Advice Please! MBA in Europe -- Management Consulting

Question

Hi all,

I would welcome any advice that can assist me to transition to a career in management consulting. To achieve this I expect my best bet is to do an MBA. My preference would be to do an MBA in Europe over the US (I feel they are generally more international and I would prefer to live and work in Europe), although I would not be averse to studying in the US if I could see it getting me to where I want to be. Australian MBA's are a write off in my opinion, I don't even know if there are any top consulting firms that actually actively target from Aussie MBAs.

A little about myself...

Nationality: Australian

Age: 24 (25 at the end of this year)

Uni: Bachelor of Business, major in marketing at an average Australian University GPA 6 on 7 point scale (Not exactly sure what this equates to, used the forigncredits website, it gave me 3.67, but I have read as low as 3.3 in other places, anybody have experience with this?). I completed my degree in an accelerated program (bachelor degree in 2 years), not sure if that helps or hinders?

Experience:
Spent two years doing religious voluntary service after Uni. Over 1 year was spent in training/leadership roles. I think this is an awesome life and career shaping experience, not sure how favourably it would be viewed. Got to work with people all over the world which I loved.

Worked for a little over 3 years as an Account Manager for a small company which distributes IT vendor software qualifications in Australian, NZ and the Pacific. My role is to consult with High schools, Universities, training providers and corporations to negotiate solutions including, software and learning resources to allow students/employees to obtain vendor qualifications. As such I have some expertise in software licensing (Microsoft, Adobe, Autodesk), Education course development consultation (in a variety of areas including IT, Business, Creative Design and Multimedia, and Engineering), Learning and Development and HR. A part of my role has included analysis of opportunities and development of new company solutions such as corporate software skills evaluation and productivity solutions.

Started and managed a small international student agency (ran for two years). The company provided services to international students looking to study in Australia. Had sub-contractors servicing students from a range of countries and in a variety of languages, including English, Thai, Spanish, Mandarin and Cantonese.

I have also recently applied for a job at Accenture (seems to be a half management consulting half contract negotiation type role). Not sure if it will come through at this point.

GMAT: 700+ Expected

Target Schools: I would Love to get into INSEAD, LBS or IESE as I think these are the main European MBAs that MBB or Stratgey& look for (again open to other suggestions). Not so fond of IMD, seems unnecessarily expensive and like everything is going downhill there atm.

Questions:
What are my chances for INSEAD, LBS or IESE? Am I dreaming or have a got a fair shot?
How much influence will my GMAT score have on my chances? Obviously if I have a terrible score I am not going to get in, but given I didn't study at a prestigious university or get amazing results do I need an overly high GMAT to compensate?
Do I need more experience or could I apply as things currently stand?
If I worked at Accenture for two or three years, how that that impact my chances for my target schools?

Also I could get a professional recommendation from a Dean or Associate Dean at a university due to the work I have done for them through my employment. Is this something that would be viewed more or less favourably than a recommendation from a HR Manager in a corporate organisation?

Any other advice would be welcomed.

Cheers, 
Jish

MBADecoder · Answer

Hi Jish,

Welcome to GMAT Club. Its an awesome community and I am sure it will soon become an important part of your application journey.

1. First things first. I agree with you that European b-schools are far more international (~90% international composition) as compared to the US b-schools ( 30-40% international). Add another factor to your criteria- Where do you want to work after the MBA? If its in Europe, MENA, South East Asia, the European schools will you give you a better chance at it.

2. I haven't really heard of Foreign Credits. WES is the most popular service for converting your GPAs - its also recommended by some b-schools, so you may want to use this to get another reading.

3. Work experience- Good

4. Volunteering : I quite like your two year volunteering experience, both with the student agency and the religious outfit - they seem to have given you tremendous international exposure and leadership opportunities.

To answer your questions:
1. yes, you do have a decent shot at all three b-schools. Consider adding Judge and Said business schools to the mix.

2. a 700+ GMAT will help. The top European b-schools do not have as high a criterion as the US b-schools (class average- 720+), for the GMAT scores

3. The average work experience at most European b-schools is 5-6 years. As I understand, you will have about four years of experience by next year, when you matriculate, which is about okay, if you submit a good application. So you can decide to apply this year or next, depending upon the job that you are likely to take up with Accenture. If the role at Accenture excites you, then go for it. The brand name will only enhance your resume.

