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At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti

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At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 20 Aug 2018, 04:51
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A
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D
E

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At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards.


(A) land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards

(B) land, a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians and respected by the Spaniards

(C) land, respected by the Spaniards and a pre-Columbian form of ownership

(D) land in which a pre-Columbian form of ownership was respected by the Spaniards

(E) land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards

Originally posted by vishalsuri on 11 Jun 2007, 22:14.
Last edited by Bunuel on 20 Aug 2018, 04:51, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards.

(A) land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards ---
(B) land, a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians and respected by the Spaniards
(C) land, respected by the Spaniards and a pre-Columbian form of ownership
(D) land in which a pre-Columbian form of ownership was respected by the Spaniards
(E) land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards

POE: Grammar first. B and C are out for faulty parallelism. E is out because of the touch rule of the restrictive pronoun ‘that’, which cannot but modify anything but the land.

Logic: D is out because the communal owners itself was a form of ownership and not one in which another pre-Columbian form of ownership existed. This is a logical error.

A remains although the repetition of ‘to’ might unnerve sometimes. But considering that all others have more serious flaws, A can be safely construed as the best fit.

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Originally posted by daagh on 20 Dec 2015, 08:58.
Last edited by daagh on 29 Jul 2017, 08:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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New post 11 Jul 2007, 09:13
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vishalsuri wrote:
153. At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards.
(A) land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards
(B) land, a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians and respected by the Spaniards
(C) land, respected by the Spaniards and a pre-Columbian form of ownership
(D) land in which a pre-Columbian form of ownership was respected by the Spaniards
(E) land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards

I marked B and got it wrong.


I felt this question was incredibly hard. It took me 10 minutes to figure this one out (and another 10 minutes to type this out) :lol: . I was not satisfied with the reasoning from previous posts in regard to this question. Here is my reasoning:

153. At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards.
(A) land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards
correct. past perfect tense correctly used. had been....respected. The ownership occured before the Spaniards respected it.

(B) land, a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians and respected by the Spaniards
incorrectly uses precolumbian as a noun. In the stem it was used as an adjective to modify ownership.

(C) land, respected by the Spaniards and a pre-Columbian form of ownership
This distorts the meaning of the sentence in that the pre-columbian form of ownership still exists. Zapata and his followers wanted to RETURN to what had been this form of ownership.

(D) land in which a pre-Columbian form of ownership was respected by the Spaniards
in which incorrectly restricts land rather than the ownership of land.
Example: I have ownership of land that stretches as far as the eye can see.


(E) land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards
same error as D.
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Re: At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Apr 2010, 07:36
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It took me a very long time to understand the sentence...

I will try explaining the reason between A and E.

If we break the sentence in parts....

At the time of the ........, the most radical faction,...., proposed a return to communal ownership of....., to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by Spaniards

In E, the sentence reads

At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction,...., proposed a return to communal ownership of land, that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards. ==> In this sentence the word "that" seems to be modifying "land" which is not the intent of the sentence.

The sentence says....

The proposal is to return to communal ownership to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership

153. At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards.

(A) land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards
(B) land, a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians and respected by the Spaniards - awkward
(C) land, respected by the Spaniards and a pre-Columbian form of ownership - awkward
(D) land in which a pre-Columbian form of ownership was respected by the Spaniards
(E) land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards
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Re: At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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New post 05 Oct 2010, 01:32
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At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards.

Ok I will try. Others, let me know if I am wrong.

I picked A mainly because all other options change the meaning of the sentence. According to the initial sentence, Zapata and his followers proposed return to communal ownership of land which was to REPLACE the then used pre-Columbian form respected by Spaniards.

So communal ownership is a different form than the one being practiced then i.e pre-Columbian form.

"to what had been" is what conveys this.

Apart from option A, all other sentences alter the meaning.
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Re: At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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New post 05 Oct 2010, 07:39
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Original SC:
At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards.

