salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are favorable to sea lice, that would show the premise as written is false. So either way, (C) is the best answer.

I hope that helps!


Hi,

I highlighted it in green. Knowing that the premise is not always true, and the premise being 'Salanity levels from 25-30 tend to surpress sea lice proliferation', I get:

There exist cases where salinity levels at 25-30 don't tend to surpress proliferation. Let's call this whole statement B.

Would you agree to everything up until this point? If yes, then my concern comes now. In order to prove the above, the professor says that there exists a case in which:

Salinity is at 25-30 and specific cool temperatur of water -> Sea Lice Proliferation takes place. Let's call this whole statement A.

The overall point the professor tries to make:

A->B

But this conclusion is not necessarily correct, because it could be that in his example, it is true that:

Salinity levels at 25-30 tend to surpress proliferation of sea lice and the cool water temperature heavily supports that proliferation, so that I have a net surplus of sea lice. Thats why A->B is not true.

I hope this makes my point clearer, thanks again for your time, I appreciate it

Edit: Could it be that this doesn't have to be a logically sound attempt to attack the biologist, but rather, that the task is to show how the professor tried to attack that argument, regardless if what he did makes sense?
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Professor: A marine biologist argues that transmission of sea lice fro [#permalink]
AjiteshArun wrote:
hadimadi wrote:
whereas I understand why all other answer choices are not suitable, I struggle to understand why (C) is correct:

Hi hadimadi,

Let's use X ~salinities less than 30 parts per thousand, Y ~cool spring temperatures, and Z ~transmission of sea lice from farm salmon to wild salmon (BA ~Broughton Archipelago). Here's the biologist's argument:

B1. X is unfavorable to Z
B2. Between March and June is the critical period for Z
B3. BA has X between March and June
therefore
B4. Z will not happen in BA

The professor's argument is:
P1: X in combination with Y favors Z
therefore (not explicitly mentioned):
P2: {The biologist is wrong}

If we think about B1, we'll see that it's an absolute. X is unfavorable to Z. If that statement is true, we won't expect anything to be able to change the fact that X should always be unfavorable to Z. However, as soon as the professor says that X is actually good for Z when combined with Y, we can say that the absolute statement (without any conditions) that X is unfavorable to Z is false.


Hi AjiteshArun

the red part of yours of equivalent to:

If X and Y -> X is good for Z

Can you please show where the professor says that? I can't find that statement in the passage. All I can find is the professor saying:

If X and Y -> Z

But:

(X and Y -> Z) != (X and Y -> X is good for Z)

Why?

Because it could be that X is still counterproductive for Z, and Y is super productive for Z, producing a net positive effect for Z.

Thanks a load and sorry for being so annoying, but I can't just leave it at that if I have doubts :D
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Re: Professor: A marine biologist argues that transmission of sea lice fro [#permalink]
in the question stem: '' salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival''

is this a necessary condition or sufficient condition against the survival of sea lice ?
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Re: Professor: A marine biologist argues that transmission of sea lice fro [#permalink]
KarishmaB

Could you please elaborate more on below:

''A is necessary for B' is the same as 'B is sufficient for A''

Lets say, 'more than 30 ppt salt is necessary for the survival of sea lice''. What are A and B in the given context?

KarishmaB wrote:
himanshu0123 wrote:
in the question stem: '' salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival''

is this a necessary condition or sufficient condition against the survival of sea lice ?


This is not a black/white situation.

'unfavourable' implies 'unlikely to survive' but we cannot say 'they will not survive.'

Hence, we are not looking for necessary or sufficient conditions.
If we had been given: "Sea lice cannot survive in salinities less than 30 ppt" then we would have said "salinities less than 30 ppt" are sufficient to kill sea lice.

If we had been given: "To survive, sea lice need salinities more than 30 ppt" then we would have said that "salinities more than 30 ppt" are necessary for sea lice survival.

Notice another thing: 'A is necessary for B' is the same as 'B is sufficient for A.' Think how.
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Re: Professor: A marine biologist argues that transmission of sea lice fro [#permalink]
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himanshu0123 wrote:
KarishmaB

Could you please elaborate more on below:

''A is necessary for B' is the same as 'B is sufficient for A''

Lets say, 'more than 30 ppt salt is necessary for the survival of sea lice''. What are A and B in the given context?

