Ask Alex @ MBA Apply

In short, you're in a bit of a bind for Columbia, since it only has 2 rounds (unlike other schools that have 3 rounds or more) - they admit a large chunk of their class from their Early Decision round, which means it's much harder to get in through their Regular Decision round.

However, you are right that your GPA will be an issue. Yes, engineering GPAs are given more slack (they're graded on a much harsher curve), but below 3.0 is going to be a concern. So what you really need to do is the following:

1. Take a few extra quant courses - doesn't have to be upper level electives; it could be freshman level college classes in calculus, statistics, algebra, accounting, finance, physics, microeconomics, macroeconomics, etc. Take 2-3 courses and ace them. You can also enroll in online classes as long as the university is accredited (i.e. UCLA online extension is a popular one). This will help you build an alternate transcript.

2. Your GMAT is okay, but if you are confident you can score a 740+ (or ideally 760+ given your low GPA), then it may be worth studying for a retake as well.

Beyond that, your work experience is solid - it's not cookie cutter but still familiar enough to the adcoms that they know you'll have no problems fitting in with your fellow MBA classmates.

So with that in mind, yes, you should wait until R2 - and as for Columbia, while Regular Decision is harder than Early Decision, I think in your case it may be worth the gamble of submitting Regular Decision after having addressed your low GPA (alternate transcript, higher GMAT) than submitting Early Decision as is.

Good news is that it's not fatal as there are folks who have gotten in with sub-3.0 GPAs (especially engineers), and that it's also addressable (you can find ways to address it).

Finally, even if you had a strong GPA, I wouldn't limit it to just 3 schools. Try and go for 6-8 schools, as it's a numbers game. You want to apply to 2-3 stretches, and 3-4 sweet spots, and maybe 1 safety. Stretches for you will be top 8 schools (Tuck, Sloan, Columbia, Booth, Kellogg, Haas), sweet spots will be top 16 schools (UCLA, Cornell, Yale, Stern, Duke, Darden, Ross), and safeties will be outside the top 16 (Canadian schools like Ivey, Rotman and top 30 US schools).

Good luck!

Thank you Alex for the providing the straight forward directions!!! I will take up your advice on taking the extra courses and improving my GMAT. Other than this, is there anything else I should do to improve my chances before R2 (join any organizations, etc) ?

thank you!

Don't join orgs at this point - it'll look like window dressing, because there's nothing you can contribute or achieve by simply joining an org as a newbie. Furthermore, you have enough to do as it is with the additional coursework and GMAT retake.

Dear Alex,

I am new to GMAT Club. I took the GMAT yesterday (9/13/14) and got a 640. The breakdown of my score is as follows: IR - 8, Quant - 39 (43rd percentile), and Verbal - 38 (85th percentile). I understand that most admissions folks focus on the core 800 scale score, and that having too big of a difference between quant and verbal is not a great thing.

A little bit about my background: For undergrad, I went to a University of California school and my cumulative GPA was 3.41. I currently work for a subsidiary of Goldman Sachs, and have been there for 4 years. During my tenure, I've had two promotions. I am entrusted with a majority of the responsibilities on my team. In addition, I train many of the new hires frequently (pretty much every new class we've had, I've trained), and I also do a good amount of community service.

I am interested in applying to the following schools: University of Indiana, University of Wisconsin at Madison, and Boston College. I was wondering if anyone could give me insight as to what my chances may be of getting in. My GMAT score is not too far off of each schools' average, and I've also read posts stating that it's also important to look at the 80% range of GMAT scores for the schools. Any insight would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

The 80% range is more relevant to top 16 schools. For the range of schools you're looking at, your current composite GMAT score is within range. With that said though, your low quant will be a concern.

What I strongly suggest is to retake the GMAT - not to get a higher composite score, but to boost that quant. For the schools you listed, it doesn't have to be 80%, but even if you can get it into the 70% or so, that would be ideal. It basically means getting a few more correct answers on the quant section, which you should be able to do with a bit more surgical prep work on the quant by enrolling in a GMAT prep class or hiring a private tutor. Beyond that, you have a solid professional profile for the schools you mentioned, and if you end up with an even stronger total GMAT score (i.e. your verbal score is the same but your quant is in the 70% or even 80% - that likely means a high 600s or even a 700+), you may also want to target some top 16 schools such as UCLA, Stern, Cornell, Yale, Duke, Darden, and Ross.