Let us simplify it :
At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, proposed a return to X, to what had been Y.

Meaning:
The radical faction proposed to replace Y with X.
Type of ownership during the Agarian revolution - Y
What type of ownership did the radical faction want ? - X
They wanted to move to X by replacing Y with X.


This is actually a modifier and IIlism type SC.

Modifier because "to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards" modifies "communal ownership of land"

IIlism because -
return to X, to what had been Y.

At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards.
A. land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards
>>>Correct

B. land, a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians and respected by the Spaniards
>>> Changes the meaning of the SC. It means the radical faction wants to move to "communal ownership of land" which was respected by spaniards. Wrong
Another flaw - Pre-columbians used "communal ownership of land". This is out of scope. The scope of the SC is limited to the radical faction vs Spaniards and Communcal ownership vs pre-Columbian form of ownership

C. land, respected by the Spaniards and a pre-Columbian form of ownership
>>>Changes the meaning of the SC. It means the spaniards respected "communal ownership of land" . Wrong

D. land in which a pre-Columbian form of ownership was respected by the Spaniards
>>> Changes the meaning of the SC.
It looks like the SC is trying to say " pre-Columbian form of ownership" is a subset of "Communal ownership"

E. land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards

>>> Changes the meaning of the SC.
It looks like the SC is trying to say "Communal ownership" was " pre-Columbian form of ownership"
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Re: At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jul 2012, 10:01
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THis is a curve ball.

In past a radical faction proposed a return to communal ownership, which used to be pre-Columbian form of ownership in futher past.
So I hope that we all see the timeline issue - Past and past perfect.

This leaves us with A and E.


153. At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards.
(A) land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards
Perfect.

(E) land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards
It sounds as if the land itself was pre Columbian form of ownership - so incorrect.

Let me rewrite the E again.
In past, a radical faction proposed a return to communal ownership of land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards
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Re: At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Aug 2013, 12:04
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vishalsuri wrote:
At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards.
(A) land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards
(B) land, a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians and respected by the Spaniards
(C) land, respected by the Spaniards and a pre-Columbian form of ownership
(D) land in which a pre-Columbian form of ownership was respected by the Spaniards
(E) land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards


ANALYZE THE QUESTION:

"Propose X to Y" is correct idiom in which X and Y should match.

The non-underlined part says: ....proposed a return to communal ownership of land......... Can you propose "a return" to "a communal ownership"? No, because "a return" and "communal ownership" do not match in meaning. Thus, "a return to communal ownership of land" is only a NOUN PHRASE.

The intended meaning is: the faction of Zapata and his followers proposed [a return to communal ownership of land], to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards.

Note: there is no problem with the comma before "to". A comma may be used to separate two elements in a sentence. (Please refer to Manhattan Gmat sentence correction - page 195).

ANALYZE EACH ANSWER:

(A) land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards
Correct. As stated above.

(B) land, a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians and respected by the Spaniards
Wrong.
- "a form of ownership of...." is the appositive modifier which modifies "communal ownership of land". Actually, you're comparing "a return" with "communal ownership of land". Does that make sense? No. As analyzed above, "a return" and "communal ownership of land" do not match each other.
- Change intended meaning: what Zapata and his followers want is "the change to what had been....", not "a communal ownership of land".

(C) land, respected by the Spaniards and a pre-Columbian form of ownership
Wrong.
- "respected by...." is Verb-ed modifier which modifies preceding noun phrase "communal ownership of land" ==> You repeat the same error in B. You're comparing "a return" with "communal ownership of land". Does not make sense.
- Change meaning: as in B.

(D) land in which a pre-Columbian form of ownership was respected by the Spaniards
Wrong.
- Same as B and C. "in which....." modifies "communal ownership of land" ==> You're comparing "a return" with "communal ownership of land". Does not make sense.
- Change meaning: as in B and C.