4. You do not have to get a recommendation from the HR manager of your company, unless you worked directly under her/him. B-schools prefer that your direct supervisor is your recommender. If you have considerable experience in community work ( as you do have), you could also use the option of getting a second recommendation from a person who watched over your volunteering activity.

Hope that helps.

AugustAcademy · Answer

Hi Jish,

Great job so far. European schools trend towards slightly older candidates - so having another couple years experience might help. Having the Accenture brand would also help given the relative lack of other brands in your profile so far.

Although, I say there is a relative lack of brands in your profile, I do think the quality of your work experience is probably something not a whole lot of people can bring to the table - so you would be valued for that. 2 years at Accenture will put the icing on the cake, metaphorically speaking.

That, and a 700+ will put you in the reckoning for the schools you mention.

Best wishes,
Karthik

fxMBAconsulting · Answer

Hi Jish,

I like that you have the volunteer work and the start-up in your background - I think those are neat extras that schools will appreciate (depending on the light you cast them with).
There are three other factors: one is your undergrad - and since it was from a pretty ordinary school let's give it a 5/10 (were you in the top 20%...5% of your class??).....your GMAT...we still don't know...your work experience: sounds like you were doing high level sales...is that right? I think part of your app is going to hinge on what you achieved at work.

What are my chances for INSEAD, LBS or IESE? Am I dreaming or have a got a fair shot? 
I would need to see your resume and we would need a GMAT score to seriously evaluate your chances at these schools. Depending on your work experience and GMAT....the answer is: Maybe

How much influence will my GMAT score have on my chances? Obviously if I have a terrible score I am not going to get in, but given I didn't study at a prestigious university or get amazing results do I need an overly high GMAT to compensate? 
You need a strong GMAT 720+ is possible - but let's just see what happens and then take it from there - you can always resit the exam or curate your school choices to fit whatever GMAT you get

Do I need more experience or could I apply as things currently stand? 
I feel like that with 3 years of experience you're in a good place to apply to b-school in the US - in Europe candidates tend to have a little more experience.

If I worked at Accenture for two or three years, how that that impact my chances for my target schools?
You'd then have 6 years of work experience but since you graduated uni quickly - you would still be relatively young. Getting a brand name like Accenture on your resume will help but again, I'm curious to know where you're working now.

Also I could get a professional recommendation from a Dean or Associate Dean at a university due to the work I have done for them through my employment. Is this something that would be viewed more or less favourably than a recommendation from a HR Manager in a corporate organisation?
You need recommendations from your boss and possibly a client you have worked with extensively (and who knows you well). The only time the HR lady should be writing your recco is if she is your boss and you work with her in the HR department. If the Dean is a client and knows you well he could do a recco.

jishjohnny · Answer

Firstly, thank you all for your responses! Each of them cast a different light on my situation which provides some additional insight or at least confirms some of my assumptions. A couple of bits of additional information in regards to some of the questions raised. My plan is to work outside of Australia for a number of years post MBA. 1st preference would be Western Europe, I would also be interested in working in Eastern Europe, US, MENA, Asia, although I'd imagine not for longer than a 2 month to two year gig. I am married and have a newborn, so preference would be to settle back in Australia or New Zealand after 5-9 years or so, although I would imagine with the experience I would have at that point it would be easy to manage. My other big passion is Entrepreneurship, so after some time in management consulting I imagine I will start my own business/businesses. I did a thorough translation of my GPA using both foreign credits and WES and both gave me a GPA of 3.75 in the US scale (upgrade, winning!). Given they both came out the same I would assume that is accurate. I am not sure what rank I would be within my class as my university didn't publicise such information, based purely on my interactions with classmates (the accelerated program is a relatively small group) I would assume I would be in the top 10% very easily, and possibly top 5% but I'm not sure. Is this the sort of GPA that they would look for or is it still a negative for me? Also do the European MBA admissions generally prefer GPA in a US format? I realised my paragraph about recommendation letters was a little confusing, sorry guys