Good luck

THREE PRINCIPLES TO REMEMBER WHEN PREPARING FOR YOUR INTERVIEW

With the interviews coming up for R1 applicants, there are really only three main things to keep in mind in preparing for them:

1. Know the key themes: your background and upbringing, where you went to school, what you enjoy, your goals, why you love the specific b-school, your strengths and weaknesses, your proudest accomplishments, key moments when you were a leader, your mistakes/failures, and so forth. If you have stories and specifics for each of these themes, you would’ve covered just about any b-school interview question. You don’t want to get too surgical about it, or else you can come across as overly rehearsed and stiff. Remember that the interview is a conversation, not an interrogation. Since the interviewer only has your resume, a lot of the questions will come from what they’ve seen in your resume (reiterations, follow ups, clarifications, elaborations, etc).

2. Practice speaking OUT LOUD in a very organic and natural way around these key themes. Do not just sit there silently going through your notes. It may feel strange to talk to yourself, but you’ll get used to it very quickly. By talking through the key themes out loud, you’ll find that you’ll stumble through a few points in ways that you may have never uncovered had you just silently gone through it. You might even get nervous or tentative the first few times you do it, but you’ll find that the more you do it, the more comfortable you will be. Remember that thinking is not doing – and communicating is doing.

3. Do a mock interview with a colleague, spouse, friend, family member or consultant (or all of them if you can). A big part of doing well in an interview is focusing on listening and responding, and getting used to talking about your b-school profile in a conversational way (since talking about yourself in a b-school context is not exactly something you’d do everyday) so that you come across as engaged. You want to be talking *with * the interviewer and not *at * the interviewer.

Hi Alex,

Indian/ male / 31 years

Undergrad - Bachelor of Engineering in Computer Science from 9th ranked college in India - 70.4%
MBA - Indian Institute of Management - Top B school in India - majors in Finance - 2.98/4.33
CFA charterholder since 2013

WE
Pre MBA - 2 years in a IT company as Test Engineer

Post MBA -
1.5 years of experience in Corporate finance department of Cognizant Technologies
2 years of Experience in Equity Research at HSBC
2 years working with a Private Equity fund - working on fundraising and investments
Have few strong points in my experience but most of the experience has been in India with few onsite travels.

Some extra curricular and social activities but nothing out of the world

GMATScore
Overall - 720 (94 percentile)
Verbal - 40 (91%)
Quant - 49 (79%)
AWA - 5 (60%)
IR - 6 (67%)

Target - To do MBA from top B school and continue in Finance

Stretch - Wharton, Chicago Booth
Target - LBS (masters in finance), Kellogs (1 year MBA), INSEAD, Sloan
Safety - don't want this. Either it should be top school or I will duck the idea and continue with the job. However, open to consider and college / course that you want to suggest

Will really appreciate a quick response as I am already delayed and would like to start the process as soon as possible

Thanks
Sanchit

To be honest, you're in a bit of a tough spot in terms of full-time MBA programs given the fact that you already have an MBA. You have a solid profile, but even amongst the Indian nationals that are applying (which you'll be benchmarked against), the following two groups will have an advantage over you:

1. Indian nationals currently working full-time in North America/Europe. These are the folks who came over to do their MS (in engineering) and who are working at global companies like yourself, but based in North America/Europe. Yes, most of them are working in engineering which makes it harder to distinguish one from the other, but as a group the ones with the strongest profiles (and there are more than enough of them) will have a leg up on you in the application process.

2. Indian nationals based in India, but who don't have MBAs but are working at top tier global firms such as McKinsey/Bain/BCG, or the major investment banks such as Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, etc. Yes, they don't have the post-MBA experience that you have nor do they have an MBA, but they are also the kinds of applicants that the adcoms would much rather take on.

If you need to scratch that itch, by all means apply. But just know that it's likely a long shot, and at this point, you seem to already be in a good place in terms of your career. I'm sure you were hoping for a more optimistic reply, but I also have to be honest here. Good luck

Thanks for your feedback Alex.