(E) land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards
Wrong.
- Because of preposition "of" (ownership of land), so that may modify "communal ownership of land". You repeat the same error in B, C, D. You're comparing "a return" with "communal ownership of land". Does not make sense.
- Change meaning: as in B, C, and D.

Hope it helps.
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Re: At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Dec 2015, 06:04
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souvik101990 wrote:
At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards.

A. land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards

B. land, a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians and respected by the Spaniards

C. land, respected by the Spaniards and a pre-Columbian form of ownership

D. land in which a pre-Columbian form of ownership was respected by the Spaniards

E. land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards


lets first eliminate the straight wrong choices...
1)
D. land in which a pre-Columbian form of ownership was respected by the Spaniards
E. land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards

both the choices wrongly modify land in the second clause where form of ownership is to be modified..

2)
C. land, respected by the Spaniards and a pre-Columbian form of ownership..
changes the meaning .. what is being respected by the spaniards..

3) in the remaining two, B is better constructed but changes the meaning by use of 'and'.....
in the original, spaniards respect a pre-Columbian form of ownership but B has made the two parts parallel..

the answer is A, although the construction is slightly complicated
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Re: At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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New post 09 Sep 2016, 19:53
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ynk wrote:
Can anyone please explain why 'E' is wrong here ?


At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards.

B,C and D can eliminated easily.

A. land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards
vs.
E. land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards

option A and E are both grammatically correct, however there is slight difference in intended meaning between A and E

A. says zapata and his followers proposed a communal ownership of land, and the concept of such ownership was pre-columbian and was respected by spaniards
E says zapata and his followers proposed a communal ownership of land, and this land specifically had pre-columbian form of ownership which was respected by spaniards

since we want to stay as close as possible to original question A would be better answer.

I hope this helps
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Re: At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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New post 29 Nov 2017, 14:20
RonPurewal kindly explain all the choices.
Also in E , some people are writing that modifies land, however i saw someone's post in which it was written "in fact "THAT" is a beautiful word and it has a capacity to refer to FAR FLUNG nouns (this has been told by RON many times) .in fact if you are eliminating E for that reason then u might land up eliminating many good choices in official questions ." Its Aditya's post by the way.

Kindly explain all choices , and what is 'THAT" modifying ?? in E.
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Re: At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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New post 06 Jan 2018, 09:43
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sahilvijay wrote:
RonPurewal kindly explain all the choices.
Also in E , some people are writing that modifies land, however i saw someone's post in which it was written "in fact "THAT" is a beautiful word and it has a capacity to refer to FAR FLUNG nouns (this has been told by RON many times) .in fact if you are eliminating E for that reason then u might land up eliminating many good choices in official questions ." Its Aditya's post by the way.

Kindly explain all choices , and what is 'THAT" modifying ?? in E.


sahilvijay

Dear friend ,you have raised a very interesting issue here and here are my two cents.But before that I would like to inform you that Ron doesn't post answers on the questions written by other prep companies.And now a days he only writes in official manhattan forum.So tagging the great ron will not help much I guess.

Now coming back to the simplified version of your question is that if we have "Noun1 + preposition + Noun2 + that modifier," can the modifier modify the first noun? Or is it that it always modifies the second noun?
A relative pronoun (like "that" and "which") can be used to modify the noun immediately before it, but it can also be used to modify a noun further away if the pronoun and the noun being described are separated by a prepositional phrase. To figure out which one is being modified, we have to understand the rest of the sentence.
You see in option E, that modifies only land or only communal ownership does not make sense So even if E is grammatically correct, it does not convey the intended meaning as does A.
I'm very happy to post an official question(Diagnostic test OG 13 Problem 50. ) and the analysis by Manhattan forum moderator.

https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... 21976.html
Any correction of my post or any information by the original author will be great.
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Re: At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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New post 09 May 2018, 11:20
techiesam wrote:
sahilvijay wrote:
RonPurewal kindly explain all the choices.
Also in E , some people are writing that modifies land, however i saw someone's post in which it was written "in fact "THAT" is a beautiful word and it has a capacity to refer to FAR FLUNG nouns (this has been told by RON many times) .in fact if you are eliminating E for that reason then u might land up eliminating many good choices in official questions ." Its Aditya's post by the way.