. HR managers are L&D coordinators/managers are usually the key people I work with among my corporate clients. University deans/associate deans or heads of subjects are usually the key people I work with among my tertiary academic clients. I was planning to get one recommendation from the CEO of my current employer (he has been the person I report to for most of the time I have been employed, although this changed several months ago as there is new middle management) and one from a client. I could also get a recommendation from the president of the religious volunteer team I was in, he knows me well and would talk me up

. Any suggestions as to what would be best? I can get a really good recommendation from any of them, although I would think that my CEO and the Volunteer President would have the most to say, In either case the big question is who to get? Thoughts? Also regarding my current employment and pre MBA employment plans I still currently employed in the Account Management job (its basically solution sales at a reasonably high level). I am getting bored of my job so I need a change. I can see three potential options moving forward that I may be able to obtain in 2-6 months time and work at for the next 1-2 years prior to starting my mba: Option 1 - Accenture - Pros: Branding, management consulting experience Option 2 - Middle Management Current Employer (managing the academic sales and operations team, 4 staff members would report to me, but that could decrease to 3 initially and then potentially grow to 5 pretty easily) - Pros: Managerial Experience Option 3 - Get a job in Europe, similar role to what I am in now - Pros: International experience Purely from a top tier MBA admissions perspective which would help me most? Do any other thoughts come to mind regarding the decision? Also is there some specific b-schools in the US that I would be a likely candidate for (given my current circumstance and assuming I get a solid score on the GMAT) that would give me a high probability of landing a management consulting job (bain, McKinsey, BCG or Stratgey&... I actually really like Strategy& from my discussions they seem to provide awesome options for family travel when assigned overseas projects)? I guess I could use this as a back up plan and apply immediately if things don't work out at Accenture or I don't get a promotion to management. Thank you again for your input and again any additional thoughts, perspective or suggestions welcomed

fxMBAconsulting · Answer

Just to answer some of your questions: 
Reccos - sounds like the CEO/boss would be a good one (his title will not pull as much weight as how well he is able to speak to his experience interacting with you and his observations)....this is usually a whole conversation in and of itself that a consultant has with a client - but the next recommender in line would probably be a client. I'm less keen on the religious organization leader...again depending....

Without a gmat I'm not going to start advising you on US schools. If you get a consulting job with accenture that would be nice - you could do that for max another 2 years and then apply.

Given the complexity of your situation I highly suggest you reach out to a consultant and get your situation reviewed. Seeing a real resume will produce better advice. All the firms do a free consult (there is no obligation to purchase services so honestly...why not) - you can reach out to me - mbaMission is also a serious firm.

Best,
Leah

jishjohnny · Answer

Also are technical IT certifications (e.g. Microsoft, HP, Cisco etc ) considered beneficial or relevant for MBA admission?

fxMBAconsulting · Answer

no.. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" />

jishjohnny · Answer

Slight update and seeking additional guidance...

Currently planning on applying for programs in the January round to start sep/oct 2016.

Things at my current employer have gotten worse or at least are not moving forward in a positive direction, so I feel it is better to get a 12 month contract else where and be moving forward then have 12 months of not really achieving much at my current employer. I applied for several jobs and am expecting to get at least one of two offers in the next couple of weeks. Assuming they are both an option I am curious to hear opinions on how each would effect my chances at getting into a top tier school and gaining employment post-MBA at an MBB firm.

Job 1: Inside sales partner manager - Microsoft. (9 month contract that may lead to long term position)
Pros: Microsoft branding on my resume. Work seems interesting, slight change of responsibility (i.e. supporting and managing the channel that makes the sales rather than directly making the sales and managing clients). 
Cons: less pay. could be seen as a step down i.e. Inside sales role vs heavily face to face sales role (although channel management may be seen as a plus?)

Job 2: Senior Account Manager - Seek (the careers website) (12 month maternity leave contract)
Pros: Good money, Job title upgrade (account manager to senior account manager), exposure to a new industry (clients generally blue collar, mining, engineering etc.)
Cons: Branding may not be so well recognised in Europe or US, Work seems a bit repetitive

Does anyone have any thoughts or wisdom they can share on how this decision may impact me long term given my plans for MBA and MBB?

Advice Please! MBA in Europe --> Management Consulting

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