I was aware of these facts even before I started the preparation for GMAT. And in addition to your reasons even my age will work against me.
But thankfully I know few people with similar profile who have made it through

I know a girl who went to wharton
My MBA college seniors are in INSEAD and Kellogs
Two of my ex-colleagues are MiF graduate

So I know it will be tough but not impossible. And whats the fun in doing something if the odds are not against u :)

My questions still stand -
1) Do you thing it is worth it to even apply for colleges like Wharton / Chicago
2) Does Stern accept 2nd MBA applicants?
3) What do you think are my chances of getting into LBS Mif, Kellogs?
4) MIT Sloan - They have also started a "Master of Science in Management Studies" course for people who have prior MBA. What is the reputation of this course ?
5) INSEAD - Given that I will be looking for job after MBA - Should I apply for currently ongoing 10 month MBA or should I wait and apply for Jan 16 entry wherein I will internship option and thus better chance at getting a job.
6) Any other course / college that you may suggest given my profile

Look, it seems like you really want to apply. Go for it - but just know that your chances are slim at any good b-school, given the fact that you already have an MBA.

And it's Kellogg (not Kellogs, Kelloggs, Kelog, etc - for some reason so many applicants rarely misspell any other school name, but if there are any misspellings, it's Kellogg).

Hi Sir,

My Brief Stats are as follows:

UG: Btech NIT Calicut( Tier 2 Engineering College India ), GPA: 6.95/10, Highest GPA was 8.8/10, Class rank: 17/42, No of Distinctions in class( GPA 8 and above): 8

GMAT, GRE: Yet to give I am contemplating something around 700 or 720.

Actually my story goes as follows..

Before entering college I had to drop a year during my 11th grade because my dad got a transfer to a different part of the country & after completing my 12th grade I again took a year off for the purpose of coaching myself for the prestigious IITJEE exam.Thus as you can seen I was about 20 years old when I entered college.


I graduated from a tier 2 Engineering college in India ( NIT), however I had serious health issues during my first year of college and hence i couldn't attend classes for half of the semester..( I received 6 F grades because of this..).My dad who happens to be a doctor of course treated me, hence I can provide some reasoning for this in my Essays as well as in some recommendation letters from some of my professors who know me quite well. Towards the end of my college I had began to do a bit of financial modelling and with sufficient interest I had taken up my final year thesis with a professor of my college for a financial modelling and optimization project.

I became interested in this field and again took up another 2 finance project under the same professor, all based on higher degrees of financial modelling and optmization ( He is now an Assistant Professor at IIM Indore). Since I needed time to put myself into this track I had to devote near to around 8 months solely for making out these thesis and subsequently publishing them into an International Finance Journal. These 3 projects have now been published.. I have plans also to present them in a national or an international conference.

After 8 months of research in finance i decided to spend some time in doing social cause work and for around another 7 months was actively working for 3 to 4 NGOs in the field of Child rights, Environment protection etc..helping them with fundraising and campaigning. I was also subsequently offered to become a campus ambassador for a micro finance NGO in helping them find investors for the firms operations.( I am presently doing this apart from my full time work)

Thus after 1.5 years after graduation I joined for a job in Dubai at a reputed I bank. My plan further down the lane is to take a one year MS in finance preferably in US course by applying for a sabbatical at my firm. ( partly because it will help me understanding more about finance and also it would help me in offsetting my GPA in UG).

Along the way I have taken CFA level 1 and 2 and FRM level 1 and 2 as well. Also I am planning to take up GRE Math ( apart from GRE and GMAT) as well some UC Berkeley extension courses to help rectify my academics ( prior to my MS In Finance).

My dillema here is take a trade off between taking up an MS in Finance and gaining a substantial boost to my profile in term of academic and other prospects or to use those precious 1 to 1.5 years for work experience since I am already aging quite fast with respect to an MBA application.



Now the point is that i would be around 31 or 32 by the time I have 4 to 5 years of experience. What kind of MBA program should I target for in your opinion? ie to say should I opt for an E MBA or a part time MBA program. Or Can I still make it into top 10 full time programs programs..?

Or can you provide me some guidance in stating what would the ideal thing to do in my case if I am aiming for top 10 MBA programs..?