Kindly explain all choices , and what is 'THAT" modifying ?? in E.


sahilvijay

Dear friend ,you have raised a very interesting issue here and here are my two cents.But before that I would like to inform you that Ron doesn't post answers on the questions written by other prep companies.And now a days he only writes in official manhattan forum.So tagging the great ron will not help much I guess.

Now coming back to the simplified version of your question is that if we have "Noun1 + preposition + Noun2 + that modifier," can the modifier modify the first noun? Or is it that it always modifies the second noun?
A relative pronoun (like "that" and "which") can be used to modify the noun immediately before it, but it can also be used to modify a noun further away if the pronoun and the noun being described are separated by a prepositional phrase. To figure out which one is being modified, we have to understand the rest of the sentence.
You see in option E, that modifies only land or only communal ownership does not make sense So even if E is grammatically correct, it does not convey the intended meaning as does A.
I'm very happy to post an official question(Diagnostic test OG 13 Problem 50. ) and the analysis by Manhattan forum moderator.

https://www.manhattanprep.com/gmat/foru ... 21976.html
Any correction of my post or any information by the original author will be great.


Bumping in for further discussion. In this official question, "that" is modifying neutrinos defying the touch rule:

As a result of a supernova explosion, every human being on Earth was bombarded on February 23, 1987, by about 100 billion neutrinos; fortunately, neutrinos are harmless elementary particles that are produced in nuclear reactions and that interact very weakly with matter.

(A) neutrinos are harmless elementary particles that are produced in nuclear reactions and that

(B) neutrinos, which are harmless, are elementary particles produced in nuclear reactions and which

(C) neutrinos are harmless elementary particles produced in nuclear reactions and which

(D) these harmless elementary particles are produced in nuclear reactions, and neutrinos

(E) these elementary particles, harmless products of nuclear reactions, are neutrinos that


The usage of "that" is getting extremely confusing. Can "that" refer to the noun it touches or can it go back to the noun in prepositional phrase? Is the "touch rule" an absolute one? Because if it is not, then it cannot be used for elimination of the answer choice E in the discussed question. Can anyone please help?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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New post 11 May 2018, 14:32
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urvashis09 wrote:

Bumping in for further discussion. In this official question, "that" is modifying neutrinos defying the touch rule:

As a result of a supernova explosion, every human being on Earth was bombarded on February 23, 1987, by about 100 billion neutrinos; fortunately, neutrinos are harmless elementary particles that are produced in nuclear reactions and that interact very weakly with matter.

(A) neutrinos are harmless elementary particles that are produced in nuclear reactions and that

(B) neutrinos, which are harmless, are elementary particles produced in nuclear reactions and which

(C) neutrinos are harmless elementary particles produced in nuclear reactions and which

(D) these harmless elementary particles are produced in nuclear reactions, and neutrinos

(E) these elementary particles, harmless products of nuclear reactions, are neutrinos that


The usage of "that" is getting extremely confusing. Can "that" refer to the noun it touches or can it go back to the noun in prepositional phrase? Is the "touch rule" an absolute one? Because if it is not, then it cannot be used for elimination of the answer choice E in the discussed question. Can anyone please help?

Thanks in advance!

A full discussion of the supernova question can be found here: https://gmatclub.com/forum/qotd-as-a-re ... l#p1899686

Bakshi, I'm not sure whether you were asking about the supernova question in urvashis09 's post, or the original question at the beginning of this thread. But I'll just say that the original question in this thread isn't from an official source, and I'd recommend spending your energy on official questions wherever possible -- especially when it comes to something as nuanced as the so-called "touch rule" (also addressed in this video and this post). Hopefully those links will answer your questions!
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At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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New post 23 May 2019, 15:50
daagh wrote:
At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards.

