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Re: European B-School Visits [#permalink]
jishjohnny wrote:
Hey Everyone,

I just returned a couple of weeks ago from travel in Europe. As a part of my trip I visited, LBS, INSEAD, Oxford Said, Cambridge Judge, IE Madrid, ESADE, IESE. I had either an interview with an adcom/admissions director or attended group information session and took a tour at every school I visited. As an Australia who had only accessed second hand information about these schools I was actually very surprised to see how many differences there were between them and to see how they approached different things. I have also found that while there is copious amounts of information about US schools for those looking at getting into Management Consulting there is not so much information comparing European schools with regards to opportunities for management consulting.

Just thought I would create a post to see if anyone is interested in having me share my experience as a way of contributing back to this forum and perhaps helping others who are looking for information about European schools. If enough people/anyone thinks it will be helpful I'll go to the bother of writing out my experience and perspective in comparing the schools.

A little about me to help determine if my perspective may be relevant or interesting for you.... First see advice-please-mba-in-europe-management-consulting-199143.html gives a bit of an overview of my work history etc. Basically to summarise I come from a Sales/Account Management background, I also have entrepreneurial experience. I want to study with the view to transition to management consulting working in Europe for a number of years and eventually return back to Australia. I am married with a newborn so family aspect is a very important aspect for me. I also have a long term interest in entrepreneurship so obviously asked lots of questions about that too.

Cheers,
Jish


Hi Jish, I stumbled upon your post and I'd love to hear about your experience and thoughts on INSEAD and LBS post visit. I would've loved to visit but won't have the opportunity till I actually start my MBA.

My plans are very similar to yours in that I'm looking to transition from marketing into management consulting, work in the UK for 4-5 years and then move back to NZ :) Like you I also have a long term interest in entrepreneurship.

Between LBS and INSEAD which would you pick if you got into both and why?
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Re: European B-School Visits [#permalink]
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xyeek,

Nice to meet you, my wife is a kiwi... unfortunate with the rugby grand final coming up.... but other than that I love NZ haha.

Do you speak a second language? You will need this for INSEAD. Are you looking at applying in the Jan intake to start 2016?

So firstly anyone who gets into either LBS or INSEAD should count themselves luck, they are both great schools. Either provides an ideal opportunity to transition into management consulting, although based on my experience and some inherent differences in the schools I would suggest they have a different approach which may impact your decision making based on what's better aligned to your career goals. For Example INSEAD focus much more on global job placement where LBS networks are heavily London focused.

The biggest thing that stood out to me while visiting was the cultural difference between both the setting and b-schools. I personally always dreamed of going to INSEAD before my trip, after spending 3 days in Paris and visiting INSEAD I came to the conclusion it just wasn't for me (or at least my most ideal school). Maybe its just the whole not speaking French thing, but I just found the people in Paris very rude and difficult to get along with (made me really appreciate the whole Aussie/Kiwi be a mate to everyone cultural thing). Fontainebleau was very nice and certainly had its appeal, but the school itself didn't wow me as much as I expected, maybe I just had high expectations.

LBS is very, well... British... I would imagine you will get a lot of the old boys club types there, don't know but it was just my feeling being there. LBS is pretty much in the heart of London so its expensive for everything (cost of studies, accommodating, public transport, food, breathing air :), you get the drift, it makes Auckland feel like a cheap holiday to Bali). I may be exaggerating slightly but its something that needs serious consideration unless your millionaire granddaddy is paying.

Basically if I were so lucky as to decide between the two I would make my decision based on the following:
1. Do you want to work in London/UK or elsewhere in Europe. For London i'd go LBS, for rest of Europe, MENA or Asia id go INSEAD.
2. 1 year, vs 1.5-2 years INSEAD = 1 LBS =1.5 to 2. Key thing here is actually more chance to do internships, from memory I'm pretty sure its possible to do two with LBS and only 1 with INSEAD. The extra time and flexibility LBS provides would be extremely helpful if not 100% sure about your career plans or which firm you want to work for. With INSEAD you have to be extreemly focused and basically know exactly what you month, 12 months is the blink of an eye in your career.
3. Money money money, LBS is hella expensive. INSEAD is just expensive.
4. Focus placed on multi-culture/internationalism INSEAD is the bomb at this, they really have it down to an art, its very apparent in everything they do.
5. cultural factors, will you enjoy London city life or French countryside (not that important but can make a big difference to your experience and how happy you are short term)

For me if I had to choose I think I would probably pick LBS. Really when it comes down to it either would achieve its purpose I just think I would enjoy the course flexibility and the environment better.

Also don't write off some of the next tier schools, based on my experience Oxford, Cambridge, and IESE are all a lot closer to LBS and INSEAD then everyone makes them out to be. I have also thought a lot about the aspect of what happens if you need a new job after management consulting back home. Everyone in AUS and NZ knows oxford and cambridge are first class, not many managers IN ANZ outside the Banking and Consulting circles actually know who LBS or INSEAD are or the rankings. I think anyone of these schools could provide the immediate career transition if used correctly, after that its all network and branding and I think Oxbridge has a lot to offer in that area. Just a thought for what its worth :)

Hopefully this helps! Keep in touch, I think its great to network with people who are on similar journeys. Should be in NZ sometime early next year too, could possibly even catch up while I am over if your keen :).