Hope you can help me out.

The fact that you seem mentally preoccupied with academics suggests that you should work for a few more years.

In the real world, no one really cares about your grades, test scores, etc. They care about what you've achieved on the job. The longer you are in the workforce, the more you will also appreciate this not only in your own career development, but that of your colleagues and future subordinates that you supervise.

At this point you shouldn't be thinking about yet more school (or more credentials - from your post, it seems like you're seeking credentials, as if credentials are the main way towards career progress).

Focus on your full-time career. As an adult, your resume going forward will hinge more on the quality of your work experience, and not a long list of credentials whether it's an MS, MBA, CFA, CPA, FRM, or whatever acronym you can add to that list of exams and titles.

And the quality of your work experience comes from what you achieve on the job, the success of your company/employer, and the caliber of your colleagues with whom you work with and can learn from.

The MBA or MS isn't really what you should even be thinking about at this point.

Thank you very much Sir, for your insights into my profile.

Before going further I would just like to state a few points so as to make my profile look clear and logical.

A. I am interested into risk management which is why I took up my FRM courses. However I still find that even while working i find myself facing awkward situations rather due to my technical back ground. I was hoping that a degree would set things right for me.

B. The other thing why I wanted to take an MS degree was because of the fact that I had ups and downs during my UG.. Although this can be explained through a recommendation letter or an Essay, I still do feel that unless I am able to show my skills in a real live classroom things would still be unclear.


Do you think I could go for a top MBA in the future, when the cause would necessitate for one.

Again, stop worrying about your undergrad grades. You are a working adult now. Focus on your full-time job, your career. How you progress going forward hinges on the quality of your work experience, and not trying to collect credentials as a substitute for that. If you continue to focus on academics and credentials rather than on building great work experience, you won't be competitive for a top b-school, nor will you progress in the way you hope for in your professional career.

Thank you Sir for your power thoughts..!

Looks like I will have to change my plans a little.. I will try my best to make a difference in my career profile. Will let you in the know if anything interesting turns up..

Posted from my mobile device

Hi Alex,

I was wondering if you could do a profile evaluation for me; I’m planning to apply next year (for Fall 2016) but I would like to know what my strengths and weaknesses are now so I can improve upon them. My goal is to eventual transition into management consulting where I would better be able to utilize my skill-set as well as expand upon it in a fast-pace environment (obviously, my essay and interviews will phrase that better but I don’t want to bore you). Any help would be greatly appreciated.

29 (at matriculation)/male/white

Certifications: CPA, CFE

GMAT: 750

Undergrad GPA: 3.6 (Top 30 school, major: Math-Econ)

Grad GPA: 3.45 (Masters in Accounting , top 5 accounting program)

Work Experience (at matriculation): 2 years at Big 4 in IT Audit, 3 years in data analytics within the finance department at large US telecom (current job). Promoted once at each job; I believe/hope that I will be promoted again at my current job.

Extracurricular Activities: children’s charity, park trail recovery, volunteer at charity golf tournament (PGA event), Toastmasters

Schools considered: Penn, Chicago, MIT, UVA, Duke, UNC

In short, all you have to do at this point is to continue doing what you're doing, and apply next year. You've chosen a good range of schools (top 8, top 16, top 30) so you've got the right idea about where you stand.

There's not really anything you can do to improve your profile -- your profile would be stronger if you had more school and employer pedigree (i.e. went to an Ivy/equivalent, worked at McKinsey instead of Big-4 audit, or worked in IB/PE instead of your current position), which means basically nothing that is in your control or that you could compensate for this late in the game (i.e. the only thing that could compensate for less pedigree is being an outlier in some other area, such as being a nationally ranked athlete in college, Olympic trials, NCAA D-1 football/basketball, professional dancer/singer/actor, etc.). And as you know, any substantial achievement in any endeavor is the culmination of years if not decades of work and sacrifice (and failures/disappointments along the way), and not something you can just pull off the shelf in one year without it looking like window dressing.

Again, you've got a strong enough profile right now that you should be focused on just continuing with what you're doing, and when it comes time to apply, to focus on doing the best you can on the applications themselves. There are plenty of folks like yourself at these top schools, so just focus on executing the applications and hope for the best. Good luck