(A) land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards ---
(B) land, a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians and respected by the Spaniards
(C) land, respected by the Spaniards and a pre-Columbian form of ownership
(D) land in which a pre-Columbian form of ownership was respected by the Spaniards
(E) land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards

POE: Grammar first. B and C are out for faulty parallelism. E is out because of the touch rule of the restrictive pronoun ‘that’, which cannot but modify anything but the land.

Logic: D is out because the communal owners itself was a form of ownership and not one in which another pre-Columbian form of ownership existed. This is a logical error.

A remains although the repetition of ‘to’ might unnerve sometimes. But considering that all others have more serious flaws, A can be safely construed as the best fit.


Hi daagh

You mentioned that E is out because of the touch rule. But in the following question, we can see that "that" is modifying the preceding main noun group and not the birds. My questions is how do we know when the touch rule is applicable and when it's not.


A South American bird that forages for winged termites and other small insects while swinging upside down form the foliage of tall trees, but the graveteiro belongs to the ovenbird family, a group of New World tropical birds that includes more than 230 species and that are represented in virtually every kind of habitat.

A graveteiro belongs to the ovenbird family, a group of New World tropical birds that includes more than 230 species and that are

B. graveteiro belongs to the ovenbird family, a group of New World tropical birds that includes more than 230 species and is

C. graveteiro belongs to the ovenbird family, a group of New World tropical birds that include more than 230 species and is

D. graveteiro, which belongs to the ovenbird family, a group of New World tropical birds that includes more than 230 species and that are

E. graveteiro, which belongs to the ovenbird family, a group of New World tropical birds that includes more than 230 species and is


Thank you.
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Re: At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti  [#permalink]

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New post 25 May 2019, 03:15
vishalsuri wrote:
At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical faction, that of Zapata and his followers, proposed a return to communal ownership of land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards.


(A) land, to what had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards

(B) land, a form of ownership of the pre-Columbians and respected by the Spaniards

(C) land, respected by the Spaniards and a pre-Columbian form of ownership

(D) land in which a pre-Columbian form of ownership was respected by the Spaniards

(E) land that had been a pre-Columbian form of ownership respected by the Spaniards


this is very hard.
look at choice A and E.
that clause or similar clause such as "in which" clause of choice D, is used to define a noun. whenever we see this kind of clause, think that there are more than 1 kind of noun, for simplicity, think that there are 2 kinds of noun and one kind of noun is the kind which is defined by "that clause".

so, choice E means there are 2 (in fact more than 1) kinds of ownership, and they return to the kind that had been pre columbian form. this is not logic.

the intended meaning is there is only 1 kind of ownership. in history, there can not be 2 kinds of this ownership. choice E implies that there are many kinds of ownership. this meaning is absurd. choice E is gone.

choice D is wrong for the same reason as choice E is wrong.

touch rule declares that which/that clause should touch to noun modified. but this rule permit us to find the inferiors choice relative to a better choice. this rule is not hard and fast rule by the fact that many OA on og books contain which/that clause which do not touch the noun modifies.

gmat sc is hard because it requires us to be actively to find an error. only when we know this way, we can write. what is "active to find " error.

many times, we understand explanation but can not solve a new problem because we are not active. to be active to find error means we have to have skill.

one skill for problem regarding "that clause" is that

takeaway: whenever we see that clause, we think that there are 2 (more than 1) of the noun, and the sentence says about one kind of the noun which is defined by "that clause"

whenever we see "which" clause, think about cutting off this "which clause". if the remaining sentence after cutting off is good, which clause is correct.

above is example of "active to find error".
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Re: At the time of the Mexican agrarian revolution, the most radical facti   [#permalink] 25 May 2019, 03:15
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