KarishmaB wrote:
himanshu0123 wrote:
in the question stem: '' salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival''

is this a necessary condition or sufficient condition against the survival of sea lice ?


This is not a black/white situation.

'unfavourable' implies 'unlikely to survive' but we cannot say 'they will not survive.'

Hence, we are not looking for necessary or sufficient conditions.
If we had been given: "Sea lice cannot survive in salinities less than 30 ppt" then we would have said "salinities less than 30 ppt" are sufficient to kill sea lice.

If we had been given: "To survive, sea lice need salinities more than 30 ppt" then we would have said that "salinities more than 30 ppt" are necessary for sea lice survival.

Notice another thing: 'A is necessary for B' is the same as 'B is sufficient for A.' Think how.


Say, 30% salinity (A) is necessary for sea lice survival (B).

Can we say that if we know that sea lice survived (B), it is sufficient to say that there was 30% salinity (A)? Sure.

Since A is necessary for B, knowing that B happened is sufficient to say that A happened.

Now flip the case: A is sufficient for B.

Consistent effort is sufficient for good grades. So if you put consistent effort, you will get good grades.
Then we can say that good grades are necessary (have to happen) in case of consistent effort.

We write sufficient condition as "If A then B" and necessary condition as "Only if A, then B"

Given 'if A then B,' it is the same as 'only if B, then A'
Given 'only if A then B,' it is the same as 'if B, then A'
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Re: Professor: A marine biologist argues that transmission of sea lice fro [#permalink]
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himanshu0123 wrote:
in the question stem: '' salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival''

is this a necessary condition or sufficient condition against the survival of sea lice ?


It's neither.

Definitely not necessary, since the sea lice (like all other living organisms) can be killed in plenty of other ways too.

Not sufficient, since the person presenting this idea says only that these salinities are "unfavorable" to the sea lice.
"Sufficient against their survival" would mean LETHAL / DEADLY to them!
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Re: Professor: A marine biologist argues that transmission of sea lice fro [#permalink]
avigutman GMATNinja
I am not really sure about the justification given for both the cases presented to justify against the conclusion that the premise is false. I do think that the premise can easily be true if cool temp is an additional evidence, considering which professor is make his argument but this surely does not convey that the premise as false because cool temp is basically giving an additional reason for professor's conclusion. We cannot say the biologist is wrong because we do not have an evidence to show his premise is false. If his premise is true, then also professor can make use of his premise + cool temp to argue that this would be favourable to transmission of sea lice.


GMATNinja wrote:
Vordhosbn wrote:
GMATNinja what is the role of "in combination with British Columbia's cool spring temperature" here? It looks like an additional premise to me? It reads like "well, the professor didn't read this one paper that found 30 part and less salines in combination with cool temperature flourishes the lice". If my argument has an added premise (x+y) with x being the common overlap how would this structure be considered as attacking x? To me it sounded the biologist wasn't aware of this one edge case (i.e., cool weather). Could you please help understand what I'm missing here?


Let's start by considering the structure of the marine biologist's argument.

The marine biologist concludes that "the archipelago's 25–30 parts per thousand salinity range between March and June...tends to suppress sea-lice proliferation." This conclusion is based on the premise that the salinity in this area is 25-30 parts per thousand in the spring, and that "salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival."

So the marine biologist's conclusion relies on the premise that "salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival." The professor then undermines the argument by attacking this premise. More specifically, the professor claims that "salinities of 25–30 parts per thousand in combination with British Columbia's cool spring temperatures favor the flourishing of sea lice."

As a result, the premise that "salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival" is false, which makes (C) correct.

You raise an interesting question about cool spring temperatures being an "edge case" of an otherwise reliable premise. Should we assume the premise that "salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival" is generally sound? If so, would that make it true?

Unfortunately, the passage doesn't give us any evidence to help resolve this question. We know that the marine biologist has cited numerous studies, but we have no idea how complete or representative those studies are. All we know is that the professor claims the premise is not ALWAYS true. In other words, the professor claims the premise is false.

Yet even if we could somehow prove that the professor's point about cool spring temperatures was just an "edge case," how would that affect the premise?

Notice the premise doesn't say that salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are GENERALLY unfavorable to sea-lice survival, but simply that they ARE unfavorable to sea-lice survival. So if any situations arise where salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are favorable to sea lice, that would show the premise as written is false. So either way, (C) is the best answer.