Cheers,
Jish
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Re: European B-School Visits [#permalink]
Hey jish,

Thanks for the reply! Sorry I only just got round to reading.

Watching the rugby final must've been interesting at your home ;) Good thing the AB's won aye? :p

Since I posted I've been accepted at LBS and waitlisted at INSEAD so I might end up at LBS without needing to choose in the end. However I'm still hoping INSEAD will offer me a place between now and when I'm due to make the decision to go to LBS.

Yep I'm bilingual in English and Mandarin. Plus I've a smattering of Italian and some French, though this went out the window when I learnt Italian! LBS requires a second language as well, but INSEAD requires a third so I was planning to take up French again since it would be a bit more useful than Italian.

I've been to Paris 4 times and I'm with you there. It doesn't really rate for me and not somewhere I'd like to live. However, if I went to INSEAD I was planning to spend more time on their Singapore campus. Additionally Fontainebleu isn't exactly Paris so that's a plus. What was the school like contrary to your initial expectations? Did you meet current INSEAD students and get to sit in on any classes? The biggest draw for me for INSEAD vs LBS has really been the people. All the INSEAD alumni whom I've reached out to when I was researching schools actually came back to me, and were so helpful, whereas I contacted so many LBS alumni and got 2 responses.

I can totally imagine that LBS would have a lot of the old boys club types. What was the school itself like and what were the students like? Does LBS have that air of internationalism as well even though I agree that no school probably does it better than INSEAD? The cost of living in London is horrendous...accommodation prices are more than what I currently pay for the mortgage on my house!! The millionaire daddy department is probably unable to help as those funds are currently paying for my younger sibling's education so I'm really hoping that I get a scholarship from LBS.

Any idea what the Oxbridge network is like in ANZ? My thought was that by the time I'm ready to return, I'd probably be using the LBS or INSEAD network to land my desired position. According to the LBS alumni who interviewed me, he said that in NZ quite a lot of people tend to confuse LBS with LSE, which he said wasn't necessarily a bad thing because LSE has a great rep as well. To be honest though, having been accepted to LBS I don't think I want to invest the time and energy to do applications to Oxbridge.

Which schools did you end up applying to?

Be great to meet up with you when you're in Auckland :) probably best to PM me on Linkedin and we'll tee up something: https://nz.linkedin.com/in/antoniayeo
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Re: European B-School Visits [#permalink]
jishjohnny wrote:
Hey Everyone,

I just returned a couple of weeks ago from travel in Europe. As a part of my trip I visited, LBS, INSEAD, Oxford Said, Cambridge Judge, IE Madrid, ESADE, IESE. I had either an interview with an adcom/admissions director or attended group information session and took a tour at every school I visited. As an Australia who had only accessed second hand information about these schools I was actually very surprised to see how many differences there were between them and to see how they approached different things. I have also found that while there is copious amounts of information about US schools for those looking at getting into Management Consulting there is not so much information comparing European schools with regards to opportunities for management consulting.

Just thought I would create a post to see if anyone is interested in having me share my experience as a way of contributing back to this forum and perhaps helping others who are looking for information about European schools. If enough people/anyone thinks it will be helpful I'll go to the bother of writing out my experience and perspective in comparing the schools.

A little about me to help determine if my perspective may be relevant or interesting for you.... First see advice-please-mba-in-europe-management-consulting-199143.html gives a bit of an overview of my work history etc. Basically to summarise I come from a Sales/Account Management background, I also have entrepreneurial experience. I want to study with the view to transition to management consulting working in Europe for a number of years and eventually return back to Australia. I am married with a newborn so family aspect is a very important aspect for me. I also have a long term interest in entrepreneurship so obviously asked lots of questions about that too.

Cheers,
Jish


Hi Jish,

Curious, how long did the tour take and what month did you go in? I am planning something similar but only to INSEAD and Oxford. I am still not sure about IESE.

Thank you :)
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Re: European B-School Visits [#permalink]
jishjohnny wrote:
Hey Everyone,

I just returned a couple of weeks ago from travel in Europe. As a part of my trip I visited, LBS, INSEAD, Oxford Said, Cambridge Judge, IE Madrid, ESADE, IESE. I had either an interview with an adcom/admissions director or attended group information session and took a tour at every school I visited. As an Australia who had only accessed second hand information about these schools I was actually very surprised to see how many differences there were between them and to see how they approached different things. I have also found that while there is copious amounts of information about US schools for those looking at getting into Management Consulting there is not so much information comparing European schools with regards to opportunities for management consulting.

