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Re: In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found tha [#permalink]
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Dear Friends,

Here is a detailed explanation to this question -
seofah wrote:
In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.


A. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the

B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor

C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor

D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the

E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the


Concepts tested here: Parallelism + Grammatical Construction + Idioms + Awkwardness/Redundancy

A: This answer choice fails to maintain parallelism between "the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables" and "the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels"; please remember, any elements linked by a conjunction ("or" in this sentence) must be parallel. Further, Option A uses the needlessly wordy phrase "with none of", leading to awkwardness and redundancy.

B: This answer choice incorrectly joins two elements in a list - "passenger trains" and "railroad timetables" - with a comma; please remember, if a list has two elements, they must be joined with a conjunction. Further, Option B uses the needlessly wordy phrase "with none of", leading to awkwardness and redundancy.

C: This answer choice fails to maintain the idiomatic construction "neither A nor B", as it omits the word "neither"; please remember, “neither A nor B” and “either A or B” are idiomatic uses and are only used when referring to two elements; A and B must be parallel.

D: This answer choice fails to maintain parallelism between "the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables" and "with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels"; please remember, any elements linked by a conjunction ("or" in this sentence) must be parallel.

E: Correct. This answer choice correctly maintains parallelism between "the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables" and "the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels". Further, Option E correctly joins two elements in a list - "passenger trains" and "railroad timetables" - with conjunction ("and" in this sentence). Additionally, Option E avoids the idiomatic error seen in Option C, as it does not employ the "neither A nor B" construction. Besides, Option E is free of any awkwardness or redundancy.

Hence, E is the best answer choice.

All the best!
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seofah wrote:
In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.


A. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the

B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor

C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor

D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the

E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the


The question is based on Construction.

The last part of the sentence mentions the restrictions that are not part of driving automobiles and sleeping in tents. There are the restrictions of trains and timetables on the one hand and the formalities, expenses and impersonality of hotels on the other. So, there must the conjunction ‘and’ between the two aspects of trains to indicate that they are two aspects of one thing. Similarly, there must be the same conjunction between the three aspects of hotels. There must also be a conjunction between the aspects of trains and the aspects of hotels to separate the two. This function is ideally performed by the conjunction ‘or’.

Option A is wordy. The preposition ‘with’ is needlessly repeated. So, Option A can be eliminated.

The presence of the adjective ‘none’ makes the conjunction ‘nor’ redundant. So, Option B can be ruled out.

Option C has a similar error. The difference is that the conjunction ‘nor’ is redundant after the preposition ‘without’. So, Option C can be ruled out.

Option D distorts the meaning. This option rules out the restrictions of trains but includes the restrictions of hotels. Since the meaning thus conveyed is illogical, Option D can be ruled out.

Option E corrects the error in Option D by leaving out the preposition ‘with’. This option conveys the meaning that vacationers found that driving around and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature without restrictions. Therefore, E is the most appropriate option.

Jayanthi Kumar.
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E for me


rest all use "nor" and "with" wrongly


by the way: what is this GMAT-SET ? (is it some online data-store/PDF of questions ) . Please forward the link/pdf .

thanks
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IMO E

In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving
automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at
their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or
with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.

A. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the - "with" is awkward
B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor - "with" is awkward
C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor - "nor" did not fit here
D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the - "with the" missing the ||ism
E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the - correct
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Re: In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found tha [#permalink]
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From IDIOM list offered in SC aristotle book:

"Restrictions Of " is not idiomatic and it should be "restrictions on".

so all ACs has diomatic error?
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Re: In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found tha [#permalink]
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seofah wrote:
In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving
automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at
their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or
with the
formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.
A. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor
C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor
D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the


'Allowed them to enjoy nature' WITHOUT the restrictions should be used here. Hence, A and B are out
Now between C,D, and E, without nor is clearly incorrect as it is a double negative. So C is out
Now between D and E, do we need the with before? Without the restrictions or the formalities sound good to me!
Therefore IMO, correct answer should be (E).

OA please to corroborate.
Experts any good takeaways from this question?

Cheers
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Re: In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found tha [#permalink]
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souvik101990 wrote:
In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.

A. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the

B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor


C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor


D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the


E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the


there are two different things attached with 'or'
1)the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables
2) the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.

we have to choose the choice which connects these two parts properly
A. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
with none in second part is required

B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor
and omitted

C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor
parallelism issue

D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
same as A

E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the
correct
ans E
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Without restriction X or (restriction) Y

With no X or (no) Y
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Re: In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found tha [#permalink]
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In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving
automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at
their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or
with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.
A. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor
C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor
D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the
E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the

We need two clauses
1> without the restriction of passenger trails and railroad trouble.
2> without the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels

B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor => B is wrong because you need (X and Y) structure
C. without X nor Y => it should be without X and Y (without X or Y) - Introduces double negetives
D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the

E => correct
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Re: In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found tha [#permalink]
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mikemcgarry, @e-gmat, and GMATNinja

Can we use 'nor' without neither like we use 'or' without either in some sentences?


Thanks
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In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.

A. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the - meaning error - the sentence intends to say that by driving automobiles and sleeping in tents, vacationers are able to enjoy nature and tour at their own pace without any restrictions of trains or formalities of hotels. However, the way it is constructed right now, the sentence conveys an illogical meaning that “vacationers enjoy nature and tour at their own pace with the formalities of hotels”.
B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor - idiom error - “nor” should be preceded by “neither” while writing down the elements of a list.
C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor - same as B
D. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the - meaning error - Having without restrictions and with formalities as elements of a list implies that vacationers do not have restrictions of trains but have to face the formalities of hotels.
E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the-Correct

Answer E
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Shiv2016 wrote:
mikemcgarry, @e-gmat, and GMATNinja

Can we use 'nor' without neither like we use 'or' without either in some sentences?


Thanks



Hello Shiv2016,

I am aware that you asked this quite sometime back. I am not sure if you still have this doubt. Here is the answer nonetheless. :-)

IMHO, nor can be used without neither when used as comma + FANBOYS.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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Re: In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found tha [#permalink]
Would you please explain why "none" and "nor" in option B are double negatives?

From what I understand, this is the list of meaning of this structure "with...or..."

1. without A or B = without A nor B = without A and B = without (A and B): We don't have A and we don't have B.

2. without A or with B = without A and with B = We don't have A but we do have B

3. With no A/ none of A, nor B - it looks like daagh (in the first post of this thread) thinks it's double negative. Would you please explain why?

Thank you very much!
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Re: In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found tha [#permalink]
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shabuzen102 wrote:
Would you please explain why "none" and "nor" in option B are double negatives?

Hello, shabuzen102. I will do my best to illustrate why using both none and nor in choice (B) makes no sense, in terms of meaning and grammatical structure. Let us take a closer look at the sentence and the answer in question.
souvik101990 wrote:
In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.
B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor

In this with none of construct, the negation carries into any item that follows, and importantly, the second item in that list is surrounded by commas, indicating that a third item will follow. Note the difference:

1) with none of A, B, or C
2) with none of A or B, nor with C

It is not that I would never use 2) above, but that the with none of tag has to exhaust itself before nor can enter the picture, and that does not happen in option (B). As written, the phrase could be read as,

B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, with none of the restrictions of railroad timetables, nor with none of the restrictions of formalities...

I think you would agree that something is off in that last phrase, and that that something is the extraneous nor. You can call it what you want, but in any case, it does not belong.

I hope that helps. Please let me know if you have further questions.

- Andrew
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Re: In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found tha [#permalink]
MentorTutoring wrote:
shabuzen102 wrote:
Would you please explain why "none" and "nor" in option B are double negatives?

Hello, shabuzen102. I will do my best to illustrate why using both none and nor in choice (B) makes no sense, in terms of meaning and grammatical structure. Let us take a closer look at the sentence and the answer in question.
souvik101990 wrote:
In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.
B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, railroad timetables, nor

In this with none of construct, the negation carries into any item that follows, and importantly, the second item in that list is surrounded by commas, indicating that a third item will follow. Note the difference:

1) with none of A, B, or C
2) with none of A or B, nor with C

It is not that I would never use 2) above, but that the with none of tag has to exhaust itself before nor can enter the picture, and that does not happen in option (B). As written, the phrase could be read as,

B. with none of the restrictions of passenger trains, with none of the restrictions of railroad timetables, nor with none of the restrictions of formalities...

I think you would agree that something is off in that last phrase, and that that something is the extraneous nor. You can call it what you want, but in any case, it does not belong.

I hope that helps. Please let me know if you have further questions.

- Andrew


Dear Andrew MentorTutoring,

Thanks so much for your detailed answer. It makes a lot of sense. Just to confirm though, both (1) and (2) are correct right?
1) with none of A, B, or C
2) with none of A or B, nor with C

Would you please explain then why C is wrong? Is it just because of the lack of "the"? It doesn't seem too convincing to me if it's just the absence of "the" :dazed :(

Thanks!
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shabuzen102 wrote:
Dear Andrew MentorTutoring,

Thanks so much for your detailed answer. It makes a lot of sense. Just to confirm though, both (1) and (2) are correct right?
1) with none of A, B, or C
2) with none of A or B, nor with C

Would you please explain then why C is wrong? Is it just because of the lack of "the"? It doesn't seem too convincing to me if it's just the absence of "the" :dazed :(

Thanks!

Yes, both 1) and 2) above could be used to write a grammatically correct sentence. If you want examples, I could provide some, but to address your question about this sentence, let us take a closer look at option (C):
souvik101990 wrote:
In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.

C. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor

A neither/nor construct could work here with with, as in, with neither A nor B, but a without at the head of the phrase creates this hard-to-follow drivel:

without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables nor without the formalities...

What are we to make of nor without, in light of the fact that each word on its own negates something?

I hope that helps.

- Andrew
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Hi GMATNinjaTwo GMATNinja generis hazelnut mikemcgarry TheEconomistGMAT GMATGuruNY , VeritasKarishma, ChiranjeevSingh, Skywalker18, egmat

In the above question, Isn't the "or" in option E Illogical? Shouldn't "And" come instead of "or" because "driving automobiles and sleeping in tents " is eliminating both the bottlenecks?


In the early part of the twentieth century, many vacationers found that driving automobiles and sleeping in tents allowed them to enjoy nature close at hand and tour at their own pace, with none of the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or with the formalities, expenses, and impersonality of hotels.


E. without the restrictions of passenger trains and railroad timetables or the
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