I hope that helps!
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Re: Professor: A marine biologist argues that transmission of sea lice fro [#permalink]
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Elite097 wrote:
I am not really sure about the justification given for both the cases presented to justify against the conclusion that the premise is false. I do think that the premise can easily be true if cool temp is an additional evidence, considering which professor is make his argument but this surely does not convey that the premise as false because cool temp is basically giving an additional reason for professor's conclusion. We cannot say the biologist is wrong because we do not have an evidence to show his premise is false. If his premise is true, then also professor can make use of his premise + cool temp to argue that this would be favourable to transmission of sea lice.

I think you misunderstood the question, Elite097. Answer choice (C) claims the following:
Quote:
the professor attempts to undermine the biologist's argument by claiming that there is evidence showing that one of its premises is false

The question didn't ask us whether WE believe the premise is true or false. The question asks us about the professor's position - not our position, not reality. Just the professor's position.
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Professor: A marine biologist argues that transmission of sea lice fro [#permalink]
GMATNinja

I have two questions.

1) What does 'the' mean in the phrase 'a review of THE literature'? Does it imply that the professor reviewed the same studies that the biologist had referred to? Or does it imply that he reviewed all of the relevant literature out there on this topic?

2) How is the biologist's premise and the professor's corrective premise related to the biologist's conclusion? Both the premise (bio's and prof's) are about conditions necessary for proliferation of sea lice in wild salmons. But the conclusion is about transmission of sea lice FROM FARM SALMONS (FS) TO WILD SALMONS (WS)? How is whether sea lice can survive where wild salmons live related to sea lice being transmitted from farm salmons to wild salmons?

I am thinking the sea lice could have been transmitted from FS to WS irrespective of whether it survived after transmission. After all, the transmission is happening from FS to WS and not the other way around. The salinities related conditions have been mentioned with respect to WS and not FS.
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Re: Professor: A marine biologist argues that transmission of sea lice fro [#permalink]
Quote:
C. claiming that there is evidence showing that one of its premises is false
The biologist thinks that sea lice transmission is unlikely because the conditions in the archipelago "tend to suppress" sea-lice proliferation. The professor provides additional information, and then says that, actually, the conditions "favor the flourishing of sea lice."

Because the information provided by the professor completely contradicts the biologist's premise, we can determine that this additional evidence shows that the biologist's premise is false.

(C) is looking good.

D. questioning the reliability of the biologist's scientific sources
The professor never questions WHERE the biologist got his/her information, or the validity of those sources. (D) is out.



Hi KarishmaB GMATNinja

I was stuck between (C) and (D) and ended up choosing the wrong answer. Below is my understanding, please help!

Biologist:

Conclusion: ''transmission of sea lice from farm salmon to wild salmon is unlikely in the Broughton Archipelago, British Columbia
Premise-1: numerous studies suggesting that salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival.
Premise-2: archipelago's 25–30 parts per thousand salinity range tends to suppress sea-lice proliferation.

Prof. X: salinities of 25–30 parts per thousand in combination with cool spring temperatures favor the flourishing of sea lice.

So, when Prof. provides the evidence, it automatically attacks ''Premise-1'' as well, right? Doesn't the Prof's evidence question the ''numerous studies findings'' as well?
This is why i chose (D) over (C), even though both seemed equally probable.

Thanks :please:
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Re: Professor: A marine biologist argues that transmission of sea lice fro [#permalink]
 
AjiteshArun wrote:
tt147 wrote:
The Professor is saying the Marine Biologist missed the effect of British Columbia's cool spring temperatures ( in combination with 25-30 parts per thousand salinity). Hence this shows Marine Biologist missed one component in his/her premise and that is why his/her conclusion is inconsistent with its premises.


Please help me to understand where am I going wrong ?

Hi tt147,

If we say that a "conclusion is inconsistent with its premises", what we mean is that we can't get to that conclusion from its premises. But we can get to the biologist's conclusion as long as we assume that every premise is correct. So, if it is actually the case that

1. salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival
and
2. the archipelago's salinity is 25–30 parts per thousand between March and June, the critical period for wild salmon migration

then we should be able to conclude that

3. transmission of sea lice from farm salmon to wild salmon is unlikely in the archipelago.

What the professor does is bring in new information that helps us see that (1) doesn't hold under certain conditions (a review of the literature shows that...). This is very different from saying "the premises are fine but we can't get to the conclusion using that support".