Just thought I would create a post to see if anyone is interested in having me share my experience as a way of contributing back to this forum and perhaps helping others who are looking for information about European schools. If enough people/anyone thinks it will be helpful I'll go to the bother of writing out my experience and perspective in comparing the schools.

A little about me to help determine if my perspective may be relevant or interesting for you.... First see advice-please-mba-in-europe-management-consulting-199143.html gives a bit of an overview of my work history etc. Basically to summarise I come from a Sales/Account Management background, I also have entrepreneurial experience. I want to study with the view to transition to management consulting working in Europe for a number of years and eventually return back to Australia. I am married with a newborn so family aspect is a very important aspect for me. I also have a long term interest in entrepreneurship so obviously asked lots of questions about that too.

Cheers,
Jish


Hi Jish,

I would appreciate if you could tell me your experience at Cambridje, IESE and Oxford please.

Best,
Pepo
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European B-School Visits [#permalink]
Hi guys,

sorry for the delayed response been offline for a while now as I already took the GMAT.

xyeek, will add you on linkedIn. Applying this week for Oxford, IESE, and cambridge. Prob wont go for LBS, couldn't afford it unless I got a full scholarship and I don't like my chances given i got 700 on GMAT. Also didn't seem best for my family situation. I'll keep you posted once I hear back after applying :).

Farrous, I traveled for 3 weeks and 2 days, but I had a 6 month old son with me and a mates wedding to attend, so obviously you could do it in far shorter time, just depends how much other travel you want to do while you are there. We went July-Aug, odd time to go for tours because you can't meet students (most are on holidays) or attend classes, that said you get to see a different side of the school and really get to know the staff a lot better (a least I presume). Basically allow 1 day per school. I did IESE and ESADE in one day, they are very close to each other it was manageable but still crammed, better to leave yourself more time rather than not enough. Holla if you need suggestions planning once you decide where you wanna go.

pepo, Oxford, Cambridge and IESE all impressed me beyond their rankings.

Cambridge is a beautiful town, the programme has smaller intakes and a much more intimate connected "hip" feel then any other schools I visited, its "cool" for want of a better word... My experience with admissions/ careers has been a bit hit and miss, I think they have a more fluid approach which has its pros and cons. good if you wanna connect with tech start ups from what I understand. I think the whole Stanford of UK/Europe thing is somewhat accurate (although I have never been to Stanford, lol), if I wanted to create a start up with a tech focus, I'd be there in a heartbeat, I think it would attract the right people for you to network with. I think its more of a niche school and I think its going to stay that way, which is cool if thats what you are looking for.

IESE is very international, with a Spanish/Latino focus. Great campus, really nice. Barcelona is awesome, would take living there over London, Paris/Fountainbleau. Really good exchange programs and internship options (somewhat expected from 2 year vs one year program). Other than its internationalism and dynamic nature its sort of what I would expect from a traditional US school (more rigid in processes, admission etc, case study method etc.). I would choose IESE over Oxbridge if I where in the situation where I knew I wanted to go international but I knew I needed time to figure things out and experiment a little.

Oxford town isn't quiet as nice as Cambridge I would say (from my short visits) but still very beautiful. SBS is very up and coming, I still think their ratings will come up a lot in the coming years as they are quiet new. Given their newness there seems to be a lot of change going on. New Dean is Ex Havard and I think he is pushing for them to compete in top 5, certainly 10. I asked the adcom staff what they hope to change or what they see as a weakness, his answer "rankings"... he then said, " I don't think we are currently where we should be..." very different to answers at other schools. staff have been immensely helpful, best interactions with staff among all the schools I visited. I expected both Oxford and Cambridge to be a little snooty (especially Oxford because I knew Cambridge was a little bit Stanfordish), neither were at all, Oxford surprised me a lot in how down to earth it was and yet how it maintained its history and prestige. certainly a good option if you are looking for a prestigious 1 year program.
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Re: European B-School Visits [#permalink]
Welcome back online :) I wouldn't necessarily write off LBS as a 700 GMAT is decent considering that you're not from an over-represented group. It all depends on your application really for both admittance and scholarships. However if you feel like LBS doesn't quite suit your situation by all means apply to the ones that best fit though it would be nice to see you at LBS (I've decided to go to LBS instead of INSEAD in the end after several weeks of agonising over the decision).

Oxbridge and IESE are solid schools in Europe and since you're looking to pursue consulting as well in Europe, we might end up crossing paths in the UK :) All the best with those apps!
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Re: European B-School Visits [#permalink]
Hi Jish!

Thanks a lot for all the information you shared! How was your visit, experience and opinions after visiting IE Madrid? I'm going to Madrid in December and I'm planning to visit the school.

Thanks a lot!

Nelly

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Re: European B-School Visits [#permalink]
Hello :)
I have recently found your post, while I was turning upward for data around school visit. How was you encounter all together? How could you have been able to you get ready for your visit? Might you want to inform me all the more concerning it.
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Re: European B-School Visits [#permalink]
I read with interest, although the post is no longer a new one.
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