­ Hi AjiteshArun, What's wrong with option D? Reliability means not trustable,right? Isn't that's what happening here.the biologist gives evidence through the studies that salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival. Professor argument attacks it.So,one can doubt the evidence given by studies,right? ie. we cannot trust the trueness of the studies. What's the flaw in my answer?
 
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Re: Professor: A marine biologist argues that transmission of sea lice fro [#permalink]
 
KarishmaB wrote:
parkhydel wrote:
Professor: A marine biologist argues that transmission of sea lice from farm salmon to wild salmon is unlikely in the Broughton Archipelago, British Columbia, citing numerous studies suggesting that salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival. The biologist concludes that the archipelago's 25–30 parts per thousand salinity range between March and June, the critical period for wild salmon migration, tends to suppress sea-lice proliferation. But a review of the literature shows that salinities of 25–30 parts per thousand in combination with British Columbia's cool spring temperatures favor the flourishing of sea lice.

In this passage, the professor attempts to undermine the biologist's argument by


A. pointing out that a condition claimed to be necessary for sea-lice survival is not sufficient for it

B. citing studies that suggest that salinity levels were not measured reliably

C. claiming that there is evidence showing that one of its premises is false

D. questioning the reliability of the biologist's scientific sources

E. showing that its conclusion is inconsistent with its premises


CR81021.02


Here is the video solution to this problem: https://youtu.be/wHlmmLzIx3Q

This is what the Professor says:

- A biologist argues that transmission of sea lice from farm salmon to wild salmon is unlikely because salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival.
- The biologist concludes that the archipelago's 25–30 parts per thousand salinity range will suppress sea-lice proliferation.
- But a review of the literature shows that salinities of 25–30 parts per thousand in combination with British Columbia's cool spring temperatures favor the flourishing of sea lice.

So the Professor tells us that as per the Biologist, salinities less than 30 ppt are unfavourable to sea lice. But a review of lit shows that 25-30 ppt salinities with cool temp favours sea lice.

So the Professor claims that one of the Biologist's premises (salinities less than 30 ppt are unfavourable to sea lice) is false.

Hence answer is (C)

tt147 -

E. showing that its conclusion is inconsistent with its premises

The professor does not undermine the biologist's argument by showing that the biologist's conclusion is inconsistent with his premises.
The biologist's premises (salinities less than 30 ppt are unfavourable to sea lice, Archipelago has 25–30 ppt salinity range between March and June, March and June the critical period for wild salmon migration) are in line with his conclusion (transmission of sea lice from farm salmon to wild salmon is unlikely in the Broughton Archipelago)

The Professor states that one of his premises (salinities less than 30 ppt are unfavourable to sea lice) itself is false.

­Hi KarishmaB, Can u pls explain me  What's wrong with option D? Reliability means not trustable,right? Isn't that's what happening here.the biologist gives evidence through the studies that salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival. Professor argument attacks it. He says less than 30 ppt is favourable for sea lice. So,one can doubt the evidence given by studies,right? ie. we cannot trust the trueness of the studies. What's the flaw in my answer?
 

 
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imRaj wrote:
­ Hi AjiteshArun, What's wrong with option D? Reliability means not trustable,right? Isn't that's what happening here.the biologist gives evidence through the studies that salinities less than 30 parts per thousand are unfavorable to sea-lice survival. Professor argument attacks it.So,one can doubt the evidence given by studies,right? ie. we cannot trust the trueness of the studies. What's the flaw in my answer?

­Hi imRaj,

I don't think that your answer is flawed, but there are a couple of things we should keep in mind:

1. The professor doesn't say that {salinities < 30 ppt are unfavorable to sea-lice survival} is always wrong. He/she says that it's wrong under certain conditions (BC spring). At best, we can say that the professor questions the studies only indirectly/weakly.

2. We should choose the best option. Option C basically tells us that the professor brings in evidence to show that one of the biologist's premises is false. This is great, because (a) the professor does bring in evidence (a review of the literature shows that...), and (b) we don't need to worry about whether the studies are wrong or the biologist's inference is wrong, as the option just says that one of them is wrong.

Option D, on the other hand, isn't as accurate. "Questioning" is not as precise as "claiming that there is evidence", and "the reliability of the biologist's scientific sources" forces us to target only one of the premises.